Not sure about this...

[wodin]

Should large herbivores be able to claim terrortory and there fore cut off units just because they crossed hexes they may not even be in any more?

I'm not sure I like the idea land animals are seen as invaders etc. I really think they should yes possibly attack your units or even settle down on a road hex and then maybe cut off supplies until they move on or are forced on.


Currently I'm battling what probably are harmless enough herbivores as they took alod of my terrortary and so far this conflict has cost me 40 tanks!!! Still not killed them. In real life I imagine I'd let them stroll through, mayube if edible hunt one or two, but not have to attack them like some invading army.

This I feel needs to change.

[mroyer]

Yeah, control of territory implies some sort of non-nomadic social/political structure which needs a certain level of evolved intellect, etc..., that most animals won't have. Typically, animals probably shouldn't control territory other than perhaps the hex they occupy. When an animal move on, hex control should revert to the previous owner.

-Mark R.

[GodwinW]

I personally like it. I see it more as 'this is my region where I can guarantee safety in' and not as a border I actually change every round. Only when I agree on a border with someone does it come to act like one.
So I see it as 'I don't have control/supremacy of that hex anymore. And I don't. Say a private asset is being build on the other end of the stampede of animals. Since they're so dangerous no one will expect the workers to travel through them. So since it signifies control, workers, logistics (truck drivers), it makes sense it's this way.

Think about it, suppose you have a huge army sitting somewhere you don't have recon on it, no borders have changed because they're animals, but your logistics collapses. How should the game inform you about that then? The borders make this clear: something is cutting of supplies along that road.

[76mm]

Totally agree. Longer thread on this here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4837594

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: GodwinW
Think about it, suppose you have a huge army sitting somewhere you don't have recon on it, no borders have changed because they're animals, but your logistics collapses. How should the game inform you about that then? The borders make this clear: something is cutting of supplies along that road.

Creatures should only disrupt supply along a road if they are sitting on it, not if they passed through two or three turns ago.

[ramnblam]

I guess if you can't control the hordes of giant alien creatures they weren't really your borders.

[GodwinW]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: GodwinW
Think about it, suppose you have a huge army sitting somewhere you don't have recon on it, no borders have changed because they're animals, but your logistics collapses. How should the game inform you about that then? The borders make this clear: something is cutting of supplies along that road.

Creatures should only disrupt supply along a road if they are sitting on it, not if they passed through two or three turns ago.

And then Recon comes into play: you don't know where they are, whether they're gone, whether they're animals or enemy forces.
You only know something passed by so it's probably dangerous there (so civilians (logistics) don't go there) and now you're not sure if it's safe again until you get recon on those hexes.

[zgrssd]

The moving of the borders, is because your truck drivers do not know if the area is save.

It is possible the creatuers wandered off. Or it is possibly camping there, destroying your truck if you dare to come to close.
If you think herbivores are save just because they eat no flesh, ask people from Africa how they feel about Hippos! The damn things kill a order of magnitude more people then actually carnivores!
They are that territorial. No hesitation to sink a small boat and drown everyone that falls out.

It is the job of your military to verify that there is nothing hostile there. Or anywhre close to there. Once you do that, they would be happy to deliver again.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: GodwinW
Think about it, suppose you have a huge army sitting somewhere you don't have recon on it, no borders have changed because they're animals, but your logistics collapses. How should the game inform you about that then? The borders make this clear: something is cutting of supplies along that road.

Creatures should only disrupt supply along a road if they are sitting on it, not if they passed through two or three turns ago.

How do your drivers know it is not sitting on there anymore?
They are not the military. They do not get paid nearly enough to risk their life like that!

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
The moving of the borders, is because your truck drivers do not know if the area is save.

Of course they would know--I think a huge herd of large animals would be pretty hard to miss, and if they are present, your turn the truck around and drive back.

Moreover your regime has traders, diplomats, etc. that are apparently going about their business without your direct control. Perhaps they would notice if a huge herd of animals was occupying the road?

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
The moving of the borders, is because your truck drivers do not know if the area is save.

Of course they would know--I think a huge herd of large animals would be pretty hard to miss, and if they are present, your turn the truck around and drive back.

Are you willing to bet your life on that?
Are you part of any armed forces while doing that betting?

On any planet, there are thousands of species that will not attack you when you use a road through their terriotry. Those are not part of the game.
The Animals modelled on the map, that you have to fight? They will!

[Kamelpov]

Replace truck by horse carriage and try to run away from giant spider that has good hiding factor and speed. You can keep the truck but a spider that can mow your militia can certainty mow logistics

[VoodooDog]

It depends i would say, these animals are often huge hordes of multiple thousends. One could easily imagine that such a large gathering of dangerous animals can and will disrupt supply lines.

[eddieballgame]

The fact that this sci-fi game allows hostile alien creatures, on their hostile home planets, to disrupt your logistics is ok for me.
The task to deal with this is clear (though not an easy one)...control your roads & the necessary territory.
I am curious, however, if the AI has to deal with them.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

The fact that this sci-fi game allows hostile alien creatures, on their hostile home planets, to disrupt your logistics is ok for me.
The task to deal with this is clear (though not an easy one)...control your roads & the necessary territory.
I am curious, however, if the AI has to deal with them.

Minors without city need no supply.
Minors with city only need a connection, distance irrelevant.

[wodin]

Yep this is pretty much ruining my current playthrough. The veggy eating wildlife keeps taking over my land, cutting supply etc. Just doesn't seem right what are in effect large cows are going to be my downfall. I've taken out a slave regime and brought in a minor regime yet it's the wildlife that's going to be my downfall. Totally destroying any chance of me defending two majors that are getting closer and closer, whilst I'm running around chasing herd animals, it's like a post apocalypse animal farm!!

WHy would herbivore herd animals be looked upon samer as an invading army, taking land.

Fair enough let them own the hex they currently reside in but once vacated it goes back to previous owner.

I'm specifically talking about herbivores here and not predators.

[wodin]

Here is a link to my save to show the disruption


https://mega.nz/file/Gxp3UY5J#RnoDo59hq ... KFFksUJxyI

[JWW]

You mean kind of like this? Except a lot more of them.

https://youtu.be/rpwqtxfCiPM

[LordAldrich]

Borders in this game are not political borders, they're zones of control. Animals would fit into this system much better if either:

1. They had a home hive hex perk that they stayed close to, the same way that free folk do.
2. The area that they claim automatically returned to the control of the previous regime as soon as they migrate away.
3. Both.

Making it so they don't exert zone control at all breaks a lot of other gameplay loops. Like, how would you even know they were there, cutting supply on that one road, if the zone borders didn't show it?

[wodin]

I resigned this game as it stopped being fun.

Again I think predators should be a threat. Herbivores be a pain if they stop on a road hex and block supply. They shouldn't be able to land grab huge swathes of land. Places like Kenya just wouldn't be able to exist in this game. Infact England would be ruled by sheep and cows.