Supply system broken?

[Bitburger]

[&:]

[eskuche]

Your supply rail need is HALF what's needed in the other game, so no surprise there. The question is why is that so. Are your units chronically deficient?

[Bitburger]

that's what i am asking, why is it so much lower? Deficient in what way?

[Bitburger]

deficient in which way? Attacking in blizzard, rather than defending in summer, so i don't think i'm burning more supplies. Toe vs ideal toe are similiar.

[redrum68]

Wow that seems really low supply need even compared to the start of the game in 41. My guess looking at this screenshots is low air force movement and usage and appears low fort building.

[eskuche]

We've been discussing this in discord, but we think it's not whether your planes are on-field per se but whether their airbases have moved thus necessitating additional rail movement of supplies and fuel from previous stockpiles to new ones. You'll notice another difference: only 60,000 supply is FREE. That means the rest is inaccessible, but I don't really know what that means currently. It could be that they are in previous town stockpiles but are now cut off from the rail system. It's turn 60 so I assume you're running away and thus might have some rail cut off.

[Bitburger]

The stockpile of supply vs the supply free is much different. So i am leaving supply behind as i pullback? Can i do anything to fix that?

[joelmar]

@bitburger

were both of these games started in the same version?

[Bitburger]

No, i started game with Model1950 with first beta of 1.12. With Tyronec, we started with 1.12.04. Both games are on 05 since it was released. But problems with supply i first noticed with .05 .

[joelmar]

Ok, interesting. I was thinking maybe the game against Model might have started under 1.11.03. But there were also many changes between 1.12.00 and 1.12.03, maybe something that happened in those patches could cause that? Those differences simply don't make sense at first sight.

When you say you first noticed with .05, do you mean that you simply didn't notice the problem before, or if you know for sure the problem didn't exist before, like when you were playing in version .03?

[Bitburger]

thought maybe i didn't notice it but no it started with the patch up and got worse over a few turns. unfortunately i don't normally take screens to show. but bozo first reports the same problem at turn 62 after the patch too, maybe he has screens?

[joelmar]

Certainly a potential very important problem that needs some close investigation. We have 2x3+ examples, but it started in 1.11.03 as you know, so probably not the best candidate to assess the problem thoroughly.

[thedoctorking]

ORIGINAL: joelmar

Ok, interesting. I was thinking maybe the game against Model might have started under 1.11.03. But there were also many changes between 1.12.00 and 1.12.03, maybe something that happened in those patches could cause that? Those differences simply don't make sense at first sight.

When you say you first noticed with .05, do you mean that you simply didn't notice the problem before, or if you know for sure the problem didn't exist before, like when you were playing in version .03?

I have a game at turn 107 that started with 1.11.00 and converted to 1.12 about turn 60. My global supply provision in that game is 19%. Last turn my units requested 51107 tons of supply and got 17,761. I have another game that started under 1.12.00 and is now at turn 61. My global percentage there is 22%, units requested 48,653 and received 23,200 tons. In both games, I am advancing slowly and most units are within ten hexes or so of their depots. We haven't had much occasion to move airbases in the latter game; in the older game I have moved airbases a couple of times in the last dozen or so turns but haven't noticed any dramatic drops in supply delivery after moving them. I have my air bases on rail lines in all cases.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

This is a pretty grim supply picture. At some point you need to spend the 100 AP and reduce unit fort building to 0. Armament production needs to be reduced as soon as a stockpile is building up. Interestingly enough, I see very little repercussions for the Soviets so far. It's September 42 and my troops are consistently below 50% supply but MPs and fighting power are pretty good.

[eskuche]

I did some quick tests at some point and it seems that fatigue reduction by supply consumption is a crapshoot. Sometimes you can get rid of most of your fatigue even at low consumption. I had 2 x 60 fatigue motorized units, one of which was attacked four times in the enemy turn and still ended with 0 fatigue.

[Bertram]

Also running into this problem in my current game, playing as Soviet in december 42.

Dived into the numbers, an it seems there is definitely something odd going on. According to my Event Log I get 151,000 Resources. I have 228 HI.

As I understand it, each HI uses 500 resources to produce 500 Supply (this used to be 1000 => 1000 in the original, but is in feb. 2007 reduced to 500 => 500). There is a % modifier on this number. For the Soviets it is 130 in 1942. That would give an output of 650 supplies for 650 resources for each HI point. So with 228 HI points, I would be able to turn 148,200 Resources into 148,200 supplies.

But the log tells me:
90,915 tons of supplies produced in 228 HI centers (90,915 available)
31,977 supplies not produced because of resource shortages
90,917 tons of resources consumed by supply production.

It is unclear why the 151,000 tons of resources are reduced to 90,915 tons, or where the remaining 59,000 tons go.

In another report, the production screen, it gives me a Resource Store of 5,109,575 (125,400). No idea what these numbers mean, but it is clear I can not use these 5 million plus resources to do anything. The manual only tells me that the Resource Stores is the total amount of resources in storage (duh). It does not mention what the number in parenthesis behind it means, though in other cases it gives the amount needed to get to 100%.


Edited to add: my number of tanks and planes, verhicle, armament, manpower etc. produced are also reduced because of this supply sortage. So it is not only a reduction of power of the units due to lower morale and shoratge of suppply, but also a reduction of the whole soviet force due to lower production of everything.

[redrum68]

@Bertram "31,977 supplies not produced because of resource shortages" - this message is a bit misleading but can also mean that you don't have enough rail capacity to get the resources to the HI which is probably the case here. Check your Rail %.

[Bertram]

Redrum, you are right, rail capacity is indeed 148k from 200k needed, or 68%.

How is this number calculated? The manual tells me that I get 100 points, times 5, for each Soviet (undamaged) railyard for strategic rail movement. That is something else ? As I have 197 (undamaged) railyards, this comes to 98.500 strategic rail movement - which is not the same as the rail capacity (148k) nor as the rail movement capacity (16k/106.7k). (The setting for transport is at the default 100).

And how do I raise this rail capacity? Can't find anything (except the above) in the manual.

[BrianG]

And how do I raise this rail capacity?

hope for a hotfix.

maybe start a petition.

[redrum68]

@Bertram - You can't raise rail capacity. The only thing you can do is try to hold onto as many of your starting railyards as possible. Each year they get a larger multiplier in how much rail capacity they provide. The only thing you can do is turn down reserved rail to allow for more rail capacity for moving around supplies/fuel. The other thing you can do is try to minimize how much supplies and fuel you need by decreasing the fort building percentages, limiting how many air missions you run, limiting how much you move airbases around, and limiting how much you move tanks around.