Suggestions for manually creating depot routes

[Sir.Arnold]

The depot route is currently established automatically

Players can only rough control the supply transportation route by adjusting the supply priority

This sometimes leads to small problems

Does the production team have a plan that allows players to manually create depot routes?

[Joel Billings]

No, the system is as intended, with priority being the mechanism by which players can influence the shipments.

[Sir.Arnold]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

No, the system is as intended, with priority being the mechanism by which players can influence the shipments.

Another thing, is there a solution to the production bug of the Soviet 76.2mm AT Gun?

[Joel Billings]

I know there were changes made to production, both code and data. IIRC, the issue you are talking about was "fixed", yes.

[AlbertN]

@Joel

The real problem is that the priority system here does not really 'work'.

Here in this turn Talinn receives Freight from Kiel, via rail and not via sea.
Next what Talinn depot does? Send Freight from there to ... Orel? When they could just rail it eastward to depots toward Leningrad?

Sorry but there is no way on earth to claim that the priority system here works.

Sonda - the depot on the coast to the side, is well stocked up. (Since Russian winter, it served the Narva line...)
As soon as that one goes down to anything that is not a 4, that Freight will just reflux in all the wrong ways, steal railroad capacity and end up in places like Rostov, Kursk, or Orel... when all I need is that it takes the rail to the east, journey a tenful of hexes and gets to fuel the Leningrad offensive.

The very same is for Pskov depot. I cannot litterally drop it to any other priority, or I am sure that freight will go to other places so it may as well sit here for whenever I need to retreat to this line.

At the same time I cannot tell the depots to 'stop stocking up' because to do that I need to lower the priority of the depots. Which means dispersal of supposedly needed accumulation.

To me that is not normal, highly illogic and disfunctional as system.

Therefore yes - I believe the game needs an improvement to the Freight routing system among other things.
Something I'd suggest is pretty simple - non NSS depots push and shove Freight to the closemost higher priority ones.

So let's say Talinn is at 3 here, and Sonda is still at 4. And Sonda is the closemost at 4. There, Talinn tries to push and shove in that direction its Freight. A 4 still stocks up or distributes to units.

Now that works for existing depots that are not NSS. NSS are the pulsing hearts in general - and it's fine and fair that they works as they do.
The problem is only for existing 'once upon a time' frontline depots, that remained well stocked up... and that will simply disperse their freight instead of forwarding it to 'their' front.

Pretty much the need is an IF conditional, IF NSS do 'as you know', IF non NSS depot ... some new code.

[Yogol]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Therefore yes - I believe the game needs an improvement to the Freight routing system among other things.
Something I'd suggest is pretty simple - non NSS depots push and shove Freight to the closemost higher priority ones.

I agree with this.

I have cases where a unit draws freight from Tilsit using (and losing) trucks instead of Gumbinnen which is within 3 hexes, because depot Gumbinnen is sending all it's freight to units north of Jekapils that are... closer to Tilsit!

Or a case where a unit near Riga is drawing freight all the way from Suwalki instead of Memel even when Memel still has 14000+ supply.

I do not know how to calculates which unit gets freight from where, but I doubt that it optimises correctly.

[DeletedUser44]

ORIGINAL: Yogol

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Therefore yes - I believe the game needs an improvement to the Freight routing system among other things.
Something I'd suggest is pretty simple - non NSS depots push and shove Freight to the closemost higher priority ones.

I agree with this.

I have cases where a unit draws freight from Tilsit using (and losing) trucks instead of Gumbinnen which is within 3 hexes, because depot Gumbinnen is sending all it's freight to units north of Jekapils that are... closer to Tilsit!

Or a case where a unit near Riga is drawing freight all the way from Suwalki instead of Memel even when Memel still has 14000+ supply.

I do not know how to calculates which unit gets freight from where, but I doubt that it optimises correctly.

Something I'd suggest is pretty simple - non NSS depots push and shove Freight to the closemost higher priority ones.

I have had cases where my freight was seemingly all going to Tallinn, whereas little seemed to be going to AGC or AGS. But isn't this all currently adjustable by lowering the priority of an over-stocked depot?

In my case, I just back down Tallinn's priority for a couple of turns.

Is that not sufficient?

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

@Joel

The real problem is that the priority system here does not really 'work'.

Here in this turn Talinn receives Freight from Kiel, via rail and not via sea.
Next what Talinn depot does? Send Freight from there to ... Orel? When they could just rail it eastward to depots toward Leningrad?

Sorry but there is no way on earth to claim that the priority system here works.

Sonda - the depot on the coast to the side, is well stocked up. (Since Russian winter, it served the Narva line...)
As soon as that one goes down to anything that is not a 4, that Freight will just reflux in all the wrong ways, steal railroad capacity and end up in places like Rostov, Kursk, or Orel... when all I need is that it takes the rail to the east, journey a tenful of hexes and gets to fuel the Leningrad offensive.

The very same is for Pskov depot. I cannot litterally drop it to any other priority, or I am sure that freight will go to other places so it may as well sit here for whenever I need to retreat to this line.

At the same time I cannot tell the depots to 'stop stocking up' because to do that I need to lower the priority of the depots. Which means dispersal of supposedly needed accumulation.

To me that is not normal, highly illogic and disfunctional as system.

Therefore yes - I believe the game needs an improvement to the Freight routing system among other things.

+1

In some thread people were not connection north/center/south lines to prevent this
Unfortunately i do not remember the thread nor a result.

[AlbertN]

Talinn is an example - it's not a specific.

And it seems to have some port-routines wonky as posted in the AAR.

I am not a logistic expert, but I can see the obvious. In general a Berlin to Orel and Berlin to Leningrad sector plus Talinn to Leningrad sector is better than a Berlin and Talinn to Orel and Berlin to Leningrad. With the due percentages.

[DeletedUser44]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Talinn is an example - it's not a specific.

And it seems to have some port-routines wonky as posted in the AAR.

I am not a logistic expert, but I can see the obvious. In general a Berlin to Orel and Berlin to Leningrad sector plus Talinn to Leningrad sector is better than a Berlin and Talinn to Orel and Berlin to Leningrad. With the due percentages.

I know that the amount of Railroad capacity available is a function of { if (Railyard_size >= 2) then rail_capacity += (Railyard_size * 10k) } for all Railyards within 30 hexes.

How do you know you are not running into this upper limit?

It isn't like this value is displayed.

[panzer51]

I know that the amount of Railroad capacity available is a function of { if (Railyard_size >= 2) then rail_capacity += (Railyard_size * 10k) } for all Railyards within 30 hexes.

So if hypothetically I have RY=2 every 5 hexes between point A and point B. How much capacity then I have, if points A and B are 30 hexes apart?

[AlbertN]

@Sauron

Maybe I've explained me poorly.
I do not wish for manual things or to have to gain a massive headache out of the logistics.

What I mean is that if I've Talinn with Priority 4 and let's say 5000 stocked Freight, as soon as I lower Talinn of priority, that 5000 Freight will try to move to another location.

I do not need to know HOW MUCH freight I can move there. It should be simple, either Talinn moves it to the closer depot with higher priority or toward the closer frontline (Enemy hex?)

It is a logical process of prioritizing.

If you say 'You do not have enough freight to move the freight' that is entirely and absolutely non relevant here. Because then Talinn freight remains in Talinn and does not goo all the way to Orel.

On the other hand the Talinn to Orel moves 'steals' freight. Because it moves a longer route and 'eats' more rail capacity. Unless I entirely misunderstood the logistics there. It've freight that goes 'against' the south-to-north lane for the Baltics toward Leningrad, before to just conflux in the general eastward direction.

What defines that Talinn sends Freight to Level 4 Depot at Orel and let's say not ... at Sonda that is a few hexes away or some other level 4 Depot a few more hexes to the east?
This is my point. And what I feel wrong.

[GibsonPete]

AlbertN +1

[Sir.Arnold]

In a word, there are some small problems in the depot system. Now it depends on whether the official wants to correct these problems

[Yogol]

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

In a word, there are some small problems in the depot system.

I wouldn't call it small. Because of the system, there are far-away depots in my game that use 14000 trucks (!!!) in a single turn to get freight to units, instead of having those units draw freight from closer depots that have stocked freight in them and thus needing lesser trucks.

And I have no way of stopping that.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Yogol

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

In a word, there are some small problems in the depot system.

I wouldn't call it small. Because of the system, there are far-away depots in my game that use 14000 trucks (!!!) in a single turn to get freight to units, instead of having those units draw freight from closer depots that have stocked freight in them and thus needing lesser trucks.

And I have no way of stopping that.

well you do - unit supply priority, and a well laid out depot system.

Quite simply apart from in the opening turns I have never ever seen this sort of thing.

[Yogol]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Yogol

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

In a word, there are some small problems in the depot system.

I wouldn't call it small. Because of the system, there are far-away depots in my game that use 14000 trucks (!!!) in a single turn to get freight to units, instead of having those units draw freight from closer depots that have stocked freight in them and thus needing lesser trucks.

And I have no way of stopping that.

well you do - unit supply priority, and a well laid out depot system.

Quite simply apart from in the opening turns I have never ever seen this sort of thing.

Do you have a post somewhere with pictures of such a well-laid-out depot system of -say- turn 25 of the grand campaign for the troops that attack Moscow (and the troops that protect the flanks of that drive)? Because no matter how I set it up, it keeps drawing from far-away depots.

I tried a 0-0-0-0-4 depot setup but then it takes freight from the front-4 to sent freight to the flanks, using way too many trucks.

I also tried 0-4-0-0-4 to lower the first 4 to 0 once it has fright, hoping it would go to the front-4 but that didn't work at all.

I also tried 0-3-3-3-4 hoping the 3s would provide freight to the flanks and the 4 to the front, but it won't do that and use the front 4 to give freight to the flanks even when there are 3-depots nearby.
For example, on my turn 24, Volojolamsk used a whooping 19.657 trucks to supply units as far south as Mogilev.

[loki100]

There are 3 bits to the problem and they interact, so:

a) in 1941 there are places where the Axis player will be effectively off the supply grid, especially as the weather changes and motorised costs rise. I have my own instinctive feel for where this line is based on how I work the depot system, but its all judgement not rules. To make it worse, my safe line is game losing in that you will fail the 1942 HWM test, so in effect the German player needs to go out of the comfort zone

b) never forget you have tools to set demand as well as to influence supply. Keep a really close eye on the army freight table in the logistics log. If an army is constantly not getting what it asks for, drop the supply priority. This makes a real difference, one reason for long traces (and the hit on trucks) is the units are trying to get the supply you tell them to, so simply tell them not to. Oddly they may do better looking for (& getting) less than trying to get more - trucks stay in units (=MP and CV), trucks don't get damaged in supply traces.

I personally think a lot of German players really miss this side of the equation, equally the Soviet player needs to keep it in mind as 1943 progresses and they push back towards Minsk/Kiev etc

c) Layout.

Very roughly I divide the map into 4 zones

ci) the deep rear, here depots are mostly at 0 or 1, the few that are higher are usually connected to either a base with level bombers (& I don't buy the LW is useless arguments) or, later on, where I am constructing fort lines
cii) Pskov-Minsk-Kiev, I put these to pri 4, let them fill up, drop to 2 and the supply goes forward (& I can get it consistently to go forward)
ciii) the immediate rear, these depots get #3, some at #4 if there is a nearby LW base that matters, usually these depots are not actively supplying the front line formations but some migt
civ) the front. My best guess is that units ideally use depots within 10 hexes so this is that zone. I've come to a view the best layout is a layer of 2 pri 4 depots behind each combat sector/rail line

So I avoid long traces in part by using the demand tools. I never see say Minsk's freight wandering off to Poland, I do sometimes see it pop up in the Ukraine. I don't care - I live somewhere where the nearest rail system is somewhat random in peace time and the biggest threat is an irate otter - in other words SNAFU. But these oddities never really add up to a problem.

Final bit, at least till late 1942, the game assumes an axis player doing well has a stressed supply system. I, for one, do not want to see a WiTE2 variant with an 'easy' supply system.

edit - never forget a fundamental rule, a depot can only send freight to one at a higher priority, so by definition a pri 4 depot will only supply combat units not other depots. That is why the Minsk etc trick works.

[carlkay58]

This is for Yogol:

This is Turn 26 Northern Supply Situation:

[carlkay58]

And the southern stiuation: