Blizzard, blizzard, blizzard...

[Kursk1943]

I'm really frustrated! I was really looking forward to this game, but now I'm totally fed up with it.
Im doing the GC as Axis against the AI and the first blizzard turn happenend end of November, now it's March 1 1942 AND IT'S STILL BLIZZARD! Not a single turn since Nov without blizzard! My front is totally shambles, no chance to stabilise, everywhere I look depleted and routed units. Don't see any chance to recover. My highmark was 694, so I hoped for a fine game in 1942.
I'm not a newbie and played WitE 1 a lot. But if my experience with the wheather is a normality in WitE2, than I'm done with this game.
Anyone similar experience? Any advice?

[Karri]

Wait until it is over and watch your units recover.

[First_Contact_Gamer]

I think your description of the entire situation is very similar to exactly how the Axis felt in 1941. I do believe the winter of 1941 has some coding to be worse then other winters to reflect the historical situation but it is very much a challenge to navigate.

I am continually impressed by this game’s accuracy in simulating the challenges that both sides faced and for me it’s one of the most enjoyable aspects. I would ask you this. Having experienced this don’t you feel in a second go you would adapt and learn from the experience? This perhaps might be a great opportunity to now re-examine your grand strategy at the outset and how you tackle a realistic winter scenario in 41 next time.

[Erik Rutins]

The first time I experienced winter in WITE2, that's about how it felt too, but with experience it's not nearly as scary now. I strongly advise reading through this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5000622

Also, make sure to plan for winter enough to get railyards repaired and FBDs into super-depots near key front line positions. Don't leave your troops in a supply wasteland far from depots and supply.

Even in the worst case, you will see a quick recovery when the weather clears and you'll be surprised how quickly the Axis can bounce back if you have built up your supply net well.

Regards,

- Erik

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

I'm really frustrated! I was really looking forward to this game, but now I'm totally fed up with it.
Im doing the GC as Axis against the AI and the first blizzard turn happenend end of November, now it's March 1 1942 AND IT'S STILL BLIZZARD! Not a single turn since Nov without blizzard! My front is totally shambles, no chance to stabilise, everywhere I look depleted and routed units. Don't see any chance to recover. My highmark was 694, so I hoped for a fine game in 1942.
I'm not a newbie and played WitE 1 a lot. But if my experience with the wheather is a normality in WitE2, than I'm done with this game.
Anyone similar experience? Any advice?

I'm actually seeing the opposite in my game with SpeedySteve (have a look at the AAR reports). its often defaulting to snow/snowfall either all over the front or on particular sectors

[carlkay58]

I too as the Axis have had excessive blizzards (or so it seemed to me). But you will be surprised at how quickly your troops will bounce back during the rainy weather. The whole key is your supply net. There is no way against the AI that you are not going to have holes in your defenses all up and down the line. Against a Human opponent this is less likely as the Soviet human player has the same restrictions on movement and supply (well almost - the Axis 41 Winter rules suck but are historically accurate) as you do. The AI, on the other hand, can do things like do a triple stack attack on a single hex once, twice, three times or more to capture that key hex. A human player would never be able to maneuver that many units into that space and do Deliberate attacks each time. The AI is also capable of changing the location of all those troops so the attack happens somewhere entirely different next turn. Humans have to move their units to the next location - incurring fatigue and time.

The WitE2 41 Winter is not like the WitE1 41 Winter. But once you learn some basics things improve. They are never going to be rosy and sunshiny and it will always be depressing but you will have knowledge on how to handle it better next time.

[Kursk1943]

Thanks for your helpful and encouraging responses!
I really thought I was well prepared for the winter. I stopped all major combat end of October, had a continous defense line reasonable entrenched in good terrain (along river, cities, heavy woods...) after having conquered Leningrad and Sevastopol and shifted 11th and 18th Armies. I build the railways up to the front lines, had a net of depots along the front line, army HQs sitting on them, having some super depots. Had all my armoured divisions and motorised divsions in refit and reserve mode in the big cities. All went fine well into January, but in February things started to crumble.
Main reason for my frustration is that I don't know what to do otherwise and different next time. Blizzard without any respite well into March - unlucky dice roll or a pattern?
I read a message of one guy complaining about the AI not attacking in winter 41/42... My AI is attacking all along the front since Dec every turn, thanks![8|]

[karonagames]

I have experienced the November to March Blizzard with no rest and agree that it is game breaking and soul destroying. I have also experienced the Blizzard missing the Front Line in December, then only having 6 turns to survive in February and March, Unsurprising I won a sudden death victory in Turn 68.

The weather system is having a major influence on game balance.

[carlkay58]

Bad die rolls can give you the forever blizzard and good die rolls can give you a mild winter. The thing to remember is that the 41 Winter Rules make it bad for the Axis regardless of how much blizzards there are. But it is rare that you get constant blizzards through the entire winter. I did have one game, though, that went from mud to blizzards that lasted until the third week in January where I had one snow week and then blizzards until mid March. That one really sucked out the morale. It is part of the game and is better than historical weather that is gamed by humans (and even the AI games it a bit).

[karonagames]

[/quote]

Even in the worst case, you will see a quick recovery when the weather clears and you'll be surprised how quickly the Axis can bounce back if you have built up your supply net well.

I disagree with this. After 6 turns of Blizzard I recovered quickly using super depots, and was able to go on the Offensive in May and win in 68 turns; After 14 Turns of Blizzard I was nowhere near ready to go on the offensive in June. Also my frontline was 6-8 hexes further back so Stalingrad was further away. No way was a 68 turn win achievable after 14 turns of blizzard.

edit: These were H2H games not against the AI.

[karonagames]

[/quote]

It is part of the game and is better than historical weather that is gamed by humans (and even the AI games it a bit).

How can it be better to have a 215 turn game's outcome decided by 12 dice rolls from turns 24-36? Each bad dice roll costs divisions and determines where 1942 offensive will start from. How do you game that?

[username01]

The Campaign goes on until 1945, so I'm not particularly fussed...plenty of moving & fighting still to come.

[First_Contact_Gamer]

ORIGINAL: karonagames

It is part of the game and is better than historical weather that is gamed by humans (and even the AI games it a bit).

How can it be better to have a 215 turn game's outcome decided by 12 dice rolls from turns 24-36? Each bad dice roll costs divisions and determines where 1942 offensive will start from. How do you game that?

I think it may be a tad harsh to compare the games weather model to a die roll. Clearly a lot of work went into the weather model and if the only thing that was happening was a die roll your Thursday night DM would make I don’t believe it would be possible to achieve the weather front and granularity the game offers.

Another point of consideration is that if the weather system in the game truly were a die roll you would end up with horribly unrealistic weather conditions. The game models weather at the per hex level. So you could find yourself with 6 hexes; 4 blizzard like conditions in January, 1 clear and hot representing summer and 1 that is heavy mud and heavy rain. Considering map scale of 10 miles per hex that simply would never happen. The reason we don't see this is because the weather engine is sophisticated. Is it perfect? No far from it. It is however more then a die roll.

If you do not have randomness for weather, the only other implication would be a static weather schedule. I believe the suggestion is if the game had a static schedule of weather players would be able to “game” that because they would know exactly when to rest, when to be ready to attack, when to do what because they had a crystal ball for 215 turns.

This game simulates the pressures and uncertainties that faced commanders. The only way to accomplish uncertainty in a game is to have SOME elements that are indeed random. Good, or more so great, games achieve this by sophisticated algorithms and coding that are far more complex then one die roll while also maintaining your sense of immersion, tricking you into forgetting it’s a game. All of these descriptions of weather are all very reflective of the problem solving that was required in this theatre.

[karonagames]

Wait until you are defending against Red Army 2.0 in 1943 and you are desperate for Heavy Mud to give you a chance to rest and recover. In WITE1 you get 8 mud turns out of 52, in my STB game I got 2 turns of heavy mud, and lost the game in 52 Turns. Playing STB against the AI ,the AI actually stops attacking during the turns that would be heavy mud in WITE1, regardless of whether the weather is Heavy Mud or not.. (see post in tech support forum.)