Empire of the Sun - DesertWolf101 (J) vs Andy Mac (A)

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

January 12-13, 1942

Japanese battleships continue with their regular bombardments of Vladivostok. I am not getting as many supply hits as I would like (an average of only 1-2 per bombardment) but the battleships are destroying and damaging many Soviet guns which eventually should open the door for extensive air bombing.

Given the lack of coastal gun shots, I guess you bombard from very long range, if not max range for the 356mm ? It does have an influence on the number of hits. You might close the distance a bit.

From memory, there are a couple of heavy caliber guns (305-356mm, I think 9 total), and a few 203mm (not many), which all have a range over 30. The 180mm have much shorter range, but the 40 or so 130mm have a good range (around 20 IIRC) but will lack the penetration (however, beware the fires). Bombardments at range 25 should be still relatively safe.

You guessed correctly. My battleships are firing at range 39 which greatly insulates them from any Soviet return fire. I have noticed that even when they are hit at that range the effect is minimal even with superstructure hits. During one bombardment for instance, Musashi received 3 superstructure hits and had 0 system damage to show for it. I am tempted to close the range some more since that should increase the battleships' accuracy but at the same time I am doing quite good damage at this range and I don't want to risk my ships too much. I think what I will do is wait a bit until more Soviet guns are destroyed (including hopefully more of their coastal guns) and then incrementally close the range. Here is the latest bombardment result btw. Even with their large artillery replacement rates I don't think the Soviets can afford this type of sustained gun losses.

[Ambassador]

Indeed, replacement rates should not sustain a regular destruction like this, if it is not FOW.
And at least, every gun they replace expends some supply too.

At range 39, only the 305mm of Vlad’s Fortress fire, not the 356mm. That’s probably the reason of the lack of effect.

[DesertWolf101]

January 17, 1943

Not much to update on for the past week or so aside from Operation Furnace's intensification. I decided to send in my bombers now that Vladivostok has been quite well plastered. Sure enough, there is a marked decrease in the density of the enemy flak but the Japanese bombers overwhelmingly scored runaway hits and barely any supply hits. At least I am forcing Andy's AA gunners to expend supply.

I am also detecting a major effort on Andy's part to strike at my battleships. Andy has brought in a sizable number of bombers to Voroshilov. He has also sent in large packs of Allied submarines which have been detected en route to Vladivostok in what I assume to at least in part consist of a massive minelaying effort. I am trying to intervene and attack the subs but I don't think I can prevent the minefield from being formed. So thinking ahead, the question is what is the best way to remove a minefield under Vladivostok's daunting coastal defense guns? Does shelling at long long-range minimize the chances of hitting a mine relative to standard bombardment ranges?

[GetAssista]

You better look closer on how much supply those bombardments cost you. They are quite a hog.

For the reference, daily bombardments by 6 slower older IJN BBs use more supply than the whole of (mostly intact) India produces.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

You better look closer on how much supply those bombardments cost you. They are quite a hog.

For the reference, daily bombardments by 6 slower older IJN BBs use more supply than the whole of (mostly intact) India produces.

Yes indeed, they do consume quite a lot of supply. I think I am using about 7,000 supply per bombardment run which is quite a lot. The pace of bombardments should decrease quite a bit however once I batter his artillery a bit more, if not indeed entirely by his minefield tactics. We shall see.

[DesertWolf101]

January 18, 1943

With the Soviet flak seemingly battered, I decided to preempt Andy's Soviet bombers by striking their base at Voroshilov. In a series of raids, 16 Soviet aircraft were destroyed on the ground and the clearly weakened flak knocked out only 4 of my bombers this time.

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

You better look closer on how much supply those bombardments cost you. They are quite a hog.

For the reference, daily bombardments by 6 slower older IJN BBs use more supply than the whole of (mostly intact) India produces.

Yes indeed, they do consume quite a lot of supply. I think I am using about 7,000 supply per bombardment run which is quite a lot. The pace of bombardments should decrease quite a bit however once I batter his artillery a bit more, if not indeed entirely by his minefield tactics. We shall see.

There is no easy way to take Vladivostok. I think it’s supply well invested, as it consumes supply from the defenders and inflicts damage. I believe 1 supply hit may destroy up to 1% of the supply stockpiled in the base, depending on the weapon’s values and fort levels.

By the way, your 7000 figure looks high. Supply cost for rearming a ship is Ream Cost x number of guns x number of ammo / 2000. Yamato has 9 46cm guns (rearm cost 6440) with 9 ammo per gun, leading to 260 supply for a full main armament rearm. Ise-class BB (and Fuso too) have 12 36cm guns (rearm cost 2970) with 12 ammo, leading to 213 supply for a full main guns rearm. Kongo’s only have 8 36cm guns with 12 ammo, so 142 supplies, while Nagato’s 8 40cm (rearm 4500) with 10 ammo need 180.
You look like you use 4 Ise’s (4x213), 2 Yamato’s (2x260), 2 Nagato’s (2x180) and 2 Kongo’s (2x142), for a total of 2016 supplies.

If Andy has more than 200k supply in Vladivostock, you might actually directly destroy more supply than your bombardment run consumes, but the other benefits are still neat (destroyed devices require supply to be replaced)

EDIT : if you do reduce the frequency of your bombardments, I recommend reducing the range of your bombardments. You’ll incur some damage, but if you use your BBs less frequently, you have time to let them repair what should be mostly minor damage.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

You better look closer on how much supply those bombardments cost you. They are quite a hog.

For the reference, daily bombardments by 6 slower older IJN BBs use more supply than the whole of (mostly intact) India produces.

Yes indeed, they do consume quite a lot of supply. I think I am using about 7,000 supply per bombardment run which is quite a lot. The pace of bombardments should decrease quite a bit however once I batter his artillery a bit more, if not indeed entirely by his minefield tactics. We shall see.

There is no easy way to take Vladivostok. I think it’s supply well invested, as it consumes supply from the defenders and inflicts damage. I believe 1 supply hit may destroy up to 1% of the supply stockpiled in the base, depending on the weapon’s values and fort levels.

By the way, your 7000 figure looks high. Supply cost for rearming a ship is Ream Cost x number of guns x number of ammo / 2000. Yamato has 9 46cm guns (rearm cost 6440) with 9 ammo per gun, leading to 260 supply for a full main armament rearm. Ise-class BB (and Fuso too) have 12 36cm guns (rearm cost 2970) with 12 ammo, leading to 213 supply for a full main guns rearm. Kongo’s only have 8 36cm guns with 12 ammo, so 142 supplies, while Nagato’s 8 40cm (rearm 4500) with 10 ammo need 180.
You look like you use 4 Ise’s (4x213), 2 Yamato’s (2x260), 2 Nagato’s (2x180) and 2 Kongo’s (2x142), for a total of 2016 supplies.

If Andy has more than 200k supply in Vladivostock, you might actually directly destroy more supply than your bombardment run consumes, but the other benefits are still neat (destroyed devices require supply to be replaced)

EDIT : if you do reduce the frequency of your bombardments, I recommend reducing the range of your bombardments. You’ll incur some damage, but if you use your BBs less frequently, you have time to let them repair what should be mostly minor damage.

It is entirely possible that my calculations there were off so thank you for the more accurate estimate. In any case I agree it is worth the supply. This last turn I am pretty sure the battleships wiped out two enemy units at Vladivostok. There were 11 Soviet LCUs there and now it's 9 and I haven't seen the number at Voroshilov (86) go up or any indication of movement between the two bases.

In terms of Soviet supply, I would be shocked if Andy had only 200k in the Vladivostok pocket given the date I attacked and the fact that he knew I was coming and had time to stockpile. I am operating under the assumption that he has more like a million to a million and half supply in the pocket, maybe even more. To be sure this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

I am pulling back my BBs for some quick refit and repair and to give me some time to assess the situation with the enemy sub activity and likely minefield. When they come back I will likely attempt some closer range bombardments. In the meantime the IJAAF has picked up the pace with some good results. I find I score way more supply hits in my raids on Voroshilov in comparison to the bomber raids on Vladivostok. Maybe something to do with Vlad's higher fortification levels? Here is my latest raid on Voroshilov for instance:

[Ambassador]

I think Voroshilov would have level 6 forts, maybe 7, but most probably not higher. I may be wrong.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

You better look closer on how much supply those bombardments cost you. They are quite a hog.

For the reference, daily bombardments by 6 slower older IJN BBs use more supply than the whole of (mostly intact) India produces.

Yes indeed, they do consume quite a lot of supply. I think I am using about 7,000 supply per bombardment run which is quite a lot. The pace of bombardments should decrease quite a bit however once I batter his artillery a bit more, if not indeed entirely by his minefield tactics. We shall see.

Usually you are better off not taking out all those (flak) guns because they do use an insane amount of supplies. It seems like there is no difference if one aircraft attacks or 1000, flak fires always the same amount of supplies into the air. At least that was my impression during being sieged. I had bases that used more than 1000 supply per day and when I moved the flak out it dropped to 2-300 with the same air attacks each day. So if you have bombers that can fly high enough that enables them not being shot down in droves you will reduce the enemy's supply faster with air attacks against lots of flak because the flak eats so much supplies. At least that's my experience.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

I think Voroshilov would have level 6 forts, maybe 7, but most probably not higher. I may be wrong.

Vladivostok is even worse, already starting at level 9, at least in Babes. Heavy urban, impossible to take at acceptable costs if at all as long as the enemy has any supplies. 12,000 Allied av couldn't take Calcutta from me (against 2,000 av) as I had level 9 forts and it's also heavy urban.

The good thing about heavy urban is that you can easily make it an Allied POW camp forever. All you need is a POW garrison and the enemy will never be able to dislodge you. As soon as the enemy is completely out of supply it takes halve a year to starve several hundred thousand enemy troops to death. Been there, done that.

[Evoken]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

I think Voroshilov would have level 6 forts, maybe 7, but most probably not higher. I may be wrong.

Vladivostok is even worse, already starting at level 9, at least in Babes. Heavy urban, impossible to take at acceptable costs if at all as long as the enemy has any supplies. 12,000 Allied av couldn't take Calcutta from me (against 2,000 av) as I had level 9 forts and it's also heavy urban.

The good thing about heavy urban is that you can easily make it an Allied POW camp forever. All you need is a POW garrison and the enemy will never be able to dislodge you. As soon as the enemy is completely out of supply it takes halve a year to starve several hundred thousand enemy troops to death. Been there, done that.

Your situation was different , your opponent managed to lose to air and naval superiority , also had no land connection to supply etc. Wolf here has both air and naval superiority plus he has the potential to bombard everyday with his battleships which should skyrocket disruption on troops at Vladivostok

[29000Kevin]

ORIGINAL: Evoken

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

I think Voroshilov would have level 6 forts, maybe 7, but most probably not higher. I may be wrong.

Vladivostok is even worse, already starting at level 9, at least in Babes. Heavy urban, impossible to take at acceptable costs if at all as long as the enemy has any supplies. 12,000 Allied av couldn't take Calcutta from me (against 2,000 av) as I had level 9 forts and it's also heavy urban.

The good thing about heavy urban is that you can easily make it an Allied POW camp forever. All you need is a POW garrison and the enemy will never be able to dislodge you. As soon as the enemy is completely out of supply it takes halve a year to starve several hundred thousand enemy troops to death. Been there, done that.

Your situation was different , your opponent managed to lose to air and naval superiority , also had no land connection to supply etc. Wolf here has both air and naval superiority plus he has the potential to bombard everyday with his battleships which should skyrocket disruption on troops at Vladivostok

Your right, in CT's game the Allies attempted to escape by marching and driving through the Ganges Delta to avoid CT's army and escape to India but CT defeated his already battered armored forces with his own and trapped roughly 700,000 US, British and Indian Soldiers in a small pocket in a Mangrove Forest filled with Tigers...

Half a year later with constant aerial bombing the Allies were finally starved of supplies and defeated.

But in Wolfs game he still has the ability to starve supplies by bombarding Andy's city via Battleships, however BB bombardment burns a lot of supplies, still taking 1 supply point from a Airport or Port will always hurt.

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

I think Voroshilov would have level 6 forts, maybe 7, but most probably not higher. I may be wrong.

Vladivostok is even worse, already starting at level 9, at least in Babes. Heavy urban, impossible to take at acceptable costs if at all as long as the enemy has any supplies. 12,000 Allied av couldn't take Calcutta from me (against 2,000 av) as I had level 9 forts and it's also heavy urban.

The good thing about heavy urban is that you can easily make it an Allied POW camp forever. All you need is a POW garrison and the enemy will never be able to dislodge you. As soon as the enemy is completely out of supply it takes halve a year to starve several hundred thousand enemy troops to death. Been there, done that.

Vlad starts at level 9 forts in stock, indeed. But it’s still possible to win such a siege, albeit it’s costly and long.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

I think Voroshilov would have level 6 forts, maybe 7, but most probably not higher. I may be wrong.

Vladivostok is even worse, already starting at level 9, at least in Babes. Heavy urban, impossible to take at acceptable costs if at all as long as the enemy has any supplies. 12,000 Allied av couldn't take Calcutta from me (against 2,000 av) as I had level 9 forts and it's also heavy urban.

The good thing about heavy urban is that you can easily make it an Allied POW camp forever. All you need is a POW garrison and the enemy will never be able to dislodge you. As soon as the enemy is completely out of supply it takes halve a year to starve several hundred thousand enemy troops to death. Been there, done that.

Vlad starts at level 9 forts in stock, indeed. But it’s still possible to win such a siege, albeit it’s costly and long.

From what I can see Vlad is also not a heavy urban hex but rather a woods hex (x2) which makes a huge difference.

[29000Kevin]

If its a Woods hex then this changes everything we thought couldn've happened if the city was considered a heavy urban hex, this means it is significantly much more easier and plausible to defeat the entire army their in a reflectively "short" period of 6 months or more with constant air attacks on the port and Airport + bombardments.

However it means the that turning the city into a POW camp is much more harder without the insane defence bonuses that heavy Urban hexes provide.

[DesertWolf101]

January 21, 1943

Looks like the game is afoot. All of a sudden, large-scale Allied troop movements are detected all over India. I think Andy's offensive in the subcontinent is about to happen. I was seriously considering a strong defense but I won't be ready for that until the arrival of half a dozen more divisions from the Soviet front so it may very well be too late for that. Andy's airpower has continued to grow over the past weeks/months and it's looking daunting too. I don't relish a fight with his divisions in the open with that kind of air support. Now I am thinking of a gradual retreat into Burma and delaying action elsewhere. I'm lucky I have naval superiority as that should allow me some flexibility for sea withdrawals when necessary. I will leave a residual garrison in Calcutta and maybe Bombay to hold out for as long as possible.

Meanwhile, Andy has also pulled back his motorized and mechanized Soviet units from the front in the north and I strongly suspect he will send them through Alma-Ata into China. I can't get enough supply up there for a strong stand so I will likely pull back there as well to more defensible lines. With 1943 here the high-water mark of the Japanese Empire's advance in this game is clearly over. It's been a fun ride, now for the grind.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin

ORIGINAL: Evoken

ORIGINAL: castor troy




Vladivostok is even worse, already starting at level 9, at least in Babes. Heavy urban, impossible to take at acceptable costs if at all as long as the enemy has any supplies. 12,000 Allied av couldn't take Calcutta from me (against 2,000 av) as I had level 9 forts and it's also heavy urban.

The good thing about heavy urban is that you can easily make it an Allied POW camp forever. All you need is a POW garrison and the enemy will never be able to dislodge you. As soon as the enemy is completely out of supply it takes halve a year to starve several hundred thousand enemy troops to death. Been there, done that.

Your situation was different , your opponent managed to lose to air and naval superiority , also had no land connection to supply etc. Wolf here has both air and naval superiority plus he has the potential to bombard everyday with his battleships which should skyrocket disruption on troops at Vladivostok

Your right, in CT's game the Allies attempted to escape by marching and driving through the Ganges Delta to avoid CT's army and escape to India but CT defeated his already battered armored forces with his own and trapped roughly 700,000 US, British and Indian Soldiers in a small pocket in a Mangrove Forest filled with Tigers...

Half a year later with constant aerial bombing the Allies were finally starved of supplies and defeated.

But in Wolfs game he still has the ability to starve supplies by bombarding Andy's city via Battleships, however BB bombardment burns a lot of supplies, still taking 1 supply point from a Airport or Port will always hurt.

You don't get my point guys. You're true judging the overal outcome in my game but the main and first reason why it turned out like it has was the fact that the equivalent of 40! Allied divisions plus 110 other units as support weren't able to take a heavy urban hex with level 9 forts defended by something like 5 IJA divs. That was the main reason why all failed. And that was the reason why he had to march out of Calcutta/Diamond Harbour at some point which ended in the complete encirclement.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

ORIGINAL: castor troy




Vladivostok is even worse, already starting at level 9, at least in Babes. Heavy urban, impossible to take at acceptable costs if at all as long as the enemy has any supplies. 12,000 Allied av couldn't take Calcutta from me (against 2,000 av) as I had level 9 forts and it's also heavy urban.

The good thing about heavy urban is that you can easily make it an Allied POW camp forever. All you need is a POW garrison and the enemy will never be able to dislodge you. As soon as the enemy is completely out of supply it takes halve a year to starve several hundred thousand enemy troops to death. Been there, done that.

Vlad starts at level 9 forts in stock, indeed. But it’s still possible to win such a siege, albeit it’s costly and long.

From what I can see Vlad is also not a heavy urban hex but rather a woods hex (x2) which makes a huge difference.

Ohhh! Vladivostok is a wooden hex? Hmmm, always had it in mind as a heavy urban hex, have to check that too in my game. x2 def bonus of course is entirely different then.

[29000Kevin]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

January 21, 1943

Looks like the game is afoot. All of a sudden, large-scale Allied troop movements are detected all over India. I think Andy's offensive in the subcontinent is about to happen. I was seriously considering a strong defense but I won't be ready for that until the arrival of half a dozen more divisions from the Soviet front so it may very well be too late for that. Andy's airpower has continued to grow over the past weeks/months and it's looking daunting too. I don't relish a fight with his divisions in the open with that kind of air support. Now I am thinking of a gradual retreat into Burma and delaying action elsewhere. I'm lucky I have naval superiority as that should allow me some flexibility for sea withdrawals when necessary. I will leave a residual garrison in Calcutta and maybe Bombay to hold out for as long as possible.

Meanwhile, Andy has also pulled back his motorized and mechanized Soviet units from the front in the north and I strongly suspect he will send them through Alma-Ata into China. I can't get enough supply up there for a strong stand so I will likely pull back there as well to more defensible lines. With 1943 here the high-water mark of the Japanese Empire's advance in this game is clearly over. It's been a fun ride, now for the grind.

It has been obvious for the last few months that Andy was planning something big in India with the signs beginning signs of the Battle of the Arabian Sea, the Soviet Bomber squadrons incident, KB's first attack on a large Convoy, the destruction of the last USN fleet Carriers, the extremely limited amount of naval traffic in Australia, the huge mega Allied Convoys escaping via storms... by the way why did you not just attack the allied convoys with your Surface ships, did they all fail to intercept it or was it too dangerous or something and the 1000 planes spotted on a base incident...

The pieces were their right in front of us, Andy has gone and placed all his eggs into one region.

Unfortunately for you the Rainy season June - September is over.

The best you can do now is destroy the Industry of India with a fighting retreat (for regions that have industry), use layered CAP to catch the Bombers, deploy the Tojo's to exterminate the Allied pools, send in your own bombers to punish his air bases without any cap, stockpile your supplies to Calcutta ASAP, make at stand at Calcutta, if the city gets surrounded turn it into a Stalingrad, make a defensive line in Burma and try to evacuate supplies and fuel to Ceylon.

And get KB ready to CAP trap any unsuspecting Bombers.

The Soviet Air force does exist but its threat is mostly minimal with the exception with the Battleships.

However I will warn you that I'm no expert so its up to your discretion on what you plan to do for the future of this campaign.

Heck you could do a full Air attack on the West Coast of America alongside a Battleship bombardment to damage Andy's Air factories and delay the arrival of late war planes and also destroy his old American BB's, I have seen the P-51H factory being bombed by the IJN Ise once before in a PBEM game where the Japan player launched a full scale invasion of the WC and failed to achieve the desired results. still it was bloody epic to watch it.

Attacking their is not that wise unless we want to destroy the American Battleship fleet, catch some CVE and kill some precious Tankers and meanwhile waste a lot of Japanese fuel.


Better yet you could attack Perl Harbour finally if he has moved the majority of his Air force to India or attack Australia again although not much can be accomplished, also LBA get progressively more dangerous in the South Pacific as 1943 ticks by so the risk might not be worth it.

Attacking Perl Harbour could land us a nice list of ship kills with some Oilers but we will get more mission kills than actual kills if the Battleships distract the bombers.
Australia doesn't seem that worth it since their ismnot much activities going on.

The choices are limitness with KB, but focusing on the front where Andy has all his eggs is probably the right decision to call since the RN might climb out of its closet to conduct Bombardments.