Airborne Assault:RDoA dug outagain...

Panther Games' Highway to the Reich revolutionizes wargaming with its pausable, continuous time game play and advanced artificial intelligence. Command like a real General, under real time pressures to achieve real objectives on a real map all within the fog of war. Issue orders to your powerful AI controlled subordinates or take total control of every unit. Fight the world's most advanced AI opponent or match wits against your friends online or over a LAN. Highway to the Reich covers all four battles from Operation Market Garden, including Arnhem, Nijmegen, Eindhoven and the 30th Corps breakout from Neerpelt.

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murx
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Airborne Assault:RDoA dug outagain...

Post by murx »

Well after I found out that all new games make me puke after a short time (well Lionheart, or UFO:Aftermath, MoO3 ... well nearly any game from that last year...) I dug out AA:RDoA again.

Well - great game but didn't had the time to play it properly before. So now I started playing it more seriously. (In fact I did miss all patches for the game^^').

But some things still confuse me - and some ideas might get into the new version :D

One thing is equipment and ammo.
Sometimes when a unit routes - routes even several times it will lose any equipment. I can understand this for heavy equipment like vehicles and guns, even for MGs on tripods - but not for each and every small arms. And then again usually the MG-teams within the companies wouldn't usually be made of those weenies that cry at every odd spray bullet but the most reliable guys; so losing the MG is unlikely too.
The first rule any soldier learns - don't drop your weapon no matter what. Of course a part of them still do in action but after the fight has begun and soldiers are dying there are enough reserve weapons around. (including 'scavenging' on this scale would probably asking for too much - tho probably any unit would pick up that nice MG-42 if they get a chance; well but managing supplies in the game would be too hard too).

Ammo - well the units get a full fresh reload at midnight (or 3am after a patch I think) - a bit unrealistic, it might be an interesting feature to increase ammo/supplies for troops under reorganization and rest command say for every 15 minutes on rest/reorg the unit regains a % of their full load - also adjusted by efficiency of their superior units Base Unit (to give them a meaning), distance/route to that Base Unit (in effect units that are encircled are unlikely to get any supplies) - and also adjusted by some global supply level (mabye having some supply level map similar to those used at Panzer Campaign series?).
Another way would be having kind of Supply Points/Units (the Base Units would be perfect for this) and units replenishing their supplies would deduct the appropriate number from their Base Units. The Base Units would in turn regain supplies form these Supply Points (as usual depending on route and enemy presence, status of Base Unit).
Since airborne operations depend heavily on airsupply they need to secure areas that can be used to airdrop in supplies (which is completely missing right now). I guess anyone remembers the scene in the movie 'A bridge to far' where the supplies dropped just outside the Allies area of control. (Question is should the player be able to pick those drop points or should they be fixed by scenario?).

I think putting some more detail to the way supply works in this game adds a lot of depth to it. For instance one can chose to 'resupply' a unit to its full levels even tho the 'global' situation only is at 50% supply (of course this means other units would get less supply, but it might be an interesting feature to beef up some units that are planned to go out on a mission far out of the supply like some Recon Unit creating some diversion or blocking a supply line deep behind the lines).
Well - units with defend orders but not engaged for some time should get supplied too but only a fraction of those with reorg/rest orders.

Orders and Delay - well delay felt right in AA:RDoA but there are some things that are annoying, one being if a unit already got order and one issues another order the old one(s) get annuled by default and the new order will be used - having the 'add' order by default would be better I think and having to delete orders manually (or better explicitly) is better (btw same goes for delete order, usually all are deleted and not just the last one).
Another thing seemed to be working not properly - if I did command a 'withdraw' or delay order and then add another order the prior order just turns into a move order :/ (Maybe that got already fixed??)
Also altering orders sometimes make too much of a fuzz - it shouldn't usually be much of a problem to order a unit (or even full Btn or Bgd) to push their Attack order a few hundred meters further or *slightly* change their attack direction. Nearly always the unit(s) would stop in position (or worse withdraw) reorg, and then attack again. Of course I understand that giving complex or 'new' orders takes a lot of time esp. in combat and WW2 - but at crucial times like an attack there would be more communication (assuming they got radio equipment). So if HQ asks (or gets informed by the assaulting units) that enemy resistance is light a command like 'Push your attack further then planned' would usually get to the units in time without having them to completely regroup and reorg in the middle of the fight :/.
The same applies for direction of attack - I once tried to mop up some 20 men without equipment, remnants of some FlaK unit within the area of Osterbeek with the Armored Recon Unit of the Allies - it was impossible. Even tho they were a motorized unit vs some guys on foot they had no chance to get them since they always reorged while the enemy unit just routed out of sight. Ok, why should I care for some Gerry remnants in my back without fighting capacity? Well they still do recon and the Gerry Arty later in the game is brutal with several Nebelwerfer, sFH18 and lots of 88er grounding anything that looks like a target.
Maybe there should be a command that is connected/link to a unit and not only a 'point' on the map? This could be useful for several things I think like:
The above mentioned mopup - of course a unit slower or as fast as the followed unit will have a considereable chance of losing their target. A faster might lose the trail depending on terrain.
Designing arty support to units (or sub HQs) without removing them from their superforce (in effect the HQ will use those arty only on support missions by the marked unit and not just use it in any way that seem approproate). The friendly AI seems to be quit smart in directing arty to support all units.
With the added option to have indirect fire units only support their 'own unit' this is fine for mortar units but not for the divisional arty assets. On the one hand it is too much strain for a Btn or Brg HQ to have them added to their command structure on the other hand its a big strain on the player to either - select those arty themselves and have them bombard or select the Division HQ and have that unit bombard his subunits the designated target area. So a way to keep them under 'Divisional HQ' and still designate them explicitly to another unit or sub HQ would help a lot.

Some ideas on Delay - well Delay usually results out of two things one being the command getting issued and transfered to the unit and the unit itself starting to execute the order; the later consisting of packing up stuff, pulling the guns and heavy equipment out of their defensive positions and attach them to the jeeps, making sure no squad is left unnoticed of the new order, the sniper at the church tower - this takes a lot of time.
But the other reason for delay depends on several other things.
Well we first start with the order itself - someone noted that it needs to be coded and decoded. I'm not quit sure - of course this is correct for strategic commands, coordination of sea warfare and airstrikes and bombing. That is logical too since all this coordination is not too time critical. For airmissions most of the orders are delivered with 'safe' methods - cable or written too and radio communication that could be observed by the enemy will consist of codewords only.
Since battles are fast and decoding slow it is enough to assume that orders at a level AA:RDoA are only 'encoded' by some codewords and codephrases which were agreed upon prior to the mission, they usually change every 24 hours (or upon a given command to change to another code list). A lot of information is just plain text. The reason behind this is that the enemy cant efficiently gather enough information to 'break' the coding. Even if they catch some radio messages they can't efficiently attach them to events they know of - if they catch a message that some 'unit' named 'Hound' should move to point 'Bravo' they don't know what size and typ unit Hound is neither were point Bravo is - if they have recon on some units it is still impossible to know whether this unit IS Hound and if that point is Bravo or Hound is just regrouping before moving towards point Bravo. Since 'ELOKA' is not very efficient at that time the enemy neither can get every radio transmission nor pinpoint the position of each and every transmission leave alone analyze each message - they probably wont have enough translators to translate the plain part of the transmissions.
So radioed commands should get to subunits quit fast.
But sometimes orders - esp detailed and complex ones need to be on paper. The time it takes to deliver them depends - on means of transportation and available route to the subunit. So in effect HQ units with jeeps will be able to deliver their commands much faster.
Well - usually the HQ unit itself wouldn't send personel out to deliver orders. This is usually a job for someone on a KRad, the Melde or Fernmeldeeinheiten, - and as it seems they are part of the 'Base Units' - guessing from the size of units it seems that the 'Stabs' subunits are gathered for simplicity within these Base Units (all those guys that aren't really fighting but doing the logistical part of warfare like repairing tanks, transporting supplies). So to reflect this in AA:RDoA it might be an idea to adjust command delay based on status of the Base Unit and HQ unit (to bypass any problems that would result in the code for HQs without Base Unit) and their equipment - a HQ and Base unit with lots of fast small vehicles would be able to deliver orders much faster the one completely on foot. Also having or completely lacking radio equipment (or enough of it) should have impact on delay. Again this would put Base Units to much more use. Of course distance and route to ordered units form HQ and Base Unit should matter too. So even if the screenshots said for orders delay 'painfully realistic' I hope that it wont turn out to be 'painfully unplayable and unrealistic in effect'.
The way AA:RDoA delay is feels absolutely fine - even tho some fine tuning might be needed on 'minor' orders like slightly adjusting position's.

Ah, one last thing - on defend orders the friendly AI should pay more attention to terrain - if given a defend order with facing the AI should assume that roughly at that point is the center of the front line of defense and usually put some combat unit at that position (and not place the HQ there and the combat units hundred meter further in the open); since anything else is a bit hard to estimate where exactly the AI will place the units. I don't know if the way orders are given have changed with the overhaul AA currently gets. (Maybe for defend orders drawing a box might be a good idea - the AI would assume that the box is the main area of defense and position the combat units within this box according to terrain and LOS while keeping support units, reserve and HQ safe behind that area).
Well - striking idea - maybe being able to issue attack orders with a drawn rectangle might be a good option too - instead of attack orders that go along a line a command like that would let the AI plot an attack from different angels towards the center of the rectangle (depending on the number of units available the AI even might consider to first doing a complete encirclement).

OK, one last thing - it might be a bug it might be already fixed. Sometimes when giving move orders units use very odd routes. The reason might be that they try to avoid some roads or part of it because there was some enemy unit at some time. This even happens whith ordering the 'quickest' way and is especially annoying if the AI decides to 'shortcut' through some forrest :/ or the AI decides to plot a move well outside the established line of defense and not inside the 'secured' area. (Once I plotted a move for some units from NE of Grote Heide towards the Arnhem RR bridge with Osterbeek and the outskirts of Arnhem already being secured - somehow the AI decided the 'quickest' way would be to move West along the RR and the through Wolfhezen South and entering Osterbeek from there continuing to the RR bridge. With Wolfhezen being completely out of recon and control and not secure for travel. It's annoying to plot every move from each roadcrossing to roadcrossing and not the point of having a 'friendly' AI and the option to chose the 'quickest' path.)

Hrm, hope that's all.

murx
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Post by Arjuna »

Murx,

Thanks for your feedback. I think you will be pleasantly surprised to find that most of your suggestions have been incorporated into HTTR, with the notable exception of supply. This was just too big a feature to get done for HTTR. It will be done for Battles from the Bulge, our third game. :)
Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
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Post by murx »

Well - that's great to hear :D

It's so sad that there are only so few good software companies out there :/
Some great ideas like Steel Panthers - they were great games of there time - well - and guys like you over here seem to be able to make them even better and bigger. So now I just have to wait until the overhaul of AA is complete.

Oh, btw - just a little bug in my own post - the messed up pathfinding wasn't Grote Heide but Joahannas Hove.

Well - I just put both patches on AA and now the command delay is functional. OMG - it did play completely different now. Seems like one better has a good plan in the first place since it even is impossible to stop them easily.

I don't know if it might be a good idea to have some units having little to no command delay to reflect them being highly independent and possibly radio equipped units (like recon units or independent units used for missions behind enemy lines).
Of course the problem is that the player 'knows' the big picture and uses those units accordingly - but on the other hand its seems to be impossible to have tasks like that done by some AI properly.

Ah - and the AI seemed to be a bit better with both patches then before, but I have to play a bit more to know for sure.

So I will get back playing to make the time shorter until AA:HttR is finished :D

murx

(just a word of caring and advice to fellow gamers, if you liked that old UFO: Enemy Unkown or later XCOM Terror of the Deep - keep your hands of UFO:Aftermath - it's a dumbed down game and a rip-off; if you dare try the demo - if you got too much money why don't you buy two or three packs of AA:HttR - then the money wont be thrown away for nothing :D )
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Post by murx »

Well - another thing that I recently found out the hard way due to 'Painfully Realistic Delay'...

I'm missing something that could be called 'event triggered orders' - or change of orders.

To explain it - a long road, some light and fast unit is ordered to race down the road as fast as possible and as soon as it makes contact with enemy forces it should start a delay operation along the road.
The same goes in a way for 'withdraw' orders - units that are dug in in some village for instance should automatically withdraw towards a prior ordered point if they can't hold their position. Though it seems that without patches (i.e. no command delay) retreating single units would move towards the withdraw point even if that order was given after they started to retreat from their position I think giving some HQ an order like that would result in the full organisation to withdraw immedeately (after reorg and delay) instead of an orderly withdraw as soon as the 'overall' defensive position is not holdable (and not waiting until the tanks are at the COs parking lot :) ).
I think designated areas to withdraw to and reform were common use in WWII and not just on the spot decisions :(
With order delay and usually loss of cohesion when getting new orders this is even worse with AA (as it is with RDoA at least)

Another example of 'triggered' events would be (though idealized situation) a road along a river with some units in defensive position at a village along that road. In front of the village there is on the one side of the road the river on the other a 500 meter 'clear' area and then a forrest. 'Friendly' units are in that forrest (with ideal situation undetectable by forces driving down the road).
Of course one expects with this setup that the forces in the forrest have the order to immedeatly attack towards the river as soon as enemy forces moving along the road make contact with the defensive position at the village.
But with order delay it seems to me it is impossible to make maximum use of such a situation even tho in reality that unit in forrest would be deliberatly put there for ambush and already got its order, there would be only minimal delay - as soon as the units in the village open fire and/or shoot a flare the unit(s) in the forrest would start to react and move.
Same goes for kind of 'aggressive' defense - a position at a road with two units - one well dug in the second on alert - as soon as there is enemy contact which can be assumed to be in road/march formation the alert unit attacks 100-300 meter and then immedeatly falls back behind the friendly lines making maximal use of the disruption on the enemies unexpected contact.
Though actions don't neccessarily make 'more' damage in numbers or vehicles destroyed it usually results in a faster retreat and dissaray of the enemy and also might give the enemy a completely 'wrong' picture of the defenders strength. Additionally not only having the enemy forces retreat but retreat 100-300 additional meters (plus some more due to psychological effect) will give the defense force time and cover to immedeatly detach from the enemy and change position (which again were already ordered and so no command delay would happen, only reorg delay).
Well one might argue that the battlefield is a quick changing thing, that those orders are outdated too fast - well agreed it changed fast but given well planned orders (and somewhat variable and considering circumstances) can save the day - well infact that above described roadblock might surrender on first contact - but then again it might again delay the enemy with correct orders at least along the road for several hours if not days; with command delay on it's more or less a one shot thing and a bit inefficient, with command delay of the game feels less ... enjoyable.

Just ideas if you like them or not :D

murx
(somehow I always want my favorite games to get improved towards the best I can think of :D)
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Post by Dutchguy »

hmmmm, do you know I'm still playing Terror from the deep from time to time? In all those years I have the game, I've never finished it :(

aquanauts ready for deployment.........(in their bright yellow ion-armours :rolleyes: )
whoa mohammed!!

(battlecry of 1st para brigade)
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Post by Arjuna »

murx,

I think you will find HTTR's new defend and delay code quite good. We don't have an Ambush command as such. But I'll add it the wish list. Got to go cya.
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Post by murx »

Well .. after playing more I have another issue.

There is a slight problem with 'in-situ' formations, that is only if one unit retreats or routes - even tho it's defense position marker stays at it's earlier position after some time the HQ decides to let it defend at the point the unit retreated to.
Tho that's literally 'in-situ' anyone can understand that was not the reason for what I (the player) issued the in-situ command. This is not a big problem if the defense line crumbles anyway and one has to reform at another point anyway - but much too often the primary attack gets stopped and the attacker withdraws the defender usually wants his retreated units get back in position ASAP. Since 'mere' retreats aren't messaged on screen it happens every now and then that one finds a defensive position that was fine messed up and overrun for retreated unit not getting back in position. In small scenarios this might be managable but not in big ones; also one has to consider the loss of cohesion each time one detaches the unit to move it in position and then reatach it (again add command delay all the time!).
So in effect the HQ AI needs to remember the 'in-situ' formation at the time it is ordered and should try its best to get units back to their position if that formation is broken.
Another idea directly with 'in-situ' formation would be to allow a command that 'not detaches' the ordered unit but changes its position - the HQ will just 'change' the in-situ formation it has remembered according to that new order and of course will try its best to get his attached units into those positions.


Another ... 'Odd' thing is attack-channeling by terrain. This happens at the west end of Arnheim (I think between Den Brink and West Arnhem City VPoints).

As I think the AI issues orders to units that are near the Roadbridge towards Den Brink or further (maybe just move orders) - and since the route is blocked on the south by a river 'attack routes' which would be calculated there (assuming a line attack of three units) would automatically end on the same path as that of the middle unit. Even worse it seems that the path for the upper unit gets calculated on the same path of the middle unit since probably the target move/assault point is - still above the river - but below the most northern curve of the river.

So maybe the AI needs to 'plot' moves according to units involved and terrain in that aspect a bit more 'different. A single unit still might plot it's move right at the shore of the river - but multiple units should plot the 'middle' units path above the shore so only the southern units would move at the shore while the northern units would still be further to the north then the middle units.
('Just plot the first 'optimal' path - if another path can't get plotted on one side of the first path assume the first path to be one of the 'outer' path and calculate the other pathes on the side that allows movement. Then add a routine that allows to recognize if that path has a bridge and automatically add a move marker at both ends of the bridge and have the path AI ignore the routine I just described for that piece of path; another way might be to calculate the path and if another path can't be drawn on one side measure the orthogonal distance between the path and obstacle and a second obstacle at the orthogonal (probably the edge of the map, but might be another river) and if 'broadth of wanted formation' is bigger then distance between both obstacles reduce broadth of formation for that piece of path to distance between obstacles - else assume (if distance is bigger then broadth of formation) obstacle is outer edge of wanted formation and expands from there).

I'm have not enough military experience - but I think 'channeling' a huge force between buildings and a shore is not a very clever option (and the number of grey crosses in that area tell tales...at least in my current game).

Ah, another idea that just popped up in my mind - how about a 'replay' option, analyzing a game afterwards with full intel (can be either turned on/off or a 'mixed' mode where not visible units of the OPFOR will be displayed shaded to). Hehe I'm mad - a replay with some 'directors cut' cutscenes would be cool - while the game replays at different points in the game little voice ins, videos or animations will be displayed. Like your units advance towards the bridge and then a nice cutscene with the bridge getting blown up - it would interrupt gameplay but in some replay it would fit perfectly. I think graphical things like that spice up the game and maybe draw in one or two of those RTS players towards 'real' strategy :D

murx
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Post by murx »

Well for some more - I hope you understand this all just as ideas and not bad critic and bickering :)

In my current game I'm up to the 7th day and there was something I experienced for the first time.

'A Coy/156 disbanded and remnants merged with 1st ST coy' - well at first this is a bit odd since both units were at a considerable distance from each other with other units of the 156 being very close to the A Coy/156, the Stafford Coy was bigger after the merge then their initial size while B and C Coy/156 were down to 1/2 and 1/3 their original size. To put it straight - I think it is/was? usual to merge within their hierarchy as directly as possible and only very rarely across different Regs/Brgds/Divs etc - probably under circumstances where it was impossible to reach the 'brother units'.

And some SciFi for AA 2 or 3 - right now units are 'rectangles' and the 'flip' from one form to another. With realtime it might be able to first have a more organic change of shape (esp. from road formation towards deployed).
It might be an interesting feature to paint the squares of the units filled reflecting their 'density' with shades of color - this simple method allows to use this density information easily even if several units are at the same place by adding their color values.
The real SciFi starts if AA tries not to only use rectangles but odd shapes for the units - since right now with some units expanding around nearly a squarekilometer then can sit right on the shore of the Rhine with 1/5 of the unit at least getting displayed on the other shoreside (without any bridge in sight). I don't know if the engine tries already to integrate this 'display' oddity.
Using odd shapes could much better account for terrain but is probably some nightmare for those to program it :D

murx
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Post by Arjuna »

murx,

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond fully, but I'm knee deep in trying to complete tax returns at the moment and you know how much I like that :mad: ;) .

BTW units deployed on one side of a river do not actually spill over to the other side, except at bridges. Given the limitations of drawing the "occupied area" rectangle it's the best we can hope for at the moment.

I'm a little unclear about your suggestion for redrawing the unit icons. Can you mock up an example?
Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
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Post by murx »

Hi Arjuna
well tax forms are always ... confusing at least :D

To give a description for what I meant - if a unit moves in road formation along some road the rectangle is very long and if the unit changes into deployed mode this rectangle 'flips' to the usual square so for one 'cycle' it was a 1 km x 50m rectangle the next cycle it is a 400m x 400m square - this is a bit odd.

(well the road march rectangle moving along some not straight road looks odd too - but well it IS probably a hell of some programming to get that 'rectangle' into some odd shape depending on terrain - extreme case is some 90 degree turn at a road - it looks as if the 1/2 half missed the turn and went offroad, as soon as the 'unit marker' gets around the turn the second half looks as if it moves offroad; only way to fix that would be to use 'odd shapes' instead of rectangles).

But as I said that's SciFi for now but an idea for AA 2 or 3 :)

But it is good to hear that the engine 'realizes' that units overlapping at river (at least display wise) at what side the unit really is. (Tho I wonder a bit if this works 'foolproof' - how about arty fire at the other side of the shore but within the drawn rectangle? Does it 'hit' the unit?)

Ah, just btw ... I'm not really a 'fan' of those huge units with 1000 or even more then 2000 men in them (some of the heavy FlaK units with 60 guns have that and some of the reinforcements of the XXX.Corps). With AA having this superb way of using HQs and grouping units under tactical AIs is it really neccessary?
Well maybe this got already changed in HttR.

murx
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Post by Grouchy »

murx wrote:Hi Arjuna
Ah, just btw ... I'm not really a 'fan' of those huge units with 1000 or even more then 2000 men in them (some of the heavy FlaK units with 60 guns have that and some of the reinforcements of the XXX.Corps). With AA having this superb way of using HQs and grouping units under tactical AIs is it really neccessary?
Well maybe this got already changed in HttR.

murx

It has :)
Those big units in RDOA, such as those single big Battalions of XXX Corps are now several coy sized units.
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Post by murx »

Grrrrreaat !!!
So now just waiting ... (looks at the watch...dang still not 17th Nov... not even November...)

If there is a Valhalla for heroic developers, programmers and others - you guys should expect some real good afterlife - hopefully the Valkyries don't look scary tho :D

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Post by murx »

Hrm, I recently got two more ideas - one AA:HttR related and on .. erm ... maybe general marketing idea.

AA:HttR - how about 'airrecon' - similar to airstrikes but reveal enemy units within the recons spotting range and/or higher level intel - like radio msg incoming about 8.SS Div entering area from north or sighted at X/Y coordinates(and the units get displayed the moment they enter as reinforcements); maybe scenarios with 'resistance' units which don't fight (and can't be fought/destroyed) but give recon on enemy movement around (probably in some village and the immedeate area around).


About the 'marketing' idea:
I like OOBs, I like detailed lists of weapons and units. Well - of course there are usually good manuals with good wargames but I think there might be a nice idea:
How about making them 'look' like original documents - with those 'old style' binders; maybe even using seperate sheets losely in the binder(s) to give the 'touch and feel' of that time. Esp. for AA the OOB (of both sides) on print might be interesting since it 'helps' the player a bit (and probably military intelligence provided info on own/enemy units too at the historical time; so when the player recons '1/9 PzRec or something he gets some knowledge about the other units in the 9 PzRec and can estimate what other units might be in the neighbourhood).
How often one sees in a movie some CO browsing through the papers in a binder looking up some info.
It mustn't be with the standard version but maybe like a 'bonus' pack for preorder, or kind of deluxe edition.
I hope someone makes sense out of this (cause English is not my native language) but maybe a 'poll' might help to see if forum regulars like or dislike this idea ???

murx
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Post by murx »

To add one more weird idea I just got ....

I got one of those new graphic cards with multimonitor support to plug in my TV...
Well - how about making use of this in wargames, usually information ingame is hidden in different tabs or even windows that eat up the whole screen; it shouldn't be too hard to allow a 'minimize' option for the usual ingame interface for info panels and tabs and add another 'window' (which would be usually hidden on one monitor Windows systems) but in effect holds all info the normal game interface got. Multimonitor users can just put that window on the second monitor et voila - perfect full screen game(map) and the rest handy right to the side on the second monitor.

Again just some idea ^^'

murx
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Post by Arjuna »

murx wrote:To add one more weird idea I just got ....

I got one of those new graphic cards with multimonitor support to plug in my TV...
Well - how about making use of this in wargames, usually information ingame is hidden in different tabs or even windows that eat up the whole screen; it shouldn't be too hard to allow a 'minimize' option for the usual ingame interface for info panels and tabs and add another 'window' (which would be usually hidden on one monitor Windows systems) but in effect holds all info the normal game interface got. Multimonitor users can just put that window on the second monitor et voila - perfect full screen game(map) and the rest handy right to the side on the second monitor.

Again just some idea ^^'

murx
murx,

I agree with your sentiment. Although the remark "it shouldn't be too hard" was obviously written by a non-programmer. :D

Added to the wish list.
Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com
murx
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Braunschweig/Germany

Post by murx »

Arjuna wrote:murx,

I agree with your sentiment. Although the remark "it shouldn't be too hard" was obviously written by a non-programmer. :D

Added to the wish list.
Well - non-programmer is true since I only programmed 8bit cpu with little memory (but on machine code not basic) :D Modern programs are huge - but then if they are nice and clean programmed it is 'relativ' easy to implement (vs nearly impossible if something is spagetti code :( ) - So my guess would be that it is possible to create a process that just 'extracts' the neccessary data out of the already running engine - the engine itself doesn't change, create some 'new' interface and modify the existing ones. In effect the second interface is just a 'monitor' for some internal variables of the engine - like a debugger running parallel.
And that's something I would call 'easier' compared to changes on engine and game mechanics :D
Well, of course it's work - but less work then creating Allied Assault 2 (hihi)

Anyways - this idea was not just only for AA but for all (2d)wargames and might be some interesting feature for new wargames.

murx
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