Tyronec vs BrianG. 12.03

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: tyronec
If you manage to cut through to Kirov does that block all rail supply to the North of the map or is there another supply source anywhere ?

Not quite - all rail hexes on the edge of the map are permanent supply sources in the latest version. This includes 148,0 north of Syktvar and 114,0 and there is a rail line further to the north of Kirov that would connect them to the northern fronts of the USSR without going through Kirov.

[tyronec]

I thought the southern bonus to the rail supply modifier had been patched out quite a while ago?

I think the formula being used is the one from 1.12.00 Appendix A, the one I posted in the main Forum area. Checking the map it makes quite a difference North to South.

[chaos45]

Map looks reasonable to me....only note I would make is don't stand on the open plains if you can help it. The soviets should defend the final terrain lines towards the extent of your advance....if you manage to push those you should use those same lines to anchor your defense.

[tyronec]

MUD in the South, BLIZZARD due next turn in the North - which is the last SNOW turn.

Static front as usual North of Moscow, a few battles each way.

In the Center the Soviets retreat 3 hexes and we follow up.

Do get a pocket in the South, there were no serious fortifications to cut through and get further than expected. My plan to not attack with Panzers went out the window, some of them were needed.

Had a Soviet army surrender from normal combat, assume that is a bug.

[eskuche]

Ouch. Had this happen with an airbase as well. If Brian doesn’t post it might be helpful to do so with a save on tech support for morvael.

[tyronec]

Start of turn.

Blizzard in the North, Snow elsewhere.

Soviets have pocketed a few units up North, no attacks for their Southern hook so the only explanation I can think is I must have forgotten to move some units after an attack last turn.
Think am going to lose something here, if I pull back the furthest away unit it will likely get herded back again, maybe it is best to leave it and at least it has good terrain and a fort to survive a bit longer. Blizzard this turn followed by several Mud is not good.
The one positive is it is tying in a lot of Soviets to try and get a surrender. I thought about pulling back a little up here last turn but decided against it because more Soviets up here means they are away from the critical areas in the Center and South.

Around Rostov things are looking better for Axis. Pocket from last turn held (no Soviet attack against it), 13 units including a Cav. Corps. The way looks open to advance past Rostov and avoid assaulting across the river against the heavy fortifications.

[chaos45]

The soviet breakthrough is pathetically weak you should be able to break both hinges...the cav in your rear will be annoying but if they are out of supply in mud allows you to shift forces while keeping your men from being isolated. The key thing is not let Divisions surrender being beaten up and suffering losses keeps them in the field and able to rebuild much faster.

Cant see the outside of the pocket in the north but even a couple extra regiments should allow you to contain the soviets and save your divisions. Just something to contain those cav corps movements. Also your counterattacks should isolate those cav corps. An allow you to rebuild a line with just the cav in your rear.

[tyronec]

The soviet breakthrough is pathetically weak you should be able to break both hinges...the cav in your rear will be annoying but if they are out of supply in mud allows you to shift forces while keeping your men from being isolated. The key thing is not let Divisions surrender being beaten up and suffering losses keeps them in the field and able to rebuild much faster.

Cant see the outside of the pocket in the north but even a couple extra regiments should allow you to contain the soviets and save your divisions. Just something to contain those cav corps movements. Also your counterattacks should isolate those cav corps. An allow you to rebuild a line with just the cav in your rear.

I was too worried about the weather to try and hold the line, with Blizzard this turn Soviets might just remake the pocket and hold it during the mud turns. Have left one unit in the heavy woods and pulled the rest back, just routed the Cav Corps away. Even losing just that division would be OK if it ties up a lot of Soviets during the mud turns.

Big break out in the South, is looking like the Soviets may abandon a lot of the South of the map and concentrate on holding the Center, but we shall see.
Kill 101k this turn, some heavy damage against weak screening units plus the pocket eliminated.

[tyronec]

Early April so still a couple of turns of full mud.
We are upgrading to latest patch.

In the North my abandoned division is sitting things out and hoping for a rescue.

Around Rostov continue to push forwards a little, there are quite a few infantry brigades in the Soviet front line that are easy to rout. Have pocketed a division this turn.

My desktop died on me last week and had to get a new power supply, which thankfully was able to install and get working on the 4th attempt. Tried to do a turn using my old laptop which was a painful experience, I used to use it for WITE a couple of years back but for some reason it seems even slower than before.

[chaos45]

The Russians need to use the mud to escape in the south if possible. You are already over the river they have no chance to defend the far the south now. He should retreat the mountains and Stalingrad basically....an I really don't see how he can hold Stalingrad due to how advanced you already are before summer.

[tyronec]

The Russians need to use the mud to escape in the south if possible. You are already over the river they have no chance to defend the far the south now. He should retreat the mountains and Stalingrad basically....an I really don't see how he can hold Stalingrad due to how advanced you already are before summer.

You are right, am hoping it will cost him.

Start of turn after Recon.
Snow in the Central Zone, mud elsewhere. What I was hoping for, chances are you will get at least one 'clear of mud' during April.
I can only see 11 Soviet Cav. units and 8 Guards so am thinking there may be a lot of reserves somewhere.

Looks like the Soviet strategy is to continue to keep the pressure up North of Moscow and hold the river line from Stalingrad to Voronezh and Tambov. At present am thinking to have one Panzer army attack East between Tambov and Moscow. The other three will break out from the Rostov area, one prong pushing down to the Black Sea and the other North through Stalingrad to force the Soviets to abandon the area around Voronezh.
Will send some more infantry up to the North in the hope of keeping as many Soviets up there as possible, will likely try a small offensive somewhere as a distraction.

The one unit pocket held from last turn. Will try for a couple of pockets, one West of Stalingrad - using the mud as a defensive buffer. Not sure if it will work but will also try something South of the river, again using the mud to limit Soviet counters.

[tyronec]

End of turn.
Can't manage the Southern pocket - just had to rout them away.
Hopefully the Northern one is secure.
Have cut the Rostov-Stalingrad rail line which well mess up the Soviets moving units around in the area.

Very high risk for the Soviets to hang on to Rostov now, one random turn of good weather and chance of a big pocket.

[redrum68]

Very nice use of the weather zones though I always found the way they work to be a bit strange. I feel like weather should be a bit more dynamic.

Both Rostov and Stalingrad are looking pretty risky for the Soviets to hold much longer.

[tyronec]

I feel like weather should be a bit more dynamic.

Yes, WITE2 has a much improved weather system with more subtle variation and by hex instead of the big block zones.

[joelmar]

I was in a similar position not long ago in one of my games, and I wreaked havoc on the Soviet player in great part because of freak winter turns during mud.

Where are your railheads? I don't believe Stalingrad is in immediate danger because of the big German supply leash in that area and combined with mud can hold quite a while if the Volga can be manned adequately, even with freak snow turns. Because of that, going through that thin corridor between Don and Volga won't be easy, I would go for an assault of the Don with a strong infantry force at Kletskaya west of Stalingrad instead and then exploit the bridgehead with panzers, but it helps a lot if your railhead is in the Surovikino area.

That said, I agree your position has a lot of advantages, and that there is a clear danger for a big Rostov pocket now. Again main problem is supply south of the Don. Good thing it's 1942 and airbase resupply is possible

The north pocket looks good. I don't know what kind of defensive CV you have, but if it holds, 2 guards divs is always a very nice prize. [:)]

[tyronec]

Have marked the rail lines.

All MUD, but in the center the front line was being held by Brigades and they mostly routed when attacked.

Clear half the pocket near Stalingrad.
Continue to push South near Rostov and make a small pocket. Most of the Soviet units seem very weak, though it is a bit of a lottery attacking them as sometimes they have a reasonable CV and sometimes they just rout.

Next turn is the last of full MUD.

[chaos45]

Looks like he is trying to run, think he waited a turn to long though as its going to cost him. relied on mud to keep you from attacking, but 1 CV isn't the same for every unit even in mud.

[tyronec]

Yes, all MUD this turn but still caught a few more units, though they are small.

Next turn is May, 50/50 turns, prediction is CLEAR in the North, MUD Center and South.

Set up to try and rescue my 18th Army division, not sure what it's prospects are.

Tambov - Advance another hex or two against Rifle Brigades, and also take Litebsk by assault. Looks like they will pull back from Voronezh.

Stalingrad - Clear the remains of the pocket and get my guys all lined up on the Weather border in the hope of a CLEAR in the North.

Rostov Soviets have left very weak units and manage to pocket 3 more, just 1 MP short of cutting the rail line to Rostov.

I don't see any fortifications in Stalingrad so just maybe I can make some progress there, weather permitting. There are a lot more good Soviet units up North than down here but I think there strong forces somewhere that I am not spotting.
Am concerned that there could be an attack down from Ryzan to take my Tambov offensive in the rear, not having played into '42 before just not familiar with what the Soviets can do. From the map it looks like they are intending attacking the line from Moscow northwards.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: tyronec
are a lot more good Soviet units up North than down here

I have seen this phenomenon many times - including now in our opponents in the 2x3+ team game where that AAR is now. Even in solo games where there are no player barriers to overcome. The north has a lot of units to defend Leningrad which fall back on to shorter lines after it falls. They tend to have a better blizzard farming guards. The south is the inverse with lines now getting longer especially as they bulge outwards into the Caucasus. For whatever the reason Soviet players seem to lag (a lot) this change on the ground and not redistribute North to South (or fast enough). End result is a strong North defending something less important than the weak South is defending.

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Will send some more infantry up to the North in the hope of keeping as many Soviets up there as possible, will likely try a small offensive somewhere as a distraction.

This is a nice touch. It's like the old magician's trick. Look over here, there's nothing to see over there