Ammo factory

[Destragon]

I feel like someone must have brought it up already, but I couldn't actually find anything with the search function.

Ammo factories seem like a simple enough suggestion. Not sure if there is any reason not to have them.
Just an asset that turns metal into ammo, so you don't have to keep manually producing ammo every couple turns with the workshop button.

[Clux]

Unless we have a deeper ammo system, I don't think than an Ammo Factory its necessary.

[Destragon]

Having to remember to press the button every couple turns is kinda annoying. Especially when you forget about it and have some of your units run out of ammo for a turn.

It could also be possible to just create some feature that would let you set a desired amount of ammo and have the game automatically produce ammo, when you are below that amount, but I think I'd actually like an ammo factory asset more, cause it's more thematic and gives you a bit more industry to build.

[Twotribes]

LOL all you need to do is check the max storage allowed and build on one turn to that. Then check a simple read out that is presented EVERY damn turn.

[Malevolence]

Maybe a better suggestion is that ammunition isn't meaningful enough (in terms of player choices) to be used in the game at all.

Maybe it should just be eliminated as a separate resource.

I like the notion of ammunition supplies, but it's hard to argue with the suggestion it's not developed in a meaningful way.

[Destragon]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

LOL all you need to do is check the max storage allowed and build on one turn to that. Then check a simple read out that is presented EVERY damn turn.

I mean, that doesn't stop this from being a bad mechanic. Having to press the "don't run out of ammo" button every now and then.
Just make the game automatically maintain a stockpile of 1000-2000 ammo or something like that.
Alternatively, make manual manufacturing of ammo more expensive and add ammo factory assets that work pretty much like the machinery factory assets.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: Destragon

Just make the game automatically maintain a stockpile of 1000-2000 ammo or something like that.

Then why have it in the game?

And then we need to be prepared for the crowd that immediately pops up, "I couldn't build my XYZ, because automatic ammunition used all my metal."

[Destragon]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Then why have it in the game?

For exactly the same reasons it's in the game now? It requires resources for the manufacturing and logistics for the delivery to the troops and also makes laser weaponry feel more unique.
Having to press a button to create it doesn't give it its reason to exist.

And then we need to be prepared for the crowd that immediately pops up, "I couldn't build my XYZ, because automatic ammunition used all my metal."

Then turn it off.

[Malevolence]

All of which sounds like exactly like the player's level of effort we have now... except someone has to go in and change code.

Either way the player is still toggling the switch and monitoring the resources.

It reminds me of character food mechanics in the old MUDs and MMORPGs.

Some clever person would add different buffs for different kinds of food and drink in order to fix the monotony. Except it was still just a chore not really worth the effort.

Why should ammunition be any different than spare barrels, or repair parts... or any other consumables? It doesn't really add anything.

[8|]


... however, you can look at game like eve-online where the ammunition was cooked into the combat engine as important component. It was directly related to your fitting, weapons, and to your adversary's specific resistances. For that, I'd vote, but it's a different kind of game.



In the minds of many game designers, every strategic-level leader is a technocrat.

[demiare]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Either way the player is still toggling the switch and monitoring the resources.

This is exactly same mechanic that used for any resource but Metal, Rare metal & Radioactives.

It's extremely bad design idea to use separate mechanic for ammo, especially as it's so annoying - slider instead a text field, no way to automate it (lol it's 2020!). Damn it, why I can't set "manufacture ammo for XX turns of fire for current army"?.

SE isn't s clicker game.

[Destragon]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

All of which sounds like exactly like the player's level of effort we have now... except someone has to go in and change code.

I'm not really getting your point. What I'm talking about is a straight improvement. It's the same amount of decision making by the player, but with less button pushing.

As for the factories, if we didn't have heavy industry assets and the only way to produce machinery was through the workshop button, would you be against adding the heavy industry asset to the game, too, because the workshop button is good enough?
I would actually like having the ability to build up infrastructure for ammo production, because the assets and resources are a thing I like a lot about this game. Having to establish factories feels a lot more involved than pushing the magic resource conversion button, which is good for a 4X strategy game like this. The workshop button should stay anyway though. It could be an emergency service you use when you totally ran out of ammo in a desperate situation, but come at a cost, by being a lot less efficient than proper ammo factories.

[Hazard151]

There is also that the workshop may be less material efficient, but it's definitely more population efficient.

[TheSquid]

I was actually going to agree with this, but after thinking it through, based on the timeline of the game and how troops/units are produced, it probably makes some sense the way it is now?

After thinking about it some more - maybe it would make more sense to just add different ammo types to the "standard" one? By this I don't mean going down to individual calibre or anything of the sort, but perhaps have certain missiles and lasers require different/specialised ammo, as opposed to simply requiring radioactives and energy (respectively) as they do now?

Having said that, I'm not averse to the idea of changing the ammo mechanic to a set-and-forget mechanism, possibly set via a decision (which may be called up by contacting the appropriate minister/SHQ/Strategic Council, where we allocate a certain percentage of IP/metal/etc to weapon production each round?); however in that case the current mechanic needs to be removed, as IMO it wouldn't really make sense (or be necessary) to have two ways of doing this.

[newageofpower]

Does Light Industry occasionally produce Ammo? I remember seeing my ammo going up without using the workshop.

[DTurtle]

IIRC, high militancy makes zones produce a little ammo.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: Destragon

I feel like someone must have brought it up already, but I couldn't actually find anything with the search function.

Ammo factories seem like a simple enough suggestion. Not sure if there is any reason not to have them.
Just an asset that turns metal into ammo, so you don't have to keep manually producing ammo every couple turns with the workshop button.

I second this idea.
Both ammo and Machines can be made in the workshop. However only machines have a Factory to build. That seems pretty off.

ORIGINAL: newageofpower

Does Light Industry occasionally produce Ammo? I remember seeing my ammo going up without using the workshop.

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

IIRC, high militancy makes zones produce a little ammo.

My understanding is that you get reimbursed for every unit of food, ammo or fuel the militia uses - with a 1 turn delay.
You do not need to produce stuff for milita, but still have to provide to logistics for it.

[stryc]

Ammo, as it stands right now, would benefit the game by being removed as a discrete resource; being what it is now makes it a needless and wasteful uptick in micro. In short: it's not a mechanic that adds anything to the game experience.

However, if it were to be expanded upon as a resource in some fashion, then we might be able to talk about dedicated structures and wotnot.

[beyondwudge]

I like ammunition. An ammo factory would be great. If you don't want more ammunition, you can just mothball it. No different than building machines. Just research the technology and construct them Heavy Industry -- to whatever level is required.

I would also like to have a 'Weapons' resource. It would primarily be used for recruiting new units (higher tier weapons requiring more). It would also be a resource that is heavily traded (it would be expensive, great for selling and worth having a lot of spare liquid energy credits for if you need to recruit an advanced army in a hurry).

The idea of there being a traders faction with personalities such as a "Lord of War" like in that movie starring Nicholas Cage could make the 'arms trade' into a very fun part of the game. It certainly is one part of Empire-making and an important part of winning the friendship / supporting the longevity of other nations.

[GuardsmanGary]

It almost seems like an oversight that the workshop is the only place the player has acquire ammo.

With the addition of aircraft and anti-aircraft units and their absolute gluttony for ammo the need for an automated method of producing ammunition is greater than ever. With even just a few wings of medium or heavy bombers it is not sufficient to simply produce as much ammo as your maximum storage and leave it for a few turns; that stockpile can and will be eaten through in a single turn of aircraft activity. There's no reasonable explanation to justify ammunition being the only resource in the game, other than fate points, that does not have a automated method of procuring it. Machinery, which is also built in the workshop, has heavy industry to produce it, hi-tech parts have hi-tech industry in addition to finding them via scavenging, metal, rare metal, radioactives, fuel, food, water, energy, recruits, colonists, money, political power, everything has some method of production that does not require constant player input. Why must ammunition stand alone?

In terms of gameplay value alone the introduction of ammunition factories could can only add to player choice, and can have a ripple effect on a number of other systems. With automated ammunition production it could be added to the market as a commodity to be bought and sold, and if it's on the market there can be a private "gunsmith" asset that produces small amounts of ammunition and creates private and trader income from selling it. Players could hamper their opponents efforts to supply their armies not just by destroying their food or fuel producing assets but their munitions as well. While we're at it you could find abandoned ammunition dumps in free-folk villages. With a way to automatically produce it there could even be a distinction between small arms ammunition and heavy ammunition types to increase the meaningfulness of ammunition as a mechanic. With factories to produce ammo it can add another sink to metal and IP, which, as it stands, gets trivially easy to acquire and virtually meaningless by mid-game. Having an additional asset that requires workers also creates higher demand on a zones population, the real and practically only resource squeeze Shadow Empire has.

In short, yes please add ammo factories, it can only improve gameplay.

[BlueTemplar]

I don't get you people saying that currently ammunition doesn't really add anything to the game considering how important its logistics are ! (And different enough from food logistics, especially on offense / air combat.)

Yes, please, add an ammo factory, and make it a tradeable item.

It's a bit ridiculous how my neighboring Nomads are pestering me every turn to buy their ammo (THEY have a hidden ammo factory, don't they ?!), while I can't buy/sell it from traders !
(I guess it adds to the Nomad flavour, but after the change they could still always give better deals than traders...)