How to ruin the game?

[sillyflower]

The trouble with this in game terms is that it changes the balance of the game rather than solving this particular problem.
One can say the same of Germany fielding more armoured corps in France '40 than were deployed at the start of Barbarossa despite the fact that the '41 TOEs had a lot fewer tanks.

This is a game not a simulation so we should stop trying to turn it from a great game into a poor simulation. WP was never designed to be a simulation so it will never be a good one.

After all there is a very simple way of completely solving UK spam in France - limit the numbers which can be sent. No need to changing the balance anywhere else.

[Jeff_Ahl]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: Jeff_Ahl

Limit the manpower for UK and Canada.

The last time I suggested this, everyone was against me. [:D]
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4952399

Can not understand why. It is a quick easy fix. One thing that always been strange with this game. You can have several Army Groups with UK and Canada. They where never near that IRL and would never have been able either even if all production would been focused...because of the manpower issues.

[ComadrejaKorp]

After all there is a very simple way of completely solving UK spam in France - limit the numbers which can be sent. No need to changing the balance anywhere else.

So far the SillyFlower solution seems to be working fine in our current game.

Although this does not mean that there is another better solution.

[ComadrejaKorp]

Question is whether this is a "game" issue or merely a tactic which if attempted historically could have changed the course of events ...

I like your approach!
If we are really starting with the correct data on the production capacity and experience of the troops in the different countries, it was the Allies who failed, not us. (:

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

This is a game not a simulation so we should stop trying to turn it from a great game into a poor simulation. WP was never designed to be a simulation so it will never be a good one.

Totally agree, I don't want a simulation. I think we are searching a correct balance. The game is great.

Alvaro once said that he would like a fun and balanced game until the end, which is 1945.
With the "All In" strategy, this is game over for the Axis in 1940.

[Flaviusx]

Modest proposal: if folks think the allies can be too easily gamed here to make France difficult, switch over to the 1940 scenario which avoids this. German OB is practically the same as it would be otherwise. France should fall by early July at the latest at reasonable cost.

The Western Allies in general are a bit weaker in this scenario and Britain will have to scramble a bit to cover the middle east. The Soviet OB has some interesting differences and will be a somewhat stronger than otherwise, to balance things out. Both sides start their tech research from scratch, as per the 39 start, so some research is lost here.

[ComadrejaKorp]

Modest proposal: if folks think the allies can be too easily gamed here to make France difficult, switch over to the 1940 scenario which avoids this

It is the quickest and most logical solution, without a doubt.Thanks.

But since we are addicts, I believe that nobody wants to give up a year of war, or the pleasure of building your own army.

I never played this scenario, I should try it.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: ComadrejaKorp

After all there is a very simple way of completely solving UK spam in France - limit the numbers which can be sent. No need to changing the balance anywhere else.

So far the SillyFlower solution seems to be working fine in our current game.

Silly, how do you translate that in game rules? How to limit the numbers which can be sent?

[Flaviusx]

I personally like the 1940 scenario a lot and think it is better balanced and leads to a more historical game. I don't think I'll be playing the 39 scenario anymore. Not in PBEM. Too much min maxing and cheese going on.

[stjeand]

ncc...

What ComadrejaKorp and myself will be doing in the future is 11 divisions can be sent to France...all must be Infantry.
NOW that does not help Africa...but one step at a time.

When I play Silly he only sends about that many...but he likes to sneak in a Mech unit...and in the game we are in took shattered one of mine with it as I forgot to leave it a retreat. The again the retreats for German armor might be at issue...not that I heard there was a change. But I lost 3 so far in this new version and they have spots to retreat, just did not. And I do not use hold on panzer. But we will see if that is just bad luck.

I think the fix would be tougher...it would have to be something forcing the UK to garrison units in the UK and Egypt.
Not sure if you can set that at a "level" like that or it is just units. Though what would be the penalty if you broke this?

The 1940 scenario might work. Would be willing to test it.

[ncc1701e]

Okay but this is a house rule.

ORIGINAL: stjeand

When I play Silly he only sends about that many...but he likes to sneak in a Mech unit...and in the game we are in took shattered one of mine with it as I forgot to leave it a retreat. The again the retreats for German armor might be at issue...not that I heard there was a change. But I lost 3 so far in this new version and they have spots to retreat, just did not. And I do not use hold on panzer. But we will see if that is just bad luck.

Am I the only one to think that armored corps or mechanized corps are shattering too easily?

[stjeand]

Mine have been...guess we will see.

I am in Russia against the USSR now...

Lost a Mech in France...my fault.
Lost an armor in Africa...something went really crazy.

24 str armor with antitank...fully dug in. Attacked by air 6 times and a carrier. Then infantry at 1/1 pounded it...lost 11 in 2 attacks. Then armor rolled in. Armor NEVER retreated and shattered. Africa ended before it began.

THOUGH Silly goes insanely silly in Africa the Axis have no chance. 6 air units, most of the none sub hunting navy to snipe air on defense and 75% of the UK army. Looks like 8 or 9 corps plus maybe 6 divisions.

Germany can't field that in Africa and be in supply...and the air can not defend because the ships just smash them so....

Maybe in the next patch.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: stjeand

Mine have been...guess we will see.

I am in Russia against the USSR now...

Lost a Mech in France...my fault.
Lost an armor in Africa...something went really crazy.

24 str armor with antitank...fully dug in. Attacked by air 6 times and a carrier. Then infantry at 1/1 pounded it...lost 11 in 2 attacks. Then armor rolled in. Armor NEVER retreated and shattered. Africa ended before it began.

I thought the panzers may have retreated once, but I am getting senile and I may well be wrong. Even if it did, stj still has a point

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: ComadrejaKorp

After all there is a very simple way of completely solving UK spam in France - limit the numbers which can be sent. No need to changing the balance anywhere else.

So far the SillyFlower solution seems to be working fine in our current game.

Silly, how do you translate that in game rules? How to limit the numbers which can be sent?

I send 4 inf xxx, 1 mech + 1 HQ. Sometimes fighters but I don't think that's significant either way. That translate to max 120 inf pts, 30 armour and 1HQ. This would work for a house rule. A game rule could be the same or something like max 160 pts AND no units can be removed from Egypt until Italy joins axis. That would still enable cyprus to be garrisoned in time or something slightly more complicate to allow troops to be sent there. Alternatively no units to leave Egypt until June would be simple. Pointless to send units to France then because they would not get to the south of france until july, by which time they aren't going to be any practical use

Flavius' recommendation is also a good option, which I would like to try, but it does have the obvious downside

[ComadrejaKorp]

Am I the only one to think that armored corps or mechanized corps are shattering too easily?

I have the same feeling, in this latest update their armor seems thinner, only with infantry you can kill them, something that did not seem possible before.

[ComadrejaKorp]

Flavius' recommendation is also a good option, which I would like to try, but it does have the obvious downside

Flavius is right, I have just played several turns in hotseat and the defense of France is very complicated.

After a first glance, the French campaign takes place without technological improvements, which penalizes the Allies more, BoA starts half a year late for the Axis, has 2 SS and another in deployment queue, while UK starts with 22 escorts, so it will be a less dangerous BoA.
The Allies will have to run to protect the Middle East that begins with the same scenario of the year 39.

I will try to play a game when I finish my current games but BoA I don't think it will be as important as it should.

As I already mentioned, it annoys me to lose a year and not be able to create your own army, something that undoubtedly favors immersion in the game.

[ComadrejaKorp]

As I already mentioned, it annoys me to lose a year and not be able to create your own army, something that undoubtedly favors immersion in the game.

Another thing that I think I am not going to like starting in 1940 is that there is no place for surprise, nor to prepare any strategy, I am sure it will be fun but I think it will be a more tactical than strategic game, and I think that after several games it will be bored.
It is possible that I am wrong, we will see.

[ncc1701e]

Don't worry. I am sure Alvaro will find a solution. But he must be occupied by Pacific right now. I think it is also wise to wait feedbacks of 1941 USSR campaign (of course if you can pass 1940).

[AlvaroSousa]

If someone would care to email me or post a screen shot of what June 1st 1940 looks like from the ALLIED side from all of France to Northern England it would help.

[AlvaroSousa]

I need data here to see what is going on. Like when does France fall in this situation? August? At all? Are French marching into Germany with the English arm in arm?