Empty Air Groups Stuck on Carrier

mbatch729 · Post by **mbatch729** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:53 am

Help!!! OK, I sent a carrier back to Pearl. I offloaded the air groups so I could keep them training. There were three groups that had a damaged plane or two left when I sent her back to Pearl. When she came back, the three air groups were still on the carrier, no planes, no pilots. So now I can only load two of the four groups back on board because UV thinks there are five groups on board. The air groups on board are showing as fragments, 1/xx. I've put the parent unit on the carrier, they won't merge. I've tried transfering the fragments to both another carrier and a base (same hex) no luck. So, I'm outnumbered and sitting here w/a "crippled" carrier because I can't get all the planes on board.

Please post or email suggestions, or let me know if you'd like a file to look at. It's a PBEM game, but I'll provide my password.

P.S I've read a couple of posts in the main UV forum, but none of them seemed to address this exactly.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:26 pm

Was there any anwser for this? I just got two CVs back from PH, one of them had two 0 strength units and the other had 3. I was careful to send them back with no remenants. If there is no solution to this I will probably have to concede the game.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:20 pm

Hi, This is where CVE Long Island comes in handy. When CV with ghosts on board arrive transfer them to Long Island. and send LI back to PH.
(you may need to place the CV/CVE in a TF to transfer)

jcjordan · Post by **jcjordan** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:07 am

Just a thought but have you tried putting the carrier in a TF by itself for a turn or so to see if this does anything. I do that when screwy things happen with my carriers & it seems to work most of the time.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:29 am

OK, I got all the ghost squadrons on to the LI. But if I try to disband the TF with LI in it, all the ghosts go back to the orginal CVs. They even put 7 air units on one CV.

I am moving the CV TF out of Nouema this turn to see what happens.

JC, that is a good idea but with enemy subs lurking, I don't think so.

If I have to, the LI will try a kamakazi run at Raboul.

Well, moving the CVs out of Nouema seemed to fix the problem. I was able to disband the LI TF and ship LI and its 5 ghost squadrons to PH. Hope they can figure out what to do with them.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:57 am

Well I thought that fixed it. The turn after I sent LI back to PH, the stupid ghost squadrons showed back on my CVs. This problem has been around for a long time, can't we get it fixed? It is very aggravating. Now I have 6 squadrons on one CV and 7 on the other!!

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:38 am

I have restrained myself from saying this for a long, long time, but the continuing problems people are having with "ghost" squadrons on CVs and odd dispositions of aircraft and pilots prompt me to say just this:

This game was not designed in anticipation of the Allied player fiddling around with squadron assignments to CVs. I don't, and I have no such problems.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:03 am

Well I guess someone had to say it and you are the winner.

That is a load of cr@p. Both the IJN and USN put carrier squadrons
on land bases. Not often and the IJN did it more than the USN. It is
a part of the game and it should at least WORK right. If they are going
to put a feature in the game then I would expect it to work properly.
This is not a new problem, it has been around since version 1.0. Surely
they can fix it.

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:38 am

Nomad wrote:If they are going to put a feature in the game then I would expect it to work properly.

Yeah, I know. I have transferred air groups off of Japanese carriers a lot of times and later regretted it because of the problems it causes in getting back to "reality." When you have fleet carriers rendered unusable because you can't assign proper air groups to them, you have to question your competence as a "theater commander." (What do you mean, Genda, that you couldn't transfer fighter aircraft onto Akagi in compliance with my orders because a remnant of a no longer existing unit remained on board?)

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:01 pm

Voluntary transfer of squadrons from CVs should be avoided because of this, but sometimes it happens if you get hit in a CV engagement and part of a squadron gets stuck on the damaged carrier while a part lands on a land base.
Once I had a portion that escaped in time even upgraded to the new model, while the rest that was on the damaged carrier remained with the old model...

Macabre · Post by **Macabre** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:08 am

I'm in a pbem game where these pesky “0” squadrons are wreaking havoc on my carriers.

Has anyone come up with a fix for this problem because as the allies in scenario 19 I need all my remaining air groups on their carriers not stuck on shore because of a bug.

P.S. Thanks Matrix for a great game which would be a fantastic game with just a little bit more attention.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:19 am

Hi, Place the CV in a base with CVE (Long Island) transfer groups to CVE and send CVE back to PH.

Macabre · Post by **Macabre** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:47 am

Thanks for the reply Mogami.

I did just what you suggested after reading this thread but what started out as 3 "0" squadrons is now 6 (at least 5 are on Long Island and only one left on my CV).
By doing the recommended fix it has actually created more "0" squadrons.

Please is there any way that someone from Matrix might be able to address this problem.
I have save game files if it will help.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:07 am

Hi, The ones on Long Island do not matter. They will go away when you return her to PH. (CV's at PH consider the airgroups as withdrawn. Fake or partial Airgroups that are withdrawn do not reform and LI has no native airgroups to confuse. LI will be back in 38 days to get the last group if no other CVE without airgroups is handy)

Macabre · Post by **Macabre** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:48 am

Thanks again.
I will try sending Long Island back to Pearl.
Looks like we finally might have found a good use for Long Island.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:07 am

Hi, Well I read it from someone else. At the time I was playing a PBEM game and had 3 CV with screwed up airwings and the Japanese player was roaming about with Junyo and 2 CVL causing havoc. (In the Brisbane-Noumea gap)
I could not get groups on these CV. Once I read this trick I fixed the problem and went out and solved my other problem.

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:36 pm

I don't know if this is at all helpful, but I remember that a problem was identified with players being able to transfer aircraft from CVs in transit from Japan to Truk and from Pearl Harbor to Noumea. This was addressed in one of the early patches by having the game remove the aircraft from squadrons on carriers in "Ship availability" status. What may happen is that you get these zero-plane fragments when the aircraft removed were damaged, so that when the carrier returns to the theater, there is a "zero aircraft" squadron and the "remnant" has filled out meantime at the land base where it was transferred. The program just may not know what to do.

It does seem like something that ought to be addressed pronto. In the meantime, even though I agree it is "a load of cr@p," I try to keep CV squadrons assigned to their original ship and keep them in one piece to the extent possible. For example, when there are fragments on a CV I am intending to send back for repair, I wait until all the aircraft are repaired, then transfer all of the bits and pieces to the carrier so that the squadrons can re-form before the ship returns to Pearl or Tokyo. I never get "zero plane" or "ghost" squadrons (of course, I don't get to use the aircraft in theater while waiting for the carrier to return, either).

Best I can do until something better comes along.

Macabre · Post by **Macabre** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:13 am

Thanks for the info Pasternakski

I'm using Mogami's advice (Long Island filled with "0" squadrons to Pearl) for now but it will take a couple months of game time.
Like you in my next pbem I will regretfully try to keep the airgroups together with their carriers even though I feel you should be able to land base them.

I know the staff at Matrix is busy but it would be nice if they could put out a fix for this.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:05 am

Hi, I land base the CV airgroups in every scenario 19 I play. I have not had the ghost group problem except when a CV airgroup transfers to another CV as a result of battle damage.

I do leave one SBD group on it's CV because this group has 2 reserve aircraft (18 ready 0 damaged 2 reserve) and this leaves 2 ac behind and I'm not going to risk it.

Other then that the airgroups and CV have not given me a problem.

Macabre · Post by **Macabre** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:40 am

Hi Mogami,
The ghost group first appeared when I put airgroups back on their carriers while parts of the groups were still being repaired at another airbase.
This is my first scenario 19 pbem and I guess that I just got lucky (to bad it's Murphy's luck).
It looks like I will be able to fix the problem using the Long Island.
Thanks again for your help.

Empty Air Groups Stuck on Carrier

Empty Air Groups Stuck on Carrier

ghost groups

Please help!

CVE

Long Island

Fouled up CV

CV