Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!)

[newageofpower]

ORIGINAL: yutowap33

Supply bases, does it matter where we build them in the zone?

Depends on the logistical AP, AP erosion ratio (sometimes sealed roads are value), etc.

Rule of thumb: Truck IV (old zone) - 15 road - Supply Base II - 15 Road - Truck IV (New Zone)

[DTurtle]

ORIGINAL: yutowap33

Supply bases, does it matter where we build them in the zone?

I addressed this in this post. Maybe I should add some nice pictures to make it more obvious. [;)]

Supply bases provide additional AP to a truck route. However (after we abused it a lot [8D] ), a supply base can only add as many AP to the route as regular AP have been used up at that point.

A level 1 supply base provides 50 AP. A dirt road uses 10 AP per hex, so placing a supply base closer than 5 hexes to the truck station is a waste. A sealed road uses 7 AP per hex, so placing a supply base closer than 7 hexes to the truck station is a waste.

A level 2 supply base provides 75 AP, and a level 3 supply base provides 100 AP. Adjust the building of the supply base as needed. Do remember that placing assets more than 6 hexes from a city increases admin strain.

Also, obviously, any truck points that have been lost due to going above the normal AP of a truck route are gone for good.

[yutowap33]

Thanks, I got confused by the zone logistic panel. It seemed to suggest ranges are cumulative.
So it seems that best practice is to place the supply depot at the end of the optimal range.

Btw the manual says the sealed roads use 10AP. Also in your post it says that we can use two supply depots, but the manual says that only one will count.

[redrum68]

Actually the manual says sealed roads use 5 AP but that is incorrect and they use 7 AP.

For rule of thumb, you should generally place supply depots at the halfway point between 2 truck stations so they get as far from them as possible in both directions along that road to ensure as much AP has been used before it reaches them. And generally they are more useful the larger the distance between two truck stops is (or at least where ever you can ensure it hits the supply depot AP bonus before reaching it).

[DTurtle]

The costs mentioned in Section 5.11.2. about the AP costs were changed in a patch quite a while ago.
The manual says: dirt roads 10 AP, sealed roads 5 AP, railroads 2 AP. The cost on sealed roads was increased to 7 AP and on railroads to 5 AP.


This image clearly shows that the extended AP can be increased. The maximum extended AP never gets refocused/refreshed, but if the truck route goes through a supply depot that provides a higher maximum extended AP then those points are added. So you could start with a level 1 truck station, then a level 1 supply base 5 hexes down the line, refocus 10 hexes further from that with another level 1 truck station, and then have a lvl 3 supply base 5 hexes down the line from there and it will add yet another 5 hexes of range. I don't think that that has any real use, but it's what you could theoretically do.

[yutowap33]

ORIGINAL: redrum68
For rule of thumb, you should generally place supply depots at the halfway point between 2 truck stations so they get as far from them as possible in both directions along that road to ensure as much AP has been used before it reaches them. And generally they are more useful the larger the distance between two truck stops is (or at least where ever you can ensure it hits the supply depot AP bonus before reaching it).

I am not sure this is true, see p2 in the manual:

§ The Range Boost is not cumulative with multiple Supply Bases en
route (if you already have a Supply Base in place and at the end of the
line you are not receiving enough Logistical Points, you should build
another Truck Station somewhere in between).

§ If Trucks passing it by are already beyond optimum range, they will
not be restored to optimum range, but their range will be extended at
their current %.

1) In case of supply between two cities, using a slightly adjusted example from the manual. If you have 2 City with a Private Transport Hub and a 22 hex Dirt Road in between. Then:

If you put the supply depot on hex 5 in either direction you'd get 100% flow.
If you put the supply depot in the middle on hex 11, you'd get 40% flow bottle neck in the middle.

2) In case of supplying the front line (which is what I am planning todo) there is no second truck station, them it is certainly best to put the supply depot just at the optimal range.

* The only complication to this is if you are planning to upgrade your truck depot or road later on.

ORIGINAL: DTurtle
The manual says: dirt roads 10 AP, sealed roads 5 AP, railroads 2 AP. The cost on sealed roads was increased to 7 AP and on railroads to 5 AP.

Good to know both the numbers and where to check this.

[redrum68]

@yutowap33 - Well in the case you have 2 private transport hubs 22 hex apart, you really need to make them public. But yes if the distance between to truck stations is greater than 2x their range then you would need to consider 2 supply depots at optimal range on each side but I find that happens pretty rarely. And yes supplying to a "dead end" with no truck station on the other side means you just want to put the supply depot as close to the truck station where its going to get its max extension bonus.

[Soar_Slitherine]

ORIGINAL: DTurtle
Looking at the SHQ shows you what the points were used for. You CAN change the maximum allowed for each type. You probably shouldn't. Not fulfilling all requested items is usually caused by lacking the resources requested. Missing replacements are usually caused by militia. If you consistently use more than the max allowed, you should probably upgrade your production of logistical points (aka upgrade truck/train stations)

I had to spend some time figuring this out to get the logistics system to cooperate a while back, and the order indicated here isn't correct.

What the game actually does is it adds the unused portion of each category's maximum LP allocation to the maximum for subsequent categories. Making use of leftover LP from the previous categories is the only reason why usage sometimes exceed the set maximums. Unused LP that makes it to the end of REPLACEMENT does not get spent, it's saved for manual strategic movement and such.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: Soar_Slitherine

ORIGINAL: DTurtle
Looking at the SHQ shows you what the points were used for. You CAN change the maximum allowed for each type. You probably shouldn't. Not fulfilling all requested items is usually caused by lacking the resources requested. Missing replacements are usually caused by militia. If you consistently use more than the max allowed, you should probably upgrade your production of logistical points (aka upgrade truck/train stations)

I had to spend some time figuring this out to get the logistics system to cooperate a while back, and the order indicated here isn't correct.

What the game actually does is it adds the unused portion of each category's maximum LP allocation to the maximum for subsequent categories. Making use of leftover LP from the previous categories is the only reason why usage sometimes exceed the set maximums. Unused LP that makes it to the end of REPLACEMENT does not get spent, it's saved for manual strategic movement and such.

If that was the case, SHQ > Zone should never be able to exceed it's limit. After all, there is nothing to give it excess points above it.
But I am 90% sure I saw SHQ > Zone exceed the limits.

[Soar_Slitherine]

I am almost totally certain that when I was experimenting with this, LP left over after REPLACEMENT did not go back to into ZONE > SHQ, despite that category not having enough LP allocated to transfer all the resources. I am 100% certain about the general mechanic of unused LP max getting transferred into the next category - this is why REPLACEMENT never gets any LP on the default settings if there's a bottleneck at ZONE > SHQ (the max settings for ZONE > SHQ and the previous categories add up to 100%, so ZONE > SHQ is permitted to consume up to 100% of available LP).

[mroyer]

After a year of playing SE, I still run into situations with the logistics system I simply can't sort out.

For example, in the following image on the left of the initial logistics, the truck station is generating 760 truck points. Yet, only 99 are being deployed to road hexes in each direction - where are the other 554 points?

If I preview the next turn (image to the right), I see the entire 760 in the hex and a combined 759 (617+142) in east/west road hexes. But, those are top numbers; bottom numbers show only 91. What do the top and bottom numbers indicate and why is the bottom so much less?

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.
-Mark R.

Edit: It works out that the 99 points are from another remote truck station, and the highlighted station isn't deploying any points despite generating 760!
Edit: we're playing v1.09.00 (no beta, in-case there are known issues with that version)

[mroyer]

And, here's another perplexing situation.

Despite my rail between Intervale (SHQ S-1) and Verdun (SHQ S-2) having no less than 2783 rail points in any hex between the two HQ, the transfer trajectory between the two SHQ's only allows for 222 points. How is this calculated? I thought it'd be the full 2783.

[BlueTemplar]

Edit: It works out that the 99 points are from another remote truck station, and the highlighted station isn't deploying any points despite generating 760!

What was the state of the truck station the previous turn and what happens the next turn ?

[mroyer]

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Edit: It works out that the 99 points are from another remote truck station, and the highlighted station isn't deploying any points despite generating 760!

What was the state of the truck station the previous turn and what happens the next turn ?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'state' - as far as I can tell the truck station is and was a operating normally (albeit delegated to another zone) at about 95% efficiency. The right-hand preview image (two posts ago) shows that for the next turn the same is expected (i.e., it will generate 760 truck points but deploy none).

-Mark R.

[BlueTemplar]

I'm afraid that you'll have to post up save(s) for us to take a look at them.

[mroyer]

At the penalty of disclosing 100% perfect intelligence to my opponents (this is a multiplayer game) below is a link to the most recent .se1 game file.
I really need to figure out what is going on as it is crushing operations on my eastern frontier.
(Thanks BlueTemplar for looking!)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/csrmi7xo9gljclk/Onela%20Geminio_Round51_Intervale.se1?dl=0

[BlueTemplar]

You could have sent it passworded, and the password by PM ?

Otherwise it's up to the honor system I guess, or ask for every other player to post his open save, for fairness...

----

Yeah, sadly, with it being an MP game, I am unable to experiment by changing things and running a turn...

You should probably make two bug reports ?

My 2nd guess for the first one would be issues with asset delegation,
EDIT : Are you *really sure* that this truck station hasn't been completed last turn ?

and for the second issue the game wrongly using a shorter route with less points ? (But why 3 logipoints when none of the routes has that left ? And why are *you* seeing 222 ?)

[mroyer]

You could have sent it passworded, and the password by PM ?

Doh... coulda' shoulda' didn't think of it.

----

You should probably make two bug reports ?

Yes, I'll do that. I really appreciate your providing a second pair of eyes. I really didn't want to post it as a potential bug if it was just something obvious I'd overlooked.

My 2nd guess for the first one would be issues with asset delegation,
EDIT : Are you *really sure* that this truck station hasn't been completed last turn ?

yes, I'm sure. It's actually happening to two truck stations (both delegated), but I only posted about one. Also, I've played another turn and it hasn't resolved - my armies are beginning to starve...


-Mark R

[finrodfelagund]

imgur/a/7zbtSsV

I don't know why there are bottlenecks so close to SHQ. Tried rerouting(obviously) but cannot solve it and all that logistics produced by my capital gets wasted in those bottlenecks.

[BlueTemplar]

Most likely : the far away logipoint generators running out of AP ?