Update v4.1.0.40

[Shadrach]

I tested with the Steam version as well:

Code: Select all

  Directory of f:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\The Operational Art of War IV\Scenarios\Hypothetical Studies
 
 19.12.2019  00:39           358 646 Anonymous Heroics (PBEM).SCE
 19.12.2019  00:39           382 596 Blitzkrieg 1950.SCE
 19.12.2019  00:39           205 063 Deep Battle 1930.SCE
 19.12.2019  00:39           162 385 Mobile operations.sce
 19.12.2019  00:39           583 678 Revisionist War 1937.SCE
                5 File(s)      1 692 368 bytes
 
  Directory of c:\Users\Stian\Documents\My Games\The Operational Art of War IV\Scenarios\Hypothetical Studies
 
 19.12.2019  00:39           358 646 Anonymous Heroics (PBEM).SCE
 19.12.2019  00:39           382 596 Blitzkrieg 1950.SCE
 19.12.2019  00:39           205 063 Deep Battle 1930.SCE
 19.12.2019  00:39           162 385 Mobile operations.sce
 19.12.2019  00:39           583 678 Revisionist War 1937.SCE
                5 File(s)      1 692 368 bytes
 

Still getting duplicates. But note the last one - Revisionist War. It's not duplicated, and I've noticed this in the other lists as well. Something is deeply wrong with the code that makes these lists.

[Hellen_slith]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Still, I'm currently in a state where I mistrust the game to load the files that are needed to work like intended.
These problems started at least a year ago and are still not solved.
A pity that it has come so far but it is as it is.

You are not alone in your thinking.
These are the types of issues that turn people off.
And those are bad things.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game and am thrilled for a new patch.
But for me, I don't want to have to perform a computer ballet,
just to get a freaking game to work.

Not my problem. I'll stick w/ my .21 patch until it all gets worked out.

Or until TOAW V. YMMV!

[Shadrach]

My biggest problem at the moment is how things are communicated (or maybe the lack of it), and that the burden of proof when it comes to bugs seems to *always* be on the customer. Now I like doing detective work (as you might tell), and I have the tools to do it, but it tends to get really frustrating in the end when I'm simply not believed.

The way it should work is that when a user reports a possible error, every effort should be made to reproduce the issue on an installation as similar as possible, so that it can be fixed on the developer side. Instead what we get is a bunch of workarounds and "it works on my machine so obviously you're doing it wrong".

When trying to reproduce an issue, you can't just base it on your own non-standard custom installation. If the only files users have available are the base install and the patch, any testing must be done with this as a base, not some other installation that for some miracle reason works because it's set up in a "special" way. And don't tell users to install the original CD because most users these days *don't* have even a install CD [8|]

[Hellen_slith]

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

My biggest problem at the moment is how things are communicated (or maybe the lack of it), and that the burden of proof when it comes to bugs seems to *always* be on the customer. ... it tends to get really frustrating ....

... what we get is a bunch of workarounds and "it works on my machine so obviously you're doing it wrong".

....any testing must be done with this as a base, not some other installation that for some miracle reason works because it's set up in a "special" way. And don't tell users to install the original CD because most users these days *don't* have even a install CD [8|]

Sharing your pain here, I *do* have an install CD (for which I paid #100# for, and for the hard manual. And yet now, the CD is obsolete, and the manual ... well, it is what it is.

For me, it is a great game. Hell, I have from TOAWII discs all the way up to now, and it is disconcerting now to me that we have download / uninstall / reinstall and do all sorts of contortions to get the "new stuff".

I *PAID* for TOAW IV, out the wazoo at #100, now it is on sale in "STEAM" for twenty bucks. That's ok, I took my chance, I am glad for it, but at the same time, the support now is sorely lacking. In the mean time, I play my version for all that it is worth, and that is A LOT. I have enjoyed Bob Cross's CfNA scene, the FitEs, all the D21s, for hours upon hours.

All I am saying here is, that it is a good purchase, for me and for those who like this sort of thing. For others, they may not like it so much, for many reasons, and I understand that.

Let's hope that TOAW V will fix a lot of things that we need.

YMMV!

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith
Let's hope that TOAW V will fix a lot of things that we need.

I've seen this sentiment expressed a lot on this forum, and don't understand it...why should we have to wait several years for another paid version to fix things broken in the last version we paid for? Sorry, that's not right!

How about the developers fix the bugs in this version via timely and free patches?

[jmlima]

ORIGINAL: 76mm
...

How about the developers fix the bugs in this version via timely and free patches?

I think it needs to be said, as unpleasant as it is, the ability might just not be there.

[BigDuke66]

The ability is surely there, I see a lack of coordination & communication that is the main problem.
Larry said in a different thread that there is no coordination as what to play & do for the Beta testers.
So what can one expect if all just play along and likely do not clean the system and start with a fresh installation of TOAWIV + patch to see how it works.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: jmlima
I think it needs to be said, as unpleasant as it is, the ability might just not be there.

You might well be right, but then I guess we can stop talking about TOAW V as well...

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: jmlima
I think it needs to be said, as unpleasant as it is, the ability might just not be there.

You might well be right, but then I guess we can stop talking about TOAW V as well...

As long as the game functions being added by Bob are not packaged as TOAWV and are instead handed out when each is completed we are safe from TOAWV. I never want to see a TOAWV. TOAWIV.x is just fine with me.

[jmlima]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
...
So what can one expect if all just play along and likely do not clean the system and start with a fresh installation of TOAWIV + patch to see how it works.

I did just that, guess what, I cannot save units in the editor.

Also, if you look at this thread people are being told to install a version that is not even available for download on the matrix webpage to try and solve the issues they are finding.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: jmlima

I did just that, guess what, I cannot save units in the editor.

Are you using Windows 10?

Also, if you look at this thread people are being told to install a version that is not even available for download on the matrix webpage to try and solve the issues they are finding.

But a version they should have received upon purchasing the game.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Lobster
As long as the game functions being added by Bob are not packaged as TOAWV and are instead handed out when each is completed we are safe from TOAWV. I never want to see a TOAWV. TOAWIV.x is just fine with me.

I'm glad that Bob is working on new features, and frankly, would be happy to pay for a new game if there were significant number of new features. But in the meantime it would be nice if someone could focus on wrinkling out some of these annoying malfunctions with TOAW IV (file issues, importing issues).

I suspect that this kind of thing is not as simple as it sounds, given the age of the code and the number of hands that have probably worked on it over the years, it could be a real mess...

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Lobster
As long as the game functions being added by Bob are not packaged as TOAWV and are instead handed out when each is completed we are safe from TOAWV. I never want to see a TOAWV. TOAWIV.x is just fine with me.

I'm glad that Bob is working on new features, and frankly, would be happy to pay for a new game if there were significant number of new features. But in the meantime it would be nice if someone could focus on wrinkling out some of these annoying malfunctions with TOAW IV (file issues, importing issues).

I suspect that this kind of thing is not as simple as it sounds, given the age of the code and the number of hands that have probably worked on it over the years, it could be a real mess...

Tamas said it was not in bad shape at all. Some of the things that are currently not functioning properly were working just fine 12 months ago. Going back to see how it worked then and recreating that method in the current build should not be a problem short of someone not bothering to do it.

[jmlima]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: jmlima

I did just that, guess what, I cannot save units in the editor.

Are you using Windows 10?

...

No. 7 64bit.

[biddrafter2]

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

Instead what we get is a bunch of workarounds and "it works on my machine so obviously you're doing it wrong".

And this is why QA and tech support should never, ever, be performed by the game developers. The limited resources for this game are obvious.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Lobster
As long as the game functions being added by Bob are not packaged as TOAWV and are instead handed out when each is completed we are safe from TOAWV. I never want to see a TOAWV. TOAWIV.x is just fine with me.

I'm glad that Bob is working on new features, and frankly, would be happy to pay for a new game if there were significant number of new features. But in the meantime it would be nice if someone could focus on wrinkling out some of these annoying malfunctions with TOAW IV (file issues, importing issues).

I suspect that this kind of thing is not as simple as it sounds, given the age of the code and the number of hands that have probably worked on it over the years, it could be a real mess...

Tamas said it was not in bad shape at all. Some of the things that are currently not functioning properly were working just fine 12 months ago. Going back to see how it worked then and recreating that method in the current build should not be a problem short of someone not bothering to do it.

Really wonder if the age of the code is not creating all these kind of issues hard to fix. I remember the black screen or some others. Drivers have changed. CPU, GPU have changed. Vulkan is near. Matrix has this new Archon engine perhaps just for this. Help developers to concentrate on the fun aspect of game creation without losing too much time on one engine.

I have seen games with wonderful engines but absolutely no fun to play. TOAW IV is fun to play but it lacks a new engine.

[ncc1701e]

And maybe the lack of communication comes from the secret development of TOAW V using the Archon engine. Who knows...

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Vulkan is near

Only if they want to lose 90% of their player base. [:'(]

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Vulkan is near

Only if they want to lose 90% of their player base. [:'(]

Maybe, maybe not. In five years, when everybody has moved to new GPU, it will pretty much become the standard. Porting the current code could be a nightmare for a small team.

[rhinobones]

With Update v4.1.0.40 I’ve lost the ability to move ships and land units as “groups”. Is there a setting I need to adjust?

Regards