Fall Weiss II - WIE 14.0 - (Ready for Download)

[Elessar2]

I'm not sure how it is possible to operate an HQ to a railhead which hasn't repaired to the 5 level necessary. [&:] Perhaps I am missing something. With C&C level 2 the 4 MP's seem adequate, however.

I'm still pretty sure that armor needs a +1 movement point increase across the board. Forced marching doesn't help me to engage an enemy which stubbornly remains just one hex out of reach. [lemme see if I can grab a screenie or 3 from my last game]

[still have zero idea why any images I paste into the [img] thingie don't show up here...doing them as url's]

Tank Bog 1

Tank Bog 2

Tank Bog 3

Yes, I am well aware of the marshes to the S of Kiev there. And the ZOC's in question [denoting the orange hexes where I could go if and when the units in question are destroyed or weakened] But note that in screenie #3, even after I cleared away the offending units I still couldn't reach the crossroads NW of the enemy tank and infantry. Two of my tanks thus played no part in that turn's battles when you'd think in 1-2 weeks' time [depending on how you interpret the turn sequence] they'd easily be able to move down there. The movement allowances for armor in War in the East puts WIE's to utter shame. Note it is an additional 4 spaces to the Black Sea from where that enemy armor is...

Hubert for some odd reason has consistently nerfed armor/mech's movement range, typically only 1 more than most (non motorized) infantry. At any rate I have modded all armor/mech to +2 from where they were (infantry is now +1 across the board as well, +2 for the western allies), will see how that tests out, tho I await your changes (even if it means another weekend wasted farting around w/ all of the given parameters).

A-T. It just seems like to me that, in the late game, there are two different types of ground units: tanks, and targets. This way infantry can stand a chance in the late game.

I also never spring for either rockets, or artillery--what was the rationale for nerfing arty tech to just one level? [this wasn't your decision but Hubert's]

At any rate I anticipate your changes.

[teddybbeer]

Hi.

For some reason after the fall of Poland Danzig event (i think) seems to crash my game.
Latest GOG version and latest Fall Weiss download, both freshly installed.

[crispy131313]

HI Teddybbeer sounds like you are probably installing my mod over the community pack. See posts #691 - 696 where someone was having the same problem.

try putting the files here C:\Users\username\Documents\My Games\Strategic Command WWII - War In Europe\Campaigns.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

I'm not sure how it is possible to operate an HQ to a railhead which hasn't repaired to the 5 level necessary. [&:] Perhaps I am missing something. With C&C level 2 the 4 MP's seem adequate, however.

I'm still pretty sure that armor needs a +1 movement point increase across the board. Forced marching doesn't help me to engage an enemy which stubbornly remains just one hex out of reach. [lemme see if I can grab a screenie or 3 from my last game]

[still have zero idea why any images I paste into the [img] thingie don't show up here...doing them as url's]

Tank Bog 1

Tank Bog 2

Tank Bog 3

Yes, I am well aware of the marshes to the S of Kiev there. And the ZOC's in question [denoting the orange hexes where I could go if and when the units in question are destroyed or weakened] But note that in screenie #3, even after I cleared away the offending units I still couldn't reach the crossroads NW of the enemy tank and infantry. Two of my tanks thus played no part in that turn's battles when you'd think in 1-2 weeks' time [depending on how you interpret the turn sequence] they'd easily be able to move down there. The movement allowances for armor in War in the East puts WIE's to utter shame. Note it is an additional 4 spaces to the Black Sea from where that enemy armor is...

Hubert for some odd reason has consistently nerfed armor/mech's movement range, typically only 1 more than most (non motorized) infantry. At any rate I have modded all armor/mech to +2 from where they were (infantry is now +1 across the board as well, +2 for the western allies), will see how that tests out, tho I await your changes (even if it means another weekend wasted farting around w/ all of the given parameters).

A-T. It just seems like to me that, in the late game, there are two different types of ground units: tanks, and targets. This way infantry can stand a chance in the late game.

I also never spring for either rockets, or artillery--what was the rationale for nerfing arty tech to just one level? [this wasn't your decision but Hubert's]

At any rate I anticipate your changes.

To be fair without with the unit density of this game, if the Tanks could not move the game forward it would turn into WWI.

I have thought about the movement, and after some consideration I've adjusted downward the cost of Motorization for the following units:

Mechanized Division
Mechanized Corps
Tank Division
Tank Corps

For Germany the cost is reduced from 30% to 15% of the units cost. For all other nations the cost is reduced from 20% to 15%. Perhaps it will seem more viable to upgrade some of these highly mechanized units moving forward.

[Elessar2]

Aye to the density; I'm just worried that, w/o sufficient MPP's (on both sides), we'd end up with what often happens in World in Flames, an eastern front with huge holes you could drive a Maus through. But will withhold judgement until after the first winter/spring turns...

OK, I can dig reducing the cost for tanks and motorized; could be rationalized as having the infantry in the armor units all being carried by halftracks (vs. trucks).

Still gonna playtest it all with my mods, if that's ok.

[teddybbeer]

Works, thank you, it was Western Poland to Germany event what gave error.

[Elessar2]

Hey, playtested some of your new changes, and some of mine.

Found an outright bug: DE asking Germany if they wanted to spring for a corps in East Africa--which of course doesn't exist on this map. A script that snuck in from Global I'd assume.

Anyway, wanted to discuss Malta. I made the mistake of ignoring Crete, mainly because in the Global scenario there is a supply event which works against the Allies, not the Axis. Welp August '41, and I getting whipsawed by both supply scripts with Rommel & Co. at the gates of Alexandria, all towns and ports constantly at 1 supply and getting attrited to death.

This is despite winning the Battle of the Med with the Regia Marina: he has 2 damaged BB's and a sub, everything else is at the bottom, incl. all 3 RN CV's; all my BB's are alive (tho down below 5 strength). I tried blockading & bombarding Malta in the hopes of shutting off the script, to no avail.

I thus have a suggestion, two options. #1, if the British want to pork Axis supply down there, they have to do the actual, you know, dirty work, and not rely on a random device to win the theatre for them. Blockade the ports, if they have sea superiority, and bomb them with Strat and/or Maritime bombers. If they lose the naval war against the Regia Marina the option to blockade at least will thus have been taken off the table. Which means a tradeoff of putting a ground unit in Malta, vs. an air unit (making it easier for the Axis to invade Malta if the UK uses the latter).

2nd option would be to craft a unique unit just for Malta, an air unit with decent ground defense and enough range to hit the North Africa ports, no movement capability (so it can't be moved elsewhere). Not sure which unit slot to use for that tho, which is the main issue there. [maybe Maritime Bombers, modded for the UK only, but they can buy some normal MB's from say Canada to cover the Atlantic shipping lanes--IF the AI can be arsed to upgrade them of course]

Speaking of silly random devices, we have the Taranto raid. It took 8 months past the historical date for it to finally trigger, and as said by that time all RN flattops were toast. They should be obligated to actually risk moving the carriers near the Italian mainland, in which case the damage is probably not different (2-3 points, CV or event; in this case a CA lost 2). None of this nuked from space preposterousness.

Likewise w/ the Norway/Denmark invasions; in reality the former cost the Kriegsmarine fairly dearly; here they again get a free ride out of what should be a somewhat dicey campaign [in past editions of SC I've had little problem taking them out myself].

I like the new buffed German production.

I apparently have lost many of my garrisons in the build menu, AND I also noticed a number of infantry divisions coming online in '44, which means I can't build and get them earlier. Will see, but even with my minor allies I may not be able to cover all partisan spaces AND have enough left over for garrisoning France. [this may have been intentional on your part of course]

And just a wish for some of the decision events; for example, there was one which had the Swiss shooting down German planes, but didn't make it clear that if I didn't launch an official diplomatic protest that I would lose some national morale points.

Too early to see how much of a difference my A-T tweak makes.

[crispy131313]

Hi Elessar, thanks for these notes, here is some feedback:

Italian East Africa - This theater was already marginally included in the campaign, the Allies for example get the opportunity to invade via decision, otherwise an Italian Corps will break out into occupied Egypt if the opportunity presents. I simply have expanded on this a little. The German Motorized really does not have an impact at all, except is an option for Germany to boost Italian NM. In the notes to the decision it is clear that there is no unit spawned (whereas in World Map a German garrison appears). On the same note if Germany defeats Egypt due to the map restrictions they usually just move onward, but in reality occupied Egypt could potentially still be bordering Allied territory, so if Egypt is not adequately garrisoned the UK could invade.

Malta - If you are able to reduce Malta's garrison unit below 5 strength the script will not fire, that is a poor option but one that is available. In the end Malta will fall against a sustained effort, you can effectively knock it down to 1 supply with siege warfare, there are strategy posts on the forum to take out Malta in 1-2 turns. It can take a bit more effort in FW2 if the British spend and send reinforcements via DE (represented by a more experienced Anti-Air unit), but its very much on purpose. Even if there were a hybrid unit that could bomb the Axis the AI would never get it right. In the end it's only 1 hex to work with, the fighters and everything else that were stationed there have to be abstracted. I've made it very difficult on Axis supply in North Africa, but it's mostly because there was always a tendency for players to just send an extra Tank Corps or more bombers than historically there and just blow the Allies out of the water as they can not match what Germany can send.

Crete - Too bad to hear it caught you by surprise! It shouldn't be too hard to knock out and that will reduce your supply problems 50% north of Tobruk.

Taranto Raid - Hmm agreed that may be a bit silly if there are no carriers in the Mediterranean. I'll see if that can be changed.

Norway - The cost of the Norway invasion is not lost on me, if you read the notes you will see that you are sacrificing the Bulcher Heavy Cruiser as well you would also get a full strength Infantry Corps should you not invade (representing the manpower that is otherwise being sent to Norway). Even if agree to the planned invasion of Norway, if the Allies intervene in the turn between (DOW Norway) you will receive the Heavy Cruiser and Infantry Corps as if you had selected (NO).

Garrisons/Divisions - Germany exceeds their build limit with quite a few units via decision mid-game the manpower is not meant to be replaced fully with rebuilding. The Infantry Divisions in que are there to help with the defensive end game, as many of the Infantry Corps that were over the build limit and destroyed late game will not be able to be rebuilt, Germany will have to make more use of Infantry Divisions from 1944 onward to help form defensive (albeit weaker) lines, if they are indeed on the defense.

Decision notes - I try to keep the notes as accurate as possible with the implications of each event, the Swiss aircraft one for example does clearly state the NM loss.

[Elessar2]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Taranto Raid - Hmm agreed that may be a bit silly if there are no carriers in the Mediterranean. I'll see if that can be changed.

Esp. if it fires more than once, which it did in my test run yesterday.


Russian Front: Woo-eee, I'd sure like to know what you gave the Russians! Playing at Expert, +2 Spotting, +1 Exp, +20% MPP, June '42 rolls around, after a very quiet spring--and all heck breaks loose right before I planned to launch my summer offensive. Tanks and shock armies oozing out of every corner of the front. I kill 3-4 of them a turn, they just keep coming at me (toggled off FoW, and yet another line of them is seen forming in the middle of the map to crash against my lines). These are the kinds of forces I'd expect to see in mid-late '43; basically no chance for greatly expanding east and defeating them even if I manage to sucker a few of the AI's units into traps. Also note that my subs have been doing a number on the lend-lease lines, averaging c. 50-100 MPPs sunk per turn for close to a year now, and Rommel has broken into Syria & Iraq.

For some reason unlike your other editions the Egyptians remained PO'ed at me after I thought I had liberated their country, 2 partisan spaces I have to cover.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Taranto Raid - Hmm agreed that may be a bit silly if there are no carriers in the Mediterranean. I'll see if that can be changed.

Esp. if it fires more than once, which it did in my test run yesterday.


Russian Front: Woo-eee, I'd sure like to know what you gave the Russians! Playing at Expert, +2 Spotting, +1 Exp, +20% MPP, June '42 rolls around, after a very quiet spring--and all heck breaks loose right before I planned to launch my summer offensive. Tanks and shock armies oozing out of every corner of the front. I kill 3-4 of them a turn, they just keep coming at me (toggled off FoW, and yet another line of them is seen forming in the middle of the map to crash against my lines). These are the kinds of forces I'd expect to see in mid-late '43; basically no chance for greatly expanding east and defeating them even if I manage to sucker a few of the AI's units into traps. Also note that my subs have been doing a number on the lend-lease lines, averaging c. 50-100 MPPs sunk per turn for close to a year now, and Rommel has broken into Syria & Iraq.

For some reason unlike your other editions the Egyptians remained PO'ed at me after I thought I had liberated their country, 2 partisan spaces I have to cover.

I really did not boost the Russians that much if I remember correctly. The ability to build units on a division scale allows the Soviets to quickly achieve solid defensive lines (Divisions are cheap too), and the Axis have to adjust and no longer just attack across the entirety of the Eastern Front, but rather be objective based. Attack Moscow or Stalingrad for example, trying to advance everywhere at once will likely mean attrition and eventual retreat.

A big theme of the game is USSR matters; the vanilla game used to notorious for allowing Germany to take all other key objectives such as closing the Mediterranean and then attacking USSR all out, maybe it still is that way i'm not sure, but I know in FW2 USSR will slaughter Germany if they don't prepare and go all out. In 1942 Germany still has the experience advantage and national morale advantage, and likely the military doctrine advantage (if Germany kept up their advantage with warfare research) but the manpower advantage has slipped away. That is still enough advantage to keep driving into the motherland and on key objectives.

I've only won 2 of the 4 most recent matches I played vs the AI with the same setting you are using (one decisive victory and one tactical victory). Creating a particularly hard scenario vs the AI is the only way to really enjoy a solo game in my opinion. I've played many PBEM matches as well which have seen both sides win, so I think the balance is right.

Keep in mind the changed victory conditions and game end dates too, Germany can still win the game even after the tide has turned by playing a successful defensive end game.

[Elessar2]

Going back to my game when I have more time--it's just going to be a slog, and I generally tend to dislike such games. I can foresee this being one of those "300+ Russian units killed" kind of games [99 so far 1 year in]. I didn't mention the huge July 1941 cauldron that I enveloped in the W Ukraine in July '41: 4 armies, 6 corps, & a division, all of which were either lost for good or took full cost to bring back. That's why I was shocked to see what I faced in June '42. The Siberian reinforcements in the script I examined boggled my mind: 2 HQ's, 3 inf. corps, 3 inf. armies, 2 shock armies, 1 tank corps, 1 tank army, 1 fighter, 1 tac bomber. By itself it would wax the entire Italian army in one shot, and quite possibly the British as well for that matter.

Wikipedia: " This estimate proved wrong, as Stalin transferred over 18 divisions, 1,700 tanks, and over 1,500 aircraft from Siberia and the Far East." OK, 18 divisions. Corps = 2, Army = 4. You thus are transferring over 28 divisions, by my count [tanks and air by themselves don't seem problematic]; some sources dispute these numbers, note:

The best source on these Soviet mobilization realities is Walter S Dunn, "Hitler's Nemesis" and "Stalin's Keys to Victory". He gives the actual months of call up for all Soviet rifle divisions and brigades with their mobilization district, then the later times they were actually assigned to front line armies and sent to the front. He also has manpower details of the pools they came from, including the sizes of the military classes by birth year, the pre war reserves pool, and the like.

Table 5.17 pages 78-79 shows such truth as there was behind the "Siberians" narrative. The Ural military district raised 14 divisions with dates assigned to front line armies running 1 October, 1 November, 12 December. The Volga military district raised 14 more with dates 1 November and 13 December. The Siberian military district raised 12 with dates 6 in December 1941, 4 in February 1942 and 2 in March 1942.

OK, so perhaps your event reflects ALL such reserves, fair enough, and I fully acknowledge that they were substantial.

I will have to contest your supposition that Italian ship repair was substandard and expensive. Exhibit A is ]the Taranto Raid: The Littorio took 4 months to fix 3 torpedo hits, Caio Duilio 5 months for 1 hit, and while they didn't spend much effort to fix Conte di Cavour, fuel shortages proved to be a bigger issue towards the end of Mussolini's reign anyway. Making it ~75% of the total cost would be more reasonable; I just think you run into a reducio ad absurdum scenario with your change; ton for ton it is always going to be easier & cheaper to repair than to build from scratch. Plus Italian income [& for my game at least Production Tech] isn't that great to begin with, and by itself would explain the slow pace of repairs on the Conte di Cavour.

[crispy131313]

It's not explicitly saying that Italian ship repair was substandard, just that when I looked at all of the factors I only felt that USA/UK/Canada were the nations that I was going to give the discounted repair value too. If there was a middle setting between 50% discount and 0% I would have considered a wide range for different nations, but it is only 1/2 of 0 as options in the editor. A lot of these changes are on top of other changes. In the mod Italy receives 2 additional Battleships, an additional submarine unit, as well an optional Light Cruiser which helps offset the change from the base game.

As for the Eastern Front, sorry to hear you're abandoning the play-through because it's feeling a slog fest. The AI (on either side) receives extra units which through play testing were necessary to achieve some historical results. When playing the base game in Europe I don't think I've ever had to play through 1944, it's just too easy to win, part of the reason I mod this is to have a challenging solo game.

You may however enjoy PBEM, you will find a lot more maneuverability on the Eastern Front in 42'. The game is fully tested through PBEM by myself and from much feedback from others.

[Elessar2]

Welp, thought there was a % toggle for unit repair somewhere. I'll nonetheless be able to have most of the Regia Marina up to 100% by the time of any Torch landings in any event...

Oh, I'm giving it the ol' college go, not to worry--found a way to cut off a dozen of his units, plus I want to see what my 3 new Anti-Tank units do, as well as what giving infantry A-T does against tanks in general. [so far the USSR A-I iirc is up to level 2] I was mainly caviling about how things must be done to compensate for the AI, a long-standing design conundrum not unique to SC of course.

I'll likely be trying to get a 6 player global game going here sometime in the next month.

[dhucul2011]

Hey Crispy:

Returning to your MOD after a while and its tough on "normal" for sure.

1. The Italian morale drop on war entry works well and Italy starts getting their asses handed to them in NA (very historical). However, I think there may be a couple too many British units in Egypt? I count four Corps in 1940? Maybe replace a couple of Corps with divisions?

2. In Vanilla WIE HQ Leeb would appear in 1940. You have removed this?

3. One thing I have never liked about Vanilla WIE is reference to "Algeria". I have only ever read that it was referred to as "French North Africa", especially as it encompasses Morocco as well. Thought about changing this?

Fantastic work.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: dhucul2011

Hey Crispy:

Returning to your MOD after a while and its tough on "normal" for sure.

1. The Italian morale drop on war entry works well and Italy starts getting their asses handed to them in NA (very historical). However, I think there may be a couple too many British units in Egypt? I count four Corps in 1940? Maybe replace a couple of Corps with divisions?

2. In Vanilla WIE HQ Leeb would appear in 1940. You have removed this?

3. One thing I have never liked about Vanilla WIE is reference to "Algeria". I have only ever read that it was referred to as "French North Africa", especially as it encompasses Morocco as well. Thought about changing this?

Fantastic work.

Glad to see your playing again, as for toughness it'll have some more changes once i finish version 6.0, including a bit less cluttering of units and take the Soviet AI units particularly down a notch.

1. The maximum number of Infantry Corps that are scripted or already on the map in Egypt is 3 through 1940, so the extra is the UK reinforcing this region via transport which they have a tenancy to do, which is OK since the Axis player usually sends extra as well. I will change one of the 2 AI scripted Infantry Corps to a division though.

2. Leeb is still there in the que (Sep 1, 1940)

3. It seems a lot of work to change the reference to Algeria in every part of the game, probably no change for now.

[dhucul2011]

1. September 1940 and there are two UK armies, 6 UK corps and 2 UK tank corps in Egypt. Yikes! I don't think the UK should have that much manpower at this point? I would suggest changing all of the corps to divisions and change one of the tanks to a division?
2. Yep, I saw it one turn after. [:'(]
3. Gotcha. Just a thought for the future.

Thanks!

[Elessar2]

I'll just say that the AI likely will need them, once Rommel & Co. arrive.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: dhucul2011

1. September 1940 and there are two UK armies, 6 UK corps and 2 UK tank corps in Egypt. Yikes! I don't think the UK should have that much manpower at this point? I would suggest changing all of the corps to divisions and change one of the tanks to a division?
2. Yep, I saw it one turn after. [:'(]
3. Gotcha. Just a thought for the future.

Thanks!

One of those Armies is almost certainly the B.E.F. that the UK sent there after France, I don't see another way it could be any other. The Allied Armour is represented by 2 Tank Corps for the AI, rather than only 1 because I found without it they were unable to push the Italians back enough to have some sort of historical flow, I had tinkered with the second being a Tank Division but more often than not it wasn't enough.

[crispy131313]

Well here is the expanded list of changes, I think this versions is just about done. Any other thoughts?

- Some minor fixes (i.e. Decision notes, pop ups)
- Gibraltar fortress to begin with +1 Anti-Air
- Industrial Technology reduced to single chit
- German Industrial Technology increased to 175 MPP
- Increased German Mines from 20 MPP to 30 MPP
- Amended USSR Garrison scrips for Moscow, Stalingrad, Leningrad
- Smoothed out many national morale scripts over several turns rather than in one large swing
- Reduced cost of German winter warfare preparations
- Reduced cost of German Decision to send modern Tanks to Romania
- Fixed Long-range Transport bug
- German preparations for Fall Blau will also include an Artillery unit in the unit script
- Leningrad can no longer be plundered
- Warsaw plunder increased to 75 MPP
- Max strength of Finland towns reduced to 5
- Finland's base industrial modifier increased from 50% to 55%
- Increased German Industrial modifier from 5% to 10%
- UK Mechanized Divisions built limit reduced from 2 to 1
- UK Infantry Corps built limit reduced from 12 to 11
- UK Tank Division built limit reduced from 4 to 2
- USA Tank Division build limit reduced from 5 to 3
- USSR Infantry Division build limit reduced from 12 to 10
- USSR Infantry Corps build limit reduced from 30 to 25
- USSR Infantry Army build limit reduced from 30 to 25
- USSR Tank Division build limit reduced from 10 to 8
- Germany Infantry Division build limit reduced from 10 to 8
- German Mechanized Division build limit reduced fro 4 to 3
- Italian Infantry Division build limit reduced from 4 to 3
- Italian Tank Division build limit reduced from 3 to 2
- Germany will deploy an Infantry Division and Garrison at Berlin when Smolensk in Allied hands (1943-)
- Germany will deploy an Infantry Division and Garrison at Berlin when Paris is in Allied hands (1943-)
- UK & USA (AI) "catch up units" will only trigger if Paris is still in Axis hands at end of 1945
- Removed 1 USA (AI) Strategic Bomber from unit script
- Increased German Imports from Pro-Axis Romania to 20 MPP per turn
- Decreased German base industry to 30%
- Increased variability of German negotiations with Greece via decision event by 5%
- German Imports from Switzerland requires France to be surrendered
- New Unit event for USSR to re-organize the Long Range Air Force 1942
- USSR Strategic Bomber now available for purchase March 1942
- Added some supply events to represent Allied bombing of Berlin and Ploesti before this can be accomplished in game
- Amended UK (AI only) unit events 1939-40; -5 Infantry Corps, -1 Heavy Cruiser, -1 Light Cruiser, -1 Battleship, +3 Infantry Divisions
- Amended USSR (AI only) unit events 1939-42; -11 Infantry Corps, - 5 Infantry Army, -1 Shock Army, -3 Tank Army, -3 Tank Corps, -3 HQ, +3 Infantry Divisions
- Amended USSR (AI + PBEM) Unit events for 1939-42; -3 Infantry Corps, -1 Infantry Army, -1 Fighters, +2 Infantry Divisions, +1 Calvary Corps, +1 Strategic Bomber
- Reduced cost of Stalingrad Factory Workers decision event and changed units deployed from Infantry Corps to Infantry Divisions
- Amended arrival date of UK (AI) Strategic Bomber in Egypt from 1940 to 1941
- Amended unit scripts if UK invokes the Anglo-Portuguese Alliance for a UK Infantry Division to deploy as Portuguese instead at Lisbon
- Amended preparation for Sledgehammer/Overlord decision for the American and British Infantry Corps to deploy as Special Forces instead if Overlord is chosen

[crispy131313]

Here is the dropbox link for the newest version

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rhj496u6geaa ... 1.zip?dl=0