OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: fcooke

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


Seems like we're all glad we live where we live and wouldn't want others from far away deciding how we should do things.

From a UK perspective I'm not sure I'd go that far. A while back our government set out 'alert levels' that were supposed to link the progress of the epidemic with corresponding levels of response in terms of social distancing measures. As far as I am concerned we seem to be racing well ahead of that road map and without the testing and tracing system that we had previously been told would be the cornerstone of being able to open up safely.

But I think the reality is that we are taking the only course of action available - the economy simply cannot afford to continue paying for lock-down. What frustrates me is that there is no transparency - so we are not only opening up prematurely from a public health perspective but also not giving people the appropriate information in terms of the ongoing risks to encourage them to continue to take informal social distancing measures. I don't know what it's like north of the river but in South London everything seems to have broken down. People have been told it is safe to go back to normal and that is precisely what they are doing. Edit - this is actually perhaps harsh on the govt. who have been paying lip service to the importance of maintaining social distancing. I think my issue is more that they know what the fundamental message is that people will be taking and are being reckless to this - see for example this article by a behavioural scientist https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... wn-england

The other point for me is that whilst we are now probably taking the only available course of action economically, as things stand the examples of other countries both elsewhere in Europe and further afield suggest that we didn't have to be in this position in the first place had we reacted quicker.

On both counts it seems to me that the US is in a similar position.

I'm happy to live where I live for lots of other reasons. I'd be much happier if I could add to those reasons a government that had reacted well to this epidemic.

Where exactly south of the river? Lots of good boroughs down there....some still working on improving. Just curious. When I lived in London I was north of the river.

I'm in Wandsworth at the moment. Have ping-ponged between there and Lambeth the last few years as tenancies expire/flatmates come and go etc.

So my walk between work and home yesterday was
Brixton - still pretty quiet although I didn't go to the high street which is probably much busier. Although there was a big street party in the evening that seems to have got well out of hand.
Clapham Common - very busy lots of households mixing but some sort of distancing
Clapham Junction - probably the 'worst bit', lots of the bars are serving onto the pavements which were completely packed with people with no distancing whatsoever.
Wandsworth Park - as with Clapham Common

Maybe a quarter of the people in Brixton were wearing masks. Outside of Brixton nobody was wearing masks.

IMHO The government and the public are putting a whole load of eggs in the basket of there being little or no outdoor transmission.

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

obvert: Many people had a pattern of symptoms, where their symptoms were heightened initially, nearly disappeared, then returned again with ferocity, along with a very wide range of symptoms.

That seems to fit with the research that shows the virus developing new strains quite quickly, probably as the body neutralizes the initial infection. Another reason why I think we will be fighting this beast for a long time. I know vaccines try to target immunity to some key, immutable characteristic of the virus but sometimes the best we can come up with is a vaccine that targets an RNA bit that can mutate.

While there are certainly new strains there is little evidence that is causing the record high new cases in the United States. If that was the case places that has successfully flattened the curve would be rising along with the rest of the country. That is simply not the case. New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Illinois, Maryland, Virginia, Minnesota, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania are not seeing the massive increases Texas, Florida, Arkansas , The Carolinas and much of the south are. If there was a new strain why the disparity? Immunity from he original strain? Perhaps, but there is nowhere near enough confirmed exposure levels for any sort of herd immunity. It seems that the states that locked down longer and harder are not seeing the levels of increase of states that shut down less completely and for a shorter period of time.

[fcooke]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

ORIGINAL: fcooke

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive



From a UK perspective I'm not sure I'd go that far. A while back our government set out 'alert levels' that were supposed to link the progress of the epidemic with corresponding levels of response in terms of social distancing measures. As far as I am concerned we seem to be racing well ahead of that road map and without the testing and tracing system that we had previously been told would be the cornerstone of being able to open up safely.

But I think the reality is that we are taking the only course of action available - the economy simply cannot afford to continue paying for lock-down. What frustrates me is that there is no transparency - so we are not only opening up prematurely from a public health perspective but also not giving people the appropriate information in terms of the ongoing risks to encourage them to continue to take informal social distancing measures. I don't know what it's like north of the river but in South London everything seems to have broken down. People have been told it is safe to go back to normal and that is precisely what they are doing. Edit - this is actually perhaps harsh on the govt. who have been paying lip service to the importance of maintaining social distancing. I think my issue is more that they know what the fundamental message is that people will be taking and are being reckless to this - see for example this article by a behavioural scientist https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... wn-england

The other point for me is that whilst we are now probably taking the only available course of action economically, as things stand the examples of other countries both elsewhere in Europe and further afield suggest that we didn't have to be in this position in the first place had we reacted quicker.

On both counts it seems to me that the US is in a similar position.

I'm happy to live where I live for lots of other reasons. I'd be much happier if I could add to those reasons a government that had reacted well to this epidemic.

Where exactly south of the river? Lots of good boroughs down there....some still working on improving. Just curious. When I lived in London I was north of the river.

I'm in Wandsworth at the moment. Have ping-ponged between there and Lambeth the last few years as tenancies expire/flatmates come and go etc.

So my walk between work and home yesterday was
Brixton - still pretty quiet although I didn't go to the high street which is probably much busier. Although there was a big street party in the evening that seems to have got well out of hand.
Clapham Common - very busy lots of households mixing but some sort of distancing
Clapham Junction - probably the 'worst bit', lots of the bars are serving onto the pavements which were completely packed with people with no distancing whatsoever.
Wandsworth Park - as with Clapham Common

Maybe a quarter of the people in Brixton were wearing masks. Outside of Brixton nobody was wearing masks.

IMHO The government and the public are putting a whole load of eggs in the basket of there being little or no outdoor transmission.

That's a fair walk...and you can hit the Imperial War Museum, though when I was last there (a couple of years ago) they had made it more kiddie oriented, which is not a bad thing, but as a grognard was a bit of a let down. South of the river is a good place to be. Compared to when I moved to London (1997) it is thriving today. I still wouldn't want to hang in Elephant & Castle but the riverfront is absolutely teeming with people and things to do.

[geofflambert]

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[geofflambert]

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[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

obvert: Many people had a pattern of symptoms, where their symptoms were heightened initially, nearly disappeared, then returned again with ferocity, along with a very wide range of symptoms.

That seems to fit with the research that shows the virus developing new strains quite quickly, probably as the body neutralizes the initial infection. Another reason why I think we will be fighting this beast for a long time. I know vaccines try to target immunity to some key, immutable characteristic of the virus but sometimes the best we can come up with is a vaccine that targets an RNA bit that can mutate.

While there are certainly new strains there is little evidence that is causing the record high new cases in the United States. If that was the case places that has successfully flattened the curve would be rising along with the rest of the country. That is simply not the case. New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Illinois, Maryland, Virginia, Minnesota, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania are not seeing the massive increases Texas, Florida, Arkansas , The Carolinas and much of the south are. If there was a new strain why the disparity? Immunity from he original strain? Perhaps, but there is nowhere near enough confirmed exposure levels for any sort of herd immunity. It seems that the states that locked down longer and harder are not seeing the levels of increase of states that shut down less completely and for a shorter period of time.

Yeah, my comment was more about how the individual experiences the symptoms, perhaps because of mutations during the infected period. The length of the symptom period is variable, suggesting the virus itself can vary. I was not suggesting that as a reason for the hot spots in any country.

[BBfanboy]

Remember the Aircraft Carrier that had the major outbreak? The USN is using social distancing in an extreme way to make sure other ships are not similarly compromised.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... ng-at-sea/

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Remember the Aircraft Carrier that had the major outbreak? The USN is using social distancing in an extreme way to make sure other ships are not similarly compromised.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... ng-at-sea/

Well, I guess that is one way to do it [:D] Not sure what the answer is for that. Maybe park it with all the worlds cruise ships? https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... out-at-sea

[RangerJoe]

I think I know people who had that sugar cube. I wonder if people who had the dead polio vaccine would benefit from the live vaccine.

And to think of the cooperation like that at the height of the Cold War. That is like the Soviet Union coming to the US to improve its pork industry in the 1950s.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Remember the Aircraft Carrier that had the major outbreak? The USN is using social distancing in an extreme way to make sure other ships are not similarly compromised.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... ng-at-sea/

I like how they are working things out.

Someone who had been in the US Navy said that after so many days at sea with no port call, they would be given a couple of beers. He also talked about one guy who came back after a nine month stretch away from his wife. She met him at the dock - she was SIX months pregnant!

[fcooke]

That must have been an interesting conversation.....

I think the cruise lines are toast. which means that the shipyards that build them are toast too.

I did go fetch some dinner tonight. No food being served inside, just pick-up, but the door said you had to wear a mask. But the bar portion was open and literally not a soul was wearing a mask (hard to drink with a mask on). When I pulled mine down to get my credit card out of my wallet (not sure how many others have a difficult time seeing things with a mask and glasses on), nobody said boo.

Anyways - goodnight, ladies, gents, aliens, etc.

[fcooke]

That must have been an interesting conversation.....

I think the cruise lines are toast. which means that the shipyards that build them are toast too.

I did go fetch some dinner tonight. No food being served inside, just pick-up, but the door said you had to wear a mask. But the bar portion was open and literally not a soul was wearing a mask (hard to drink with a mask on). When I pulled mine down to get my credit card out of my wallet (not sure how many others have a difficult time seeing things with a mask and glasses on), nobody said boo.

Anyways - goodnight, ladies, gents, aliens, etc.

[fcooke]

That must have been an interesting conversation.....

I think the cruise lines are toast. which means that the shipyards that build them are toast too.

I did go fetch some dinner tonight. No food being served inside, just pick-up, but the door said you had to wear a mask. But the bar portion was open and literally not a soul was wearing a mask (hard to drink with a mask on). When I pulled mine down to get my credit card out of my wallet (not sure how many others have a difficult time seeing things with a mask and glasses on), nobody said boo.

Anyways - goodnight, ladies, gents, aliens, etc.

[fcooke]

sorry - weird website behaviour. did not mean to have multiple posts

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think I know people who had that sugar cube. I wonder if people who had the dead polio vaccine would benefit from the live vaccine.

And to think of the cooperation like that at the height of the Cold War. That is like the Soviet Union coming to the US to improve its pork industry in the 1950s.

I recall the sugar cube. It is among my earliest memories. Maybe a different virus but I remember it . Early 1960's

[RangerJoe]

Blizzards were in the forecast yesterday. A New York Supreme for me and a Cotton Candy one for someone that I met. The staff wore masks and only half of the inside seating was available. No outside seating was available.

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Blizzards were in the forecast yesterday. A New York Supreme for me and a Cotton Candy one for someone that I met. The staff wore masks and only half of the inside seating was available. No outside seating was available.

Blizzards were in the forecast yesterday. A New York Supreme for me and a Cotton Candy one for someone that I met. The staff wore masks and only half of the inside seating was available. No outside seating was available.

I don't really care much about ice cream either way. I think they stems from the fact I live in a house full of women that crave the stuff so I never get any ice cream anyway. A trip to Dairy Queen is another thing. I will happily go and I do enjoy a good Blizzard. Posting the calorie count has taken much of the fun out of it though

[RangerJoe]

DQ has a phone app where you can order and pay for it, then pick it up. After so much, then you can get a free blizzard.

I don't bother to count calories and it shows, however that small blizzard was my lunch. [:'(]

[JohnDillworth]

Yikes! Florida went from bad to worse. 5,000 new cases yesterday, 9,000 new cases today! DeSantis victory lap not looking so good now https://www.towleroad.com/2020/04/gov-r ... ida-watch/

Yesterday DeSantis was crowing about not "slowing down reopening" . 24 hours later they are shutting down bars again https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-ba ... d/32981423#

[Canoerebel]

Florida is a dumpster fire. It's approaching 10% of the deaths New York has experienced.