Supply Truck mechanic need input.

[AlvaroSousa]

I put out ideas.

One issue with what I am reading is the exact nature players are using trucks when it wasn't the intention.

But notice no changes were made in the beta.

[squatter]

I agree probably not move to a new HQ system.

My preference: Make them them 40PP instead of 30PP, and units should only be able to use them when within 5 hexes of an HQ.

[scout1]

Logistics for all nations (including the unlimited powerhouse of the USA) was a pinch point ... The Allies once back on the European continent were living hand to mouth moving supplies from the beach or port to the ever farther front line ....

So I'd suggest (if it isn't too hard to implement) is the # of supply trucks to use per supply point be based on the distance a unit is from a supply base or HQ unit .... The other alternative is to make supply trucks a technology and allow the players to invest in them and improve their ability to supply the front line troops.....

[Jeff_Ahl]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

I put out ideas.

One issue with what I am reading is the exact nature players are using trucks when it wasn't the intention.

But notice no changes were made in the beta.

Yeah, I know no changes have been made yet but I notice that you are very into this change even though nobody (at least in this thread) wants it.

Should the supply trucks cost more? Yeah probably, but no other changes. Really hope you cool down on the changes overall.

I have really appreaciated your baby step-policy and how you have been careful even though we forum hang arounds have been nagging about that, this and that (me included) but your policy clearly are changing. Have not tested a new game since the big change with the navy, but I'll wait til the next patch because it seems even more are on the way. Better to take the whole blow at ones.

You have created a pearl amongst strategy/operational games, be careful how you handle this baby! Changes are good...but not when thrown at at 250 km/h (what ever that is in mp/h)

[AlvaroSousa]

Even if I made this change it wouldn't be in the next patch.

Another idea is cost relative to unit type.

Inf/air 1 supply truck
armor/mech 2 supply trucks.
ahh, ahh, ahh, *lighting and thunder*

[Jeff_Ahl]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Even if I made this change it wouldn't be in the next patch.

Another idea is cost relative to unit type.

Inf/air 1 supply truck
armor/mech 2 supply trucks.
ahh, ahh, ahh, *lighting and thunder*

Well, that could work as well.

[Harrybanana]

Alvaro, although supply trucks may not be working as you intended, I actually think they work very well indeed. Though I think you might be onto something by increasing the cost for armour, mechanized and air units to 2. But in that case I think the cost of supply trucks should be reduced to 20 production.

Also, if your are going to limit supply trucks in some way then please increase the port sizes in the Pas de Calais area of France. As it is as soon as the Allies land a dozen units any excess are in basic supply. In fact the Allies were able to supply a much larger force with the ports they captured even before Antwerp was operational.

[ncc1701e]

Reducing cost of supply trucks is maybe a good idea if we put a max limit. This way, it ease supply trucks building for the next big offensive.

[AlvaroSousa]

I might go with the 2x cost for armor/mech. I've played enough games where I see how the mechanic fails with certain aspects.

[Uxbridge]

I've been off the game for a while due to the blasted Lady Corona having a crush on me, so I haven't read the threads leading up to this one. But I do like the idea "... meant to be used in sparingly for offensives ...", just like the offensives we bought in TSR's European Theater of War. Nowdays I always use as many trucks as I can muster.

Basically, they're fine, but they're also too easy to use. If in stock you can use them immediately without any prior planning.

As a wish, I think that the trucks should be produced in large blocks, maybe 50 trucks in each. Then when you supply the blocks to the front, an HQ must buy it the turn/or any turn before it is to be used. Thus the HQ fill upp with trucks for the future offensive or defensive effort. Buying a block (or several) always inactivate the HQ, that must have been at full OP before the purchase. When it's time for the offensive, the HQ pays with the block just as a single unit would do when buying a truck. Again the HQ's OP is either lost or halved. From that point, however, units within that HQ's command range may buy trucks freely up to the limit of the HQ's collected capacity.

Due to the work involved and risks inherent when changing anything, maybe it could be a thought for WarPlan 2.

[AlvaroSousa]

Been discussing with Hadros because he uses them a lot.

I am leaning on each country can stockpile X amount based on production.
They build more than the stockpile.
armor/mech/air 2x cost ..... air was his idea because he sees how they are used.

He spends ~300 supply trucks and keeps just buying them. What happens is there are greater casualties and less units on the map. Once it snowballs it is hard to stop.

The idea is you can buy X amount and save them. Say 50 trucks.
Opening offensive 1941 you expend them.
Now you can buy them because they are expended so your offensive will continue for a bit, peeter out. Now you build up again.

That was the whole idea. But what I am finding is that players build X force then just buy trucks trucks trucks.

[Uxbridge]

If you only want to reduce the number of trucks in play, can't the game check the number of units capable of using a truck each turn, and have that amount the upper limit of how many can be in the the available box (produced) and production line simultaniously? This way–if I remember the production time for a truck being 3 months correctly–the player has a choice: either let all units use a truck each three months, or have a 1/6 of the armed forces use trucks constantly. This, of course, is the two extremes, the normal being somewhere in between. If possible to do this without game speed taking excess punishment, no forced limit will need to be imposed on each nation; it will be fluid.

To clarify:

Country A has 8 units in play: 4 large corps, 2 divisions and 3 air units, making the theoretical amount of trucks possibly used 20. There's already 2 trucks in the available box and a 10-trucks block in production. Buying a second block would raise the total amount of available and in-production trucks to 22, why the second block would be "inproducable". Expending the 2 trucks in the field, however, would make the production of the second block possible.

[AlvaroSousa]

maybe but I also have to make it a simple rule for an already complex game.

[stjeand]

Simple would be either percent production or total logistics.

Being as they are supply trucks either would be fitting.

Logistics would be constant through the game...where as production would of course fluctuate.

[prince_blucher]

No, I don't like this idea at all. Leave it as it is please. I guess a cost increase like squatter suggests would be acceptable.

[AlvaroSousa]

So everyone give me a count on this...... How many supply trucks do you buy for Barbarossa?

2 players I know bought 250 and 300.

[squatter]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

So everyone give me a count on this...... How many supply trucks do you buy for Barbarossa?

2 players I know bought 250 and 300.

Currently 50 or 60 but perhaps I'm missing a trick on this!

[baloo7777]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

So everyone give me a count on this...... How many supply trucks do you buy for Barbarossa?

2 players I know bought 250 and 300.

I use close to 200 supply trucks in France/Lowlands 1940.
I use 300-350 in 1941 Barbarossa especially using a lot into and through winter of 1942.

Basically an Armor/Mech starting at 100% efficiency in 1940 will be about 80-90% after Lowlands (2 turns) conquered using supply trucks every turn. By 2 turns against France, half the Luftwaffe will be at about 75-80% using supply trucks each turn (4 turns total by now) and at least 1-2 of your 5 fighters will be at 16-18 points/steps even with full repair/replace. You must use almost all your Air/Tank units every turn (allowing for 1-2 resting every other turn, but they don't gain efficiency back quickly enough while on foreign soil and sending them back to Germany 4 turns into the attack on Lowlands/France is difficult and requires at least 2-3 turns).
My supply trucks are down to about 75-100 by now, depending on how many supply trucks my opponent is using/how many Brits I'm going against/how effective his airforce has been/how many times I've been counter-attacked by his armor.

All the more experienced players here in this forum will likely have a clearer understanding of what supply truck amount is needed. I don't feel I'm that far off though.
Without efficiency, the German offensive will wear down to an infantry attack (1-2 hex movement forward per turn, I believe), so I would be careful how much I nerf supply trucks.

Note, while I haven't been playing PBEM of WarGame as long as others, I have played many similar games vs AI over many years and understand overall strategy in WW2 European Theater... and once I have tactics down (so much under the hood in this game so more difficult), I will be a decent opponent.

[AlvaroSousa]

That amount snowballs very quickly. I have an idea of where to go with it but I need more players to respond to the above.

[Nirosi]

Between 120-150. But usually closer to 120.