Marine Squadrons on Carriers

swagman · Post by **swagman** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:31 am

Marine squadrons come equipped with Wildcats and SBD's. These can be transferred to carriers. Is there any penalty in using marine squadrons on carriers, as historically they were not trained for carrier operations.

This includes any training penalty, since it would take some time for a squadron to master carrier take off and landings, or are the squadrons immediately navalised?

This also applies to tranferring from day to night ops...is there any training delay in changing a unit operations?

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:37 am

No penalties in UV. Be wary of the Long Island which is too small to support flight operations. The other CVE's have enough space to carry AND fly the aircraft.

Nimits · Post by **Nimits** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:32 am

The Long Island can support air ops if the squadron is very small.

Mike_B20 · Post by **Mike_B20** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:34 pm

From what I've read, Marine fighter pilots at least were qualified for carrier operations. It was part of their training.

tiredoftryingnames · Post by **tiredoftryingnames** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:28 pm

I don't know if all received the training, but I've read of Marine squadrons operating from Fleet and Escort Carriers during the war.

Micah Goodman · Post by **Micah Goodman** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:29 pm

Marine Aviators received the same training as Naval Aviators. The U.S. Marine Corps was considered to be technically a part of the Navy. And while they received the same training as the Navy, Marine Corps pilots rarely flew from carriers. In game terms this status I believe is not simulated.

DJAndrews · Post by **DJAndrews** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:15 pm

While it may not be directly related to the fact that they are marine squadrons, a problem can occur when you change the loading of squadrons onto carriers. I've attempted to load two squadrons of fighters onto a CV, reducing either the torpedo or dive bomber squadrons. The result is that a portion of the fighter squadrons get placed in reserve, so that you do not gain the advantage of extra fighters on any particular turn. The reserve aircraft do replace planes shot down, but you are limited to the number of planes that can fly.

Bobthehatchit · Post by **Bobthehatchit** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:37 pm

Mr.Frag wrote:No penalties in UV. Be wary of the Long Island which is too small to support flight operations. The other CVE's have enough space to carry AND fly the aircraft.

I have flow sbd off of long Island with out any problems, she can handle up to 16 planes can't see?

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:11 am

I have flow sbd off of long Island with out any problems, she can handle up to 16 planes can't see?

The LI can handle 16 planes. The marine squadrons are 24 planes. If you happen to come within range for the air group to receive replacements or one of your other CV's gets bombed and has to fly it's planes off, you end up with a situation where the LI happens to be overloaded and unable to launch planes.

This generally happens at the worst possible time and results in the LI making a blub blub blub sound as it is sunk while you sit there wondering why your planes didn't fly. As long as you clearly understand this, it can be used for flight ops, but really, it is simply safer to use it as a air transport moving aircraft between Oz and Noumea without risking the VP. It is worth far too much VP to risk in a questionable encounter unless you really have no choice and generally, when you are in that position in the first place, 16 planes are not going to make a difference.

This goes back into the how to use the USA CV's properly to support the goals of the USA. Risking CV's which are the largest VP value ships in the game without a clear goal worthy of the risk is simply playing into Japan's hands. Japan must sink the USA CV's while they are low in number. It is up to the USA player as to whether or not they want to make Japan's job easier. Even keeping the LI in theater if you do not have a specific need for it is questionable as it just ties up points that could release other ships.

This also treads into the debate of how to use your shipping assets as the Allies. If you don't have use for the ship within a 2 month planned cycle, send it back. It can't be sunk if it is not around to be sunk. Most folks tend to hang on to ships just because they are afraid to send them back. While this logic may apply somewhat to Japan, it is rather silly for the Allied player as their ship allocation continues to grow as the game goes on...

Bobthehatchit · Post by **Bobthehatchit** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:31 pm

Mr.Frag wrote:The LI can handle 16 planes. The marine squadrons are 24 planes. If you happen to come within range for the air group to receive replacements or one of your other CV's gets bombed and has to fly it's planes off, you end up with a situation where the LI happens to be overloaded and unable to launch planes.

This generally happens at the worst possible time and results in the LI making a blub blub blub sound as it is sunk while you sit there wondering why your planes didn't fly. As long as you clearly understand this, it can be used for flight ops, but really, it is simply safer to use it as a air transport moving aircraft between Oz and Noumea without risking the VP. It is worth far too much VP to risk in a questionable encounter unless you really have no choice and generally, when you are in that position in the first place, 16 planes are not going to make a difference.

This goes back into the how to use the USA CV's properly to support the goals of the USA. Risking CV's which are the largest VP value ships in the game without a clear goal worthy of the risk is simply playing into Japan's hands. Japan must sink the USA CV's while they are low in number. It is up to the USA player as to whether or not they want to make Japan's job easier. Even keeping the LI in theater if you do not have a specific need for it is questionable as it just ties up points that could release other ships.

This also treads into the debate of how to use your shipping assets as the Allies. If you don't have use for the ship within a 2 month planned cycle, send it back. It can't be sunk if it is not around to be sunk. Most folks tend to hang on to ships just because they are afraid to send them back. While this logic may apply somewhat to Japan, it is rather silly for the Allied player as their ship allocation continues to grow as the game goes on...

Sorry I was not clear, I meant Marine dive-bombed squadrons which are usually restricted to 16 aircraft.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:31 pm

Bob, just a little tidbit, with WitP, air units that are not CV based will take a hit in the operational loss catagory ... 50/50 chance this will end up retrofit into UV 2.40/2.50/etc someday.

Daniel Oskar · Post by **Daniel Oskar** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:35 am

tiredoftryingnames wrote:I don't know if all received the training, but I've read of Marine squadrons operating from Fleet and Escort Carriers during the war.

All USMC pilots did carrier qualification as a part of flight school, as did USN students. This is a very perishable skill though, the mishap rate would skyrocket if you were to grab the average Marine squadron and stick them on the boat without the benifit of a workup. Lundstrom even details a case of a big deck carrier ferrying Marine aircraft to Guadalcanal using their Navy pilots to get the marine birds aboard.