Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

[Lowpe]

Pearl still has plenty of fight in her.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Tennessee, Maryland and West Virginia intact

Oklahoma and California will be ready by January

Nevada, Pennsylvania, Arizona by March at the latest


but what to do with so many old battleships??

[Lowpe]

Houston lives...for now.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Tennessee, Maryland and West Virginia intact

Oklahoma and California will be ready by January

Nevada, Pennsylvania, Arizona by March at the latest


but what to do with so many old battleships??

The slow battleships have only a few uses early: misdirection, fleet in being, and bait.

[RangerJoe]

Send the three BBs out to attack, maybe wipe out the KB!

Talk about a wimpy strike and using Kates on the airfield? Zeros bomb quite well at 11,000 feet. [:D]

[Lowpe]

Here is something that I would not do...break one paratroop unit down into three air assaults:


Ground combat at Laoag (81,72)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 265 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 20

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 9

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 9 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Laoag !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 1st SNLF /1


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Ground combat at Itbayat Island (84,69)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 67 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 3

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Itbayat Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 1st SNLF /2


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Ground combat at Aparri (82,73)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 96 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 2

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Aparri !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 1st SNLF /3

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Agree, a mandatory HR in all of my games

[Lowpe]

Manila raid one:

Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 27
G4M1 Betty x 54

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 1

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
SS Searaven, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
DD Peary, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS S-41, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Sailfish, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 11
Port hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 5000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
27 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
27 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 5000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

[Lowpe]

Manila raid 2

Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
B5N2 Kate x 27
D3A1 Val x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AM Lark, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1
SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 1
DD Pope, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AV Langley, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS Saury, Bomb hits 1
AS Otus, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS Seal, Bomb hits 1
SS S-40, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Permit, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS S-37, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
AVD Childs, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Pecos, Bomb hits 1
SS Sailfish, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Port hits 2
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

[Lowpe]

Savaged by a point blank torpedo wave....

I had switched Task Force Z to cruise...this most likely would have landed the TF at Kota Bharu during the daytime, and the fight would have been a little different...but the POW and Repulse would still likely have been sunk eventually. And I thought, what Admiralty would restrict a battle squadron's speed so...I switched back to mission.

Glad they went out fighting. Shocked to see they actually made it to the landings.


Night Time Surface Combat, near Kota Bharu at 51,75, Range 9,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Walrus II: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
BB Haruna, Shell hits 1
CA Takao, Shell hits 1
CA Atago
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 1
DD Asashio
DD Oshio, Shell hits 1
DD Michishio, Shell hits 1
DD Arashio
DD Akatsuki
DD Hibiki, Shell hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 37, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BC Repulse, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Vampire, Shell hits 2
DD Tenedos
DD Electra, Shell hits 1
DD Express, Shell hits 18, and is sunk

Improved night sighting under 85% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 85% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 9,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 9,000 yards
BB Haruna engages BB Prince of Wales at 9,000 yards
BB Kongo engages BC Repulse at 9,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Electra at 9,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CL Jintsu at 9,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Michishio at 9,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Asashio at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
BB Haruna engages BB Prince of Wales at 2,000 yards
BB Kongo engages BC Repulse at 2,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Atago at 2,000 yards
BC Repulse sunk by CA Takao at 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Tenedos at 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Tenedos at 2,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Electra at 2,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Oshio at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Express at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
BB Haruna engages BB Prince of Wales at 5,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Kongo at 5,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Electra at 5,000 yards
CA Takao engages BB Prince of Wales at 5,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages BB Prince of Wales at 5,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Express at 5,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages DD Tenedos at 5,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Michishio at 5,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Electra at 5,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Asashio at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 8,000 yards
BB Kongo engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Electra at 8,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Tenedos at 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Jintsu at 8,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Hibiki at 8,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Akatsuki at 8,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Oshio at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
BB Haruna engages BB Prince of Wales at 9,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CA Atago at 9,000 yards
CA Takao engages BB Prince of Wales at 9,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Jintsu at 9,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Arashio at 9,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 8,000 yards
BB Kongo engages BB Prince of Wales at 8,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Michishio at 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Jintsu at 8,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Tenedos at 8,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Electra at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 9,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
CA Atago engages BB Prince of Wales at 9,000 yards
CA Takao engages DD Tenedos at 9,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Michishio at 9,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Vampire at 9,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Akatsuki at 9,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Tenedos at 9,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Express at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages BB Haruna at 8,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Electra at 8,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Akatsuki at 8,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Arashio at 8,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Hibiki at 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Electra at 8,000 yards
Phillips, Tom S.V. orders Allied TF to disengage

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is something that I would not do...break one paratroop unit down into three air assaults:


Ground combat at Laoag (81,72)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 265 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 20

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 9

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 9 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Laoag !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 1st SNLF /1


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Ground combat at Itbayat Island (84,69)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 67 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 3

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Itbayat Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 1st SNLF /2


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Ground combat at Aparri (82,73)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 96 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 2

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Aparri !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 1st SNLF /3

I would not have a problem doing that to clean up dot bases behind the front. I would have no problem using the unit to drop somewhere else on the next turn if the first drop was successful.

Unfortunately, you can't break the battalion sized units into companies. Only the divisions can break down.

[Lowpe]

Butcher's bill very light.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I think 1st turn was balanced in results;
you got a mild/ pointless PH strike,
Manila strike was weak, with few sinkings and submarines can take a lot of damage and still cruise to a new base
Loss of PoW and Repulse was the (only?) big win for Japan

[Lowpe]

Opportunity...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

I think 1st turn was balanced in results;
you got a mild/ pointless PH strike,
Manila strike was weak, with few sinkings and submarines can take a lot of damage and still cruise to a new base
Loss of PoW and Repulse was the (only?) big win for Japan

I lost Langley...the only thundering herd ship I wanted to save.

2 Fish in Houston.

Japan has fleet carriers in SRA.

I sure hope he didn't merge his task forces with the KB, naval search very unreliable this early.

Horrendous IJ day 2...other than sinking Task Force Z. Which was more me than him anyhow, lols.

B17s force untouched!

I have learned a lot from the this first two day turn.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Agree, a mandatory HR in all of my games

[Lowpe]

A few more PP than anticipated.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Opportunity...

I have tried to oppose the IJ carriers with Enterprise and Lexington on turn two or three and they routinely accomplish squat. The IJ fighters mess up the attacks every time and there are not enough US fighters to hold them off. The IJ pro bombers have no such difficulties. Other than setting up a CAP trap, I see no opportunity.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Opportunity...

I have tried to oppose the IJ carriers with Enterprise and Lexington on turn two or three and they routinely accomplish squat. The IJ fighters mess up the attacks every time and there are not enough US fighters to hold them off. The IJ pro bombers have no such difficulties. Other than setting up a CAP trap, I see no opportunity.

Who said anything about Big E going in....I maybe mad, but I am not crazy! I will strip out the cruisers and destroyers, and look for a night time encounter where the IJN is saddled with slow CVs and hope to do some damage, while the Big E and a destroyer flee like little girls.

With one day turns it would be simple, but 2 day turns make it simpler and harder at the same time. Flank speed runs will almost never occur because who can afford the fuel usage and wear and tear over 2 days? I see some applications, but it is limited -- and this might be a case in point.

Much easier to plot likely engagement hexes for a night time fight, but a lot harder to execute your escape. I think I can do it here, with a flank speed run with way points to engagement hex and then back along the expected path of the KB followed by a return to Pearl all at flank speed. Hopefully the SAG doesn't run out of fuel until outside of air strike range. Some type of ships will be dispatched to refuel the SAG form Pearl.

Another complication is that if a cruiser eats a torpedo, 3 movement pulses at flank speed are probably death. And this early taking torpedo hits at night from the IJN is highly likely.

Big E and a destroyer run to Alaska -- pretty straightforward escape.

The other option is for the entire Big E TF to precede the KB to Midway looking to destroy things before veering off to Alaska. That is the safe option. Where is the fun in safe?

Putting say two fleet carriers into repairs at Honshu for a month now is quite the opportunity! That is probably best case with the forces at hand. And quite frankly, pulling off this stunt off and only scaring the IJN this early is opportunity!

[splashell]

Really bad luck with Force Z.

One-on-one Prince of Wales will absolutely wipe the floor with a Kongo class and two-on-two POW and Repulse should easily sink both Kongos, but at 2k yards against CAs/DDs packing torps, and considering the Japanese had a large numerical advantage as well, really does change the game.

I wonder what the most optimal doctrine regarding using cruisers/BBs together is. Some people think it's better to keep them separate but others group cruisers along. I guess that really depends on if the enemy has cruisers as well, you are much more likely to get into closer range knife fights with the BBs and more at danger. The 4-5" secondaries on the UK BBs are probably not usually enough to deal with CAs, especially the modern Japanese ones which have a bit thicker belt armor. BBs by themselves can potentially slug it out at ranges above or at extreme limits of most cruiser guns, depending on opposite commander traits of course and whether the more aggressive side has the speed to close the gap. But of course the one with more armor benefits from close brawling (i.e. Prince of Wales).

In the early 20th century, when Fisher invented the concept of "battle cruiser" the idea was a relatively lightly armored ship with B/BB caliber guns with enough speed to overtake any smaller cruiser. Well it didn't work out too well for the British during WW1. The German BCs were built on the idea of smaller caliber guns and more armor and were quite tough to sink, but even so dished out enough damage to penetrate lightly armored British BCs. The idea was to replace the old armored cruisers with BC and theoretically BCs were originally designed to be cruiser killers being able to sink anything they can catch, and outrun anything that poses a real threat to them. They were also designed to support the battleline operations, i.e. perform flanking maneuvers on the enemy fleet, but never to take on real BBs by themselves. During the interwar years, torpedo technology advanced, they became faster and longer ranged, cruisers and DDs became more dangerous, but of course the fleet standoff ranges increased as well, and screening tactics evolved better etc. Bottom line I think grouping BB/BC with cruisers will more likely decrease engagement range and should be done if the enemy is known to include cruisers as well, but at the end of the day, more firepower "should" always take the gold.