Warplan is a World War 2 simulation engine. It is a balance of realism and playability incorporating the best from 50 years of World War 2 board wargaming.
Suggestion here- on the turn that both of these conditions are fulfilled at the end of the allied turn-
1) Lilly is axis controlled
2) One or more axis armour/mech units are within three hex of Paris
all allied units get retreated prior to the start of the next axis south of the Seine or east of the Meuse whichever distance is shorter. This to be done by the AI much like the goings on when Vichy is declared. Rationale? In the real world the feckless French leaders did declare Paris an open city and the end came soon after that.
Michael
The trouble with this is that this disadvantages allied players who do not use these extreme defences.
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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi
Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
Suggestion here- on the turn that both of these conditions are fulfilled at the end of the allied turn-
1) Lilly is axis controlled
2) One or more axis armour/mech units are within three hex of Paris
all allied units get retreated prior to the start of the next axis south of the Seine or east of the Meuse whichever distance is shorter. This to be done by the AI much like the goings on when Vichy is declared. Rationale? In the real world the feckless French leaders did declare Paris an open city and the end came soon after that.
Michael
The trouble with this is that this disadvantages allied players who do not use these extreme defences.
Yes, we can't let the Germans win easily. Don't forget that if German victory is quick, it means Yugoslavia in 1940 and plenty of other options.
We can't expect the Allies to be as bad as historically. Players will be better. A victory in June is impossible against a good Allied player.
The problem is the shape of the German army after invading France. If Germany is exhausted, losing all tanks, all planes, it means no Barbarossa or perhaps in 1942 with the new rules.
Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
I'm against reducing UK experience levels because that will change the game way beyond the France problem Would make it much easier for axis to overrun the middle east for example and then do a '42 Barbarossa with lots of petrol. Solves 1 problem then creates another. Same problem with manpower changes.
Re early experience, I think the British army pre-war was the only regular arm, and was initially filled out by reservist and Territorials ( 'the weekend soldiers'), so not a bunch of conscripts on a par with continental armies of France, Belgium, Holland and Italy.
For what it is worth, I never put more than 1 HQ, 4 inf xxx and 1 mech xxx in France. Occasionally a fighter or 2 but usually none.
You have made a very valid point about the UK regular army. UK deserves keeping its 50% experience.
Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
Well lets look at what most of my Axis games look like.
France will normally fall August. I run units back and take Yugo before the rains. Then Greece is a mixed bag.
In the game I am playing currently against Silly...I took France in...late July? But he does not go all in, in France.
In this game I lost an Axis Mech and my entire airforce has been rebuilt from the ground up.
That cost is high but Barbarossa is coming, lets see if it was too high.
Against Comadre it was July and both Axis sides had been hammered. My Axis had lost 2 armor corps (never retreated when there was as spot behind them which was weird)...his Axis had lost 3 Inf corps and 1 armor corps, and we both knew the Axis was done. I think he would have taken Paris but would have cost him another 2 corps somewhere...my armor had no bite left...trucks were no longer useful and far to expensive.
I think I will do what Silly is doing and limit my units in France for start to see how that does.
Basic problem? The Belgians, Dutch, and French units have over rated experience levels, as do the Italians and others. Reduce D and B levels by 20, and French by 10. I put the Italians at 15.
B and N both die in 1 turn with minimal G losses so they aren't an obstacle at all.
Reduce F exp. and it unbalances 1940 and would force UK to have to follow the ridiculous strategy which I would like to stop.
As to the Italians at 15, Italy would fall in'41 every game, and in '40 vs a competent UK player. An aggressive allied player might manage it in '39. The only counter would be massive German support (assuming Italy could survive on its own for 2 turns which is unlikely. In either scenario the G commitment to W Europe would make Barbarossa as successful as Napoleon was in 1815.
Fun for me as allies (once anyway) but I would probably not find an opponent who had played the game before..................
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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi
Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
As for the Italias...their experience does them no good to be honest. They can barely move a UK corp with 2 Mech units. So lowering their experience would cause them to get taken out in 41...then the war will be over for Germany as they can not fight on two fronts.
You would have to change their units to have lower exp and highter STR to make up for the losses.
Because their corps are just 20...their experience fits. Honestly those units can't do anything other than be a police force that delays the Allies like the USSR units do against the Germans.
I disagree with the premise that France is to hard to take, yes if the Allied player is good and goes all in they can delay the Germans and with an inexperienced German player even hold it, but that is historical the fall of France was not a forgone conclusion, the downside for the Allies is going all in on France is risky if you lose to many Brits, strip the middle east or, don't build escorts the allies are risking serious consequences if the longshot gamble fails.
I disagree with the premise that France is to hard to take, yes if the Allied player is good and goes all in they can delay the Germans and with an inexperienced German player even hold it, but that is historical the fall of France was not a forgone conclusion, the downside for the Allies is going all in on France is risky if you lose to many Brits, strip the middle east or, don't build escorts the allies are risking serious consequences if the longshot gamble fails.
This is correct. As the Italians you can counter this buy building landing craft and landing in Syria, Palestine, Egypt if they go all out. If they ignore the uboat war they will be crippled. While loading up France is a good idea there is still balance in how.
With hindsight I expect France to fall July or August depending on the skill level of the German player.
Not really Alvaro because this strategy stops G from taking Paris before they are trashed, so the Italians are no help. Also as ComadrejaKorp has explained, he put 3 canadian xxx into the middle east by July '40 so Italians won't get far.
The fact is, the current arrangements encourage this problem in France and it it is a game-breaker. If you don't believe it, perhaps you should try playing G for 12 months vs Comad etc or stjeand and see how you do as G. I'll play allied if you like - now I know how it's done.
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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi
Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
Good idea, a match ComadrejaKorp (Allies) - Alvaro (Axis). The first 27 turns of the game.
The thing is I don't give up myself. In my current AAR, I will try to avoid doing mistakes. [:D]
Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
I am more than happy to play the Allies to validate the all in strategy. You will even know this ahead and can build what you want for the Italians hoping to attack whereever.
I will be glad to put up the AAR too.
Keep in mind when I tried this...I has played a total of zero games against players. Only one player out of 3 actually took France and he had started attacking in Oct of 39 after I made a tactical error on the border.
I am sure ComadreKorp would have taken France...but his loses were going too be overwelming for the future to continue. Same for me attacking him.
I believe he had 10 UK corps in France and 5 in the Middle East.
I had 3 UK armor, 1 UK Mech and 1 French Mech, and 4 or 5 UK Inf corps And there were at least 3 UK corps in the UK and 3 in the Middle East.
My BOA was not making a scratch against his MM...I believe by the end of 39 I had not sunk 12 of MM...my BOA luck is far from good or even near average. I have to figure out what I may be doing wrong.
NOW I do not plan to play this way anymore but knowing human nature and desire to win...heck who would not?
NOW I do not plan to play this way anymore but knowing human nature and desire to win...heck who would not?
I just wanted to bring this up...
Why? The game allows it. Alvaro must be right, personally, I am not skilled enough that's all.
I will see in my current game with ComadrejaKorp.
Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
Not really Alvaro because this strategy stops G from taking Paris before they are trashed, so the Italians are no help. Also as ComadrejaKorp has explained, he put 3 canadian xxx into the middle east by July '40 so Italians won't get far.
The fact is, the current arrangements encourage this problem in France and it it is a game-breaker. If you don't believe it, perhaps you should try playing G for 12 months vs Comad etc or stjeand and see how you do as G. I'll play allied if you like - now I know how it's done.
Alvaro
I've just noticed that you've got Pacific coming out next month, so it's not fair to ask you put in much time on this issue
I'm happy to take on any other Nazi who thinks he can beat this strategy, and to do an AAR
web exchange
Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi
Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
Not really Alvaro because this strategy stops G from taking Paris before they are trashed, so the Italians are no help. Also as ComadrejaKorp has explained, he put 3 canadian xxx into the middle east by July '40 so Italians won't get far.
The fact is, the current arrangements encourage this problem in France and it it is a game-breaker. If you don't believe it, perhaps you should try playing G for 12 months vs Comad etc or stjeand and see how you do as G. I'll play allied if you like - now I know how it's done.
Alvaro
I've just noticed that you've got Pacific coming out next month, so it's not fair to ask you put in much time on this issue
I'm happy to take on any other Nazi who thinks he can beat this strategy, and to do an AAR
I think ComadrejaKorp can beat it. Am I wrong Alex?
Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.
He would have beaten it in our game...and I do not feel I was as all in as he was. I still had a UK armor in England that I could have brought over.
But he had lost 3 Inf Corps and an Armored corps. Should have been 2 armor but I failed to understand supply once again and suicided my full strength UK Mech.
The Germans can't lose 5 or 6 corps taking France and have a chance...In my eyes they can't lose anything corps if they want to win.
I lost a Mech against Silly and a whole lot of planes...and think that may be too much for the USSR. BUT we will see in a couple of months as this is my first game with the new rules getting that far.
