Search and max range

[geofflambert]

Play around with those search arcs and you'll see that there's no difference as long as you set both to the same range. You'll also notice they don't go all the way to their max range because at the end of the leg they make a turn perpendicular to the radius and go awhile before coming back. The further out they go, the longer that perpendicular leg gets.

[thephalanx1453]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Bad wording perhaps. It is true, but pass for pass. As the other sentence states, if you limit the range you may get more passes, ergo more die rolls. It does not matter the range of the plane as long as it can get there. So if your short range plane can get there once, so can the long range plane. They may both get there twice if you limit the range of the one plane to the maximum of the other. If the shorter range plane can't get there the question is moot.

Is it possible to see how many passes your squadron has done during an air phase?

[geofflambert]

Not that I'm aware of. Perhaps Tracker accesses that? You can predict how many beforehand but a plane may break down or have a problem. Ask Nagumo how that worked for him at Midway.

[thephalanx1453]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert You can predict how many beforehand but a plane may break down or have a problem.

How do I predict beforehand? Say I set my Jake to search to its max range of 10. How many passes would that be?

[geofflambert]

I believe there's a consensus on it (or we'll hear about it) but players tend not to set search arcs on carrier TFs at sea, trusting that the commanders we picked will get the search planes where they need to be. I almost never set the arcs for carriers and have enough planes on search, especially using the escort's float planes (and if weather allows) to have complete coverage to all points of the compass. For land based, I use arcs a lot, partly to cover water and not land, sometimes to avoid enemy CAP over large airbases.

[geofflambert]

I also may limit the ranges for search at land or sea to avoid heavy CAP zones. I have to remember that with BB TFs for instance, as I may dare to make a close pass to such a zone and lose a lot of float planes in the process.

[RangerJoe]

Count the total sorties by all other air units that day, subtract those from the total sorties on the intelligence screen and that will the the total sorties by that one air unit. Have fun doing so. Or just take the difference in missions flown by the pilots from one day to the next.

DL not not carry over per se, but if the intelligence people knew the TF composition, speed, and direction at sunset or at a certain time during the previous day or night, then an of probability can be drawn as to where that TF is now located.

Just look at the battle of Midway, the KB TF wa detected at a certain time and the Hornet's dive bombers missed it entirely. If they would have been there, maybe the Hiryu would have been sunk earlier and the Yorktown not attacked and subsequently sunk.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453

ORIGINAL: geofflambert You can predict how many beforehand but a plane may break down or have a problem.

How do I predict beforehand? Say I set my Jake to search to its max range of 10. How many passes would that be?

How many Jakes do you have and what range did you set and how wide the search pattern? Each plane is assigned a 10 degree arc. Turn on the show search arcs and it will tell you by the colors displayed for each 10 degree wedge. If you don't set arcs it won't tell you. I think everyone just makes sure everything is covered sufficiently with a lot to spare if there's much at stake. Also if it's carriers and you set the arcs it's extremely important to see where the morning runs are because you may easily lose the battle if your searchers don't find the target til the afternoon. That's why we don't set the arcs for carriers, when the sun comes up they may have passed you in the night and be behind you. You have to spot them right away. Double or triple the amount of planes used over the minimum necessary.

[thephalanx1453]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Count the total sorties by all other air units that day, subtract those from the total sorties on the intelligence screen and that will the the total sorties by that one air unit. Have fun doing so. Or just take the difference in missions flown by the pilots from one day to the next.

Wait, so the multiple "passes" flown within a single air phase actually count as multiple missions flown by the pilot? Has anyone confirmed? I thought that the "passes" was simply an abstract detection chance multiplier (something like, 2.36, for example) based on speed/range/etc. Otherwise, there would be optimal ranges for each class of aircraft to do two passes, three passes, etc, and I don't see those anywhere. Something like "Mavis set to range 7 or below do three passes, 8-12 do two passes, etc"

[geofflambert]

The one who gets there firstest with the mostest does the bestest, and the one who gets there lastest with the leastest does the worstest.

[geofflambert]

I think its generally one pass in the am and maybe one in the pm as well. Having enough searchers will give you one pass in both the am and the pm. That's a simplification but games like this can't avoid some simplification. Also, some planes can also search at night, but they'll do one or the other not both. For instance, Kates can search at night but Jills can't, until you get the Jills that have radar. Why the designers decided Jills couldn't operate at night I know not. Some planes can do some things at night but not others that they normally can do during the day. Toggle the switch (if there's even a night option) and you'll see.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Count the total sorties by all other air units that day, subtract those from the total sorties on the intelligence screen and that will the the total sorties by that one air unit. Have fun doing so. Or just take the difference in missions flown by the pilots from one day to the next.

Wait, so the multiple "passes" flown within a single air phase actually count as multiple missions flown by the pilot? Has anyone confirmed? I thought that the "passes" was simply an abstract detection chance multiplier (something like, 2.36, for example) based on speed/range/etc. Otherwise, there would be optimal ranges for each class of aircraft to do two passes, three passes, etc, and I don't see those anywhere. Something like "Mavis set to range 7 or below do three passes, 8-12 do two passes, etc"

Well, look up the definition of "sorties" and the definition of "passes."

[thephalanx1453]

disregard

[thephalanx1453]

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Count the total sorties by all other air units that day, subtract those from the total sorties on the intelligence screen and that will the the total sorties by that one air unit. Have fun doing so. Or just take the difference in missions flown by the pilots from one day to the next.

Wait, so the multiple "passes" flown within a single air phase actually count as multiple missions flown by the pilot? Has anyone confirmed? I thought that the "passes" was simply an abstract detection chance multiplier (something like, 2.36, for example) based on speed/range/etc. Otherwise, there would be optimal ranges for each class of aircraft to do two passes, three passes, etc, and I don't see those anywhere. Something like "Mavis set to range 7 or below do three passes, 8-12 do two passes, etc"

Actually, just done a test. It seems that it's an abstract modifier after all. A single plane searching will always have 2 sorties (1 morning 1 afternoon) barring unforeseen circumstances, regardless of the max range set.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Count the total sorties by all other air units that day, subtract those from the total sorties on the intelligence screen and that will the the total sorties by that one air unit. Have fun doing so. Or just take the difference in missions flown by the pilots from one day to the next.

Wait, so the multiple "passes" flown within a single air phase actually count as multiple missions flown by the pilot? Has anyone confirmed? I thought that the "passes" was simply an abstract detection chance multiplier (something like, 2.36, for example) based on speed/range/etc. Otherwise, there would be optimal ranges for each class of aircraft to do two passes, three passes, etc, and I don't see those anywhere. Something like "Mavis set to range 7 or below do three passes, 8-12 do two passes, etc"

Actually, just done a test. It seems that it's an abstract modifier after all. A single plane searching will always have 2 sorties (1 morning 1 afternoon) barring unforeseen circumstances, regardless of the max range set.

That is not true. How long does it take for a Mavis to fly 25 hexes and return?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Count the total sorties by all other air units that day, subtract those from the total sorties on the intelligence screen and that will the the total sorties by that one air unit. Have fun doing so. Or just take the difference in missions flown by the pilots from one day to the next.

Wait, so the multiple "passes" flown within a single air phase actually count as multiple missions flown by the pilot? Has anyone confirmed? I thought that the "passes" was simply an abstract detection chance multiplier (something like, 2.36, for example) based on speed/range/etc. Otherwise, there would be optimal ranges for each class of aircraft to do two passes, three passes, etc, and I don't see those anywhere. Something like "Mavis set to range 7 or below do three passes, 8-12 do two passes, etc"

Well, look up the definition of "sorties" and the definition of "passes."

One aircraft will fly one 10º arc once each phase. Each aircraft in the squadron will normally only fly ONE sortie during the turn, unless:
- the distance is quite short (but the aircraft might search the short wedge more intensively to use its fuel instead of making one pass and returning immediately)
- the squadron pilots are highly experienced
- there is a positive die roll.

Look at fatigue levels for aircraft and pilots to see how much flying was done. If you set search arcs and there are more aircraft in the squadron than required to send one aircraft per segment per phase, the rest will be available for training or rest/repair. E.G. if you have a squadron of 12 aircraft and assign naval search for two 10º arcs, four aircraft and pilots will be assigned for the whole turn. That leaves eight aircraft that you can assign other secondary missions. If you assign ASW, arcs are already set for NavS, so they ASW will presumably take place on those arcs. If you assign training, the pilots might fly the same range as the search and thus put more wear and tear on the aircraft (but perhaps gain more experience too). Check the plane fatigue to see if it would be best to let them stay idle and repairing.

[thephalanx1453]

That is not true. How long does it take for a Mavis to fly 25 hexes and return?

[s]Actually I did see multiple sorties per phase from short ranged planes. Jakes for example will do 4 sorties per day, 2 per phase, at its max range of 10. Now to test all the planes[/s]


EDIT: made a mistake here. It's actually always 2 sorties. When 20% of 9 planes fly, the arc graphic makes it seem like only 1 plane is flying (1 morning arc 1 afternoon arc), but in fact 2 planes are flying which produced the 4 sorties. When I turn it down to 10%, the image of the arc stays the same, but 2 sorties are produced.

In conclusion, no matter how fast and how short-ranged the plane is, only 2 sorties are always counted by the game. Therefore I suspect the "number of passes" is simply an abstract modifier instead an actual integer.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453

That is not true. How long does it take for a Mavis to fly 25 hexes and return?

Actually I did see multiple sorties per phase from short ranged planes. Jakes for example will do 4 sorties per day, 2 per phase, at its max range of 10. Now to test all the planes

But you did not answer the question that I asked, you diverted to something that I did not ask.

[thephalanx1453]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
How long does it take for a Mavis to fly 25 hexes and return?

Mavis has extended radius of 985 miles. 985*2/138mph=14.3 hours. In the game it takes it the same amount of time as any other aircraft. One morning (or afternoon) phase.

[thephalanx1453]

disregard