Axis rampage.

[tyronec]

Usual start to game.
Poland and Denmark fall on T2.
Netherlands on T3.
Belgium on T4 (I think).

There were a few CLEAR turns during the winter and Axis pushed on into France.
The Allies sent 6 Corps to the BEF, plus the French built a Tank. However with a rapid Axis advance and continuing to attack during the snow France was effectively out of the game before they could do much.
Option for Vichy came in June.
British lost 1 Corps, Axis 3 Infantry Corps to Tank counter attacks.
Would say there is not much between our skill levels, I don't think the Allies could have done anything to stop this.

Axis slaughtering a lot of MM in the sub war, being followed around by the carriers as per norm.
For a new ploy they invaded Iceland before it flipped. Allies tried to intercept the invasion fleet but failed which is very much the percentage chance. So using that as a refueling base and a threat to Canada which now requires a garrison. The carriers did do some sub damage in port.
The only realistic counter against this is to invade Iceland before Germany gets there, there is no way the UK can counter invade before Barbarossa.

It is now the start of July.
No Vichy. The French capital is in Metz. So no convoys to the French and effectively their fleet is going to run out of fuel and be impotent (serious bug here). There are not many French units left so it is Germany and Italy against the UK.

Invasion of Spain next, Italians are attacking Algeria and threatening Suez. Germany has a threat against the UK and Spain.
If Axis take Spain (and from there Gibraltar is easy) OR Algeria (and from N. Africa then Gibraltar) OR Egypt then the game is won. The UK cannot protect the S. Atlantic convoys if the Italian fleet gets out and Russia cannot survive if the Germans are coming up through Iran (plus all the extra oil they would have).

Also a German surface fleet off the coast of Africa, which can threaten:
S. Atlantic convoys.
Invade Africa.
Invade the Red Sea
Invade Kuwait/Iran/Iraq
Invade Iberia

[battlevonwar]

Good to see new strategies and tactics. Cold weather a few turns or an extended Summer for France really can dictate a game's tempo.

[tyronec]

Spain falls, too many Panzers and the UK is unable to provide much support.

I resigned here; IMO Axis have won the game. Well played by my opponent.
UK will lose the southern convoy route, they can probably hold out in the UK and Egypt though possibly Axis can invade Iran/Iraq but it might be risky.
They don't need to because without UK support I don't think Russia can hold out on their own.

Am not sure I did a lot wrong here.
Did some damage in France and held out as long as possible.
Sank a couple of subs and a good part of the Italian fleet.
Should have lasted another turn or two in Spain.

Can the Allies hold out against a skilled Axis player who gets a couple of CLEARS during the first winter, any thoughts from the community ?
I have certainly done over France in enough time to take Spain and Greece in other games and the win was assured.

[tyronec]

Casualties.

Have inflicted some damage but not enough to slow the flood.

[AlvaroSousa]

What turn did he take out France?
What turn did he invade Spain?

[tyronec]

France was invaded during CLEARS during the winter, he took out France in June, though didn't force Vichy.
Spain invaded in July.

[Almeron]

Lille was taken on Turn 06, during very early clear turn, so -25 PP for France. Turn four was also a clear, that was Belgiums conquest.

But tyronec, I was in a really bad shape!

You destroyed four german infantry corps, and several other where badly beaten. Italian navy lost 2 battleship, and 2 german sub. I had only four armored corps, and 3 other under construction.

My goal where to beat only the British, even try to invade the main isles, and prepare for 1942, when the US, and Russia will attack.
I was not in a shape to even think about Barbarossa in 1941. I did a very bad job conquering France, with such huge looses. And oil shortages start to be an issue


But to summarize my insights:

Early clear turn:
a huge deal. One clear turn means Belgium fall, the second one is Lille. If that's happening in 1939 that's a really blow for allied side.

Naval invasions:
with no range limits are also an issue. One, or two german division could just sail, and make the British player mad. Canada, Island, and even the Middle east is threat by those anoying little units.

Spain:
It's to easy to conquer it, and taking Gibraltar mean italian navy plunder British MM. I believe more key cities, spread around the country (La Coruna, Sevilla) could help Spain to fight more, and commit the british to protect it.

[tyronec]

I still think you were fine for Barbarossa.

UK has to retreat to the UK and Egypt, so you don't need to repair any land or air units and can build a Panzer a turn for the next few moves.
That should give you 10 or 12 for Barbarossa.
And I think it is enough to crush Russia.

Don't attack Russia in '41 and probably Axis lose.

[Almeron]

Invading Russia need huge forces. At least 10 armour, 30 infantry corps. Axis minor not really count, max as garrison, when germans move inside. A bad invasion just gives the nextra experience, and took Germany away to finish off the brits.

[battlevonwar]

Barbarossa is really necessary in 1941. It can be done with a weak Army cause the starting units in the East really cannot hold much. The Russians are already pretty high War Entry and producing a lot. You have to start pushing them back if you have a delay strategy there.(by '42 the Axis forces should be strong enough to Push in the East) I wonder how long on Spanish/Portugal/Vichy/N.Africa Resource production the Axis replace those losses incurred? I imagine that could be 50-60 PPs there in 20 turns is 1000 plus Production? That replaces the losses had by Almeron probably...If he gets it all soon enough and doesn't delay. With Greece that's helpful and blockades UK forces them into a corner if you hold the Islands with air. You can threaten Egypt via Naval Invasion so they're locked down to defend.

Should Axis be able to use the loop?

[Almeron]

Maybe it's better to attack, but I was curious about that timeline. Capture the British isles and prepare against US-USSR invasion.
A very interesting scenario. Next time, I'll try it.

[tyronec]

Maybe it's better to attack, but I was curious about that timeline. Capture the British isles and prepare against US-USSR invasion.
A very interesting scenario. Next time, I'll try it.

MM is trying the '42 Barbarossa in our active game. I think both of us came to the conclusion it is not an optimal approach, if I had thought you were going to do that I would have played on.
Not sure if you would be able to take UK in this game, my next move was to retreat everything to the UK and Egypt. UK had not lost much so would have had a substantial garrison.

[MagicMissile]

You can have a stronger Germany/Barbarossa in 42 then I had but to give the Russians so long time to build up a optimized army most obvious a huge air force seems to me to be a big no no. Well I do not have a good experience of a 42 Barbarossa anyway [:)]

/MM

[kennonlightfoot]

Anyone else finding under 05 version Axis subs are unstoppable?
Once Axis has about 4 sub groups in action they take out about 10 merchants per turn average.
This means most of UK production has to go to making merchants and escorts.
Also found the old technique of using CV's to take subs out no longer works.
Using air to counter is also weakened and easily avoided by subs.
Escorts don't seem to be that good of counter either. No convoy combat occurs with more than 10 escorts no matter how many you have.

I haven't tried it but the numbers seem to indicate that if the Germans turn to producing subs as fast as their shipyards can and couple it with maximizing their subs skills they could shut down both the US and UK trade.

[battlevonwar]

Kennonlightfoot, I playing as Allies in a game where the opponent has pursued a heavy U-boat Strat. It is working quite well and I did some errors early on not preparing for it. Are you teching?

Also meanwhile are you preparing your Russians to hold more frontage at the expense of this strategy? I would be more bold with my Russians if the Axis are going heavy West. Take more casualties hold more land and look for '42-'43... By then your XP will take off and the Allies will over-come a good portion of the U-boat threat. Or should... Also perhaps build a Strategic Bomber and aim for the ports, put them in Iceland for more reach. Smack a ton of Merchant Marine in the build early preparing for this.

[Almeron]

Oh, with unlimited air strike, and bleed out your MM, britain's fate will come to and end. In 1941 of course. I belive without 41 Barbarossa, Brittain will fall, before US, and the soviets enter.

[kennonlightfoot]

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

Kennonlightfoot, I playing as Allies in a game where the opponent has pursued a heavy U-boat Strat. It is working quite well and I did some errors early on not preparing for it. Are you teching?

I haven't played an opponent yet who went with subs. I was just testing some Allied strategies against the AI and realized that their subs were slaughtering merchants at a frightening rate. I started building escorts and merchants as fast as I could and started heavily investing in tech for detection and escorts.

That never caught me up with the rate they were killing merchants. UK basically had to shut down convoys accept where necessary. Even after I conquered all of Germany and France they were still killing merchants.

I also found that my old defense under version 04 using air and CV's no long worked at all.

[AlvaroSousa]

As the UK you need to build 3 things at the start of the game.

Land units, escorts, and merchants... when tech gets to around 1941-1942 things start evening up and subs start taking damage.