Newbie AAR: Axis vs. AI Soviet 1941 GC

[cain012]

Hi all, I've been trying to perfect my game and am posting my first AAR in the hopes of soliciting feedback on my performance. AI settings are simple (100 morale and so on across the board) so I can test approaches. I still find this setting quite challenging however. I hope to sustain this campaign into 1942!

While I believe I understand the risk/rewards of many aspects of ground combat, tracking logistics and manually controlling the air war beyond turn 1 are weaknesses of mine. I also struggle with maintaining combat preparation points for my armies, and use my Panzers for too many attacks while trying to create pockets. I hope to rectify those issues for this campaign.

I also have not been able to capture Odessa once, and doing so cleanly (and mastering port isolation generally) is one of my other main goals, as is facing my first in-game winter with intact divisions and supply nets (most of my games have stopped circa Turn 11 to 13, as I experimented with different openings).

Admin Stuff:

I spend a lot of time in the first turn trying to get the overloaded HQs back to normal, get better leaders in charge of the better divisions, and to attach the AG or OKH-reporting corps units to the weaker armies. AGS in particular starts out ready to be badly overloaded, 17th Army in particular (a problem I can't really deal with until the Slovakian Corps becomes unfrozen).

1.) I move all of I Corps divisions into L Corps since Lindemann is a better leader than von Both, then attach L Corps to 18th Army. Polizei and 83rd Divisions go into I Corps instead, and are assigned to pocket clearing.

2.) XXIII Corps is attached to 16th Army, while 4th Panzer Group's infantry divisions are assigned to X Corps, which I then directly attach to the Panzer Group as it's weakest of the four and holds pockets less effectively.

3.) I attach XXXXII Corps to 9th Army, and put VIII Corps into the 3rd Panzergruppe, which has no foot infantry (so these divisions will recover CPP ASAP after racing ahead to catch up with the motorized units by turn 3 or 4), so it can be capable of punching holes later. I've not tried this and hope it works. 9th Army has tended to get a bit spread out in the Smolensk area, holding a longer northern front and its immediate eastern front, so maybe this will help that formation retain some flexibility too.

4.) Various reserve corps/divisions behind AGC are attached to 2nd Army so it can clear the Pripyat Marshes and hopefully free up 4th Army's southern flank by turn 6 or 7.

5.) XXXXVI Motorized Corps detached to help 1st Panzer Group, since half of its units are frozen on turn 1.

6.) LI Corps attached to 6th Army, as is one of IV Corps' divisions to try and reduce 17th Army's CP load. Various army-subordinated divisions are attached to corps that can handle them, in particular 4th Mountain Division into the XXXXIX Mountain Corps.

7.) Finally, following the advice of others, TOE for all frontline divisions set to 50 percent, to be returned to 100 on a case-by-case basis.

Turn 1

My opening turn is likely to be fairly conventional by the standards set by the other players I've observed here, and not too exciting for them. Air directives mostly come from the voluminous War Room thread on ideal Turn 1 ADs for maximum VVS destruction for minimal LW losses. Results below, with level bomber losses coming from unescorted missions:



In my first games, I tried to pocket most of the rifle divisions on the immediate front line so I could save my forces from fighting (also remembering WitE1's necessity of forcing surrenders rather than routs), but too many of my infantry divisions had to stay behind eliminating them for several turns, and casualties seem very light attacking all along the line on Turn 1 anyway. So for this one, I've tried to rout or push aside as many rifle divisions as possible, while still trying to pocket or avoid the tank and mechanized divisions so I can grab their trucks. I'm not sure what the optimal truck pool size is, but I am arbitrarily trying to keep it above 10,000.

As a result, AGN attacks all along the line and clear out as many fortified areas and rifle divisions as possible, and advance as far as possible (knocking units aside as they go) in the hopes of freeing up the roads for the panzer divisions.

I assigned Totenkopf to LVI Motorized Corps, which takes Riga, while the remainder of the corps scoots along the Daugava river, but due to FOW movement being on (which I'm trying for the first time) I screwed up my pathing and couldn't take Daugavpils with the Corps like I normally do. I had to leave that to XXXXI. Motorized Corps, which was able to knock the airborne brigades out of the vicinity of Daugavpils and move along the north side of the river towards Polotsk.



Meanwhile, 2nd Panzer Group goes for Minsk, capturing it and knocking divisions out of the roads to Gomel and Smolensk, while XXXIX Motorized Corps from 3rd Panzer Group seals the Belarus pocket from the north. Pretty typical strategy here, though I'm a tiny bit concerned about the two-hex gap near the tank division that 1st Cavalry failed to rout in the southern part of the pocket...



LVII Motorized Corps, meanwhile, tries to advance as far north as possible, crossing the Dvina to try and snag the road network outside Vitebsk. The goal here is to deal with problematic river crossings far in advance of the Soviets' ability to throw up lines filled with reserves before the infantry can catch up, and it will cause any defense formations to be distended and have gaps. 4th Panzer Group refusing to head north is part of the strategy here, as hopefully the Soviets will defend Pskov heavily and allow no less than three panzer groups to repeatedly pocket the troops in the center and further hobble stable line formation (I've seen the Soviets totally strip the Leningrad front to defend the center and hope to repeat that here, so 18th Army can sneak up on it through Narva).



Meanwhile, AGS doesn't go for the Lvov pocket in the hopes of bagging a much bigger pocket on turn 2 by linking up with the Romanians.

I have also found in past games that roughly half the time, the AI chooses to heavily defend the road and rail network extending northeast towards Kiev by stashing lots of divisions directly north of this long 1st Panzer Group spearhead in the Pripyat Marshes. This means that if I can race to link a corps from 2nd PzG with 1st PzG at Chernigov (or thereabouts), I can bag an absolutely huge pocket in the marshes and put the Soviets on their back heel for several turns. By that point, the three panzer groups in the center threatening Moscow are causing vast parts of the front to become relatively undefended and vulnerable. Again, hoping to repeat that here. This is another reason the extra motorized corps in 1st Panzer Group is useful (2 motorized corps can do pockets in the south while the other two head for Chernigov). The one challenge is if the Sovs mount a defense near Gomel: crossing all those marshy rivers is extremely tough with motorized formations. We will see.



Turn 1 ground losses - almost no tanks lost! I've been stupid with the panzers before so this is good.



Feedback welcome on my performance! I am really trying to learn this game better and hope to get some responses.

[cain012]

Turn 2: A Mixed Bag

First, I moved several fighter groups from the Luftflottes to forward airbases that could be supplied, in addition to as many of the shorter-range recon aircraft in the army Koluft formations.

I set air directives to scour the whole immediate front, with Luftflotte 1 handling the area near Pskov, Luftflotte 2 looking just ahead of Army Group Center (to see if any avenues have been left open, especially to see if there is a gap near Gomel), and Luftflotte 4 examining the space between 1st Panzer Group's spearhead and the Romanians.

For my trouble, I lost 353 aircraft, with over 2/3rds of those losses coming from flak. At this rate my recon force will be shredded within a turn or two. I almost don't even want to escort the recon planes next turn, as there were zero air combat losses, so I'm just losing fighters for nothing. I'm not sure how to handle subsequent recon flights--it appears flak is getting the better of quite a lot of folks, so any tips are appreciated.



In any case, here is the situation facing Army Group North:



Army Group Center:



and Army Group South.



It also looks like, as suspected, a lot of divisions are currently stashed in the Pripyat Marshes.



However, this leads me to the first problem with my strategy of bagging a giant Kiev pocket...there appear to be several divisions sitting astride many of the crossing points along the Berezina and the Dniepr in front of 2nd Panzer Group. Even if one or two of my divisions are able to get down the apparent gap at Rogachev, they wouldn't have enough points to get all the way to Gomel until turn 3, at which point the intention would be obvious and the units would be moved. The terrain there is very swampy, and the triple river crossings on that road sap every division of their points even once the road is clear. If a division is hiding on that road, the whole rush to Gomel (and to Chernigov) will be scuppered and Panzer Group 2 will be stuck down there.



But first thing's first before attacking:

Romanian Admin

I do something a little different than is the norm, from what I can tell: 4th Romanian Army has a lot of units all over the front, and some of them (like the fortress units) are useless for anything but pocket clearing (if that). The fortress brigades don't even have enough movement points to get over the border this turn.

Whereas, 3rd Romanian Army has quite a few nice Mountain Brigades that can hold their own in combat, while 11th Army is totally overloaded command-point wise with other Romanian infantry formations.

So, what I do is leave southern Romania totally undefended for a turn, and move 3rd Romanian Army from the northern border to the eastern border.

IV Romanian Corps, a part of 4th Romanian Army and with zero divisions attached at turn start, gets put into 3rd Romanian Army and I fill it up with the Romanian divisions from 11th Army till there's no more room in either this or the Mountain Corps.

The other formations of 4th Romanian Army get moved north, while the spare 11th Army Romanian formations close to the southern edge of the pocket I'm about to form split into regiments and line up along that edge, after being attached to whatever 4th Rom. Army corps is handy.

Meanwhile, 11th Army gets a small "infantry motorization regime" to help it pocket some of the South-Western Front forces facing it, and close a pocket with panzers from 1st Panzer Group's spearhead. The other formations begin moving south to position the whole army for the assault on Odessa.

11th Army will thus take the southern flank of Barbarossa, while 3rd Romanian Army is intended to hold the middle below 6th Army until 17th Army can catch up. Once 4th Romanian Army is done helping clear the big Polish/Ukrainian pocket in the south, it rejoins 3rd where hopefully I can start stacking Romanians so they don't rout and are useful in combat.

1st Panzer Group seals the pocket

Now that 11th Army has scooted around the openings scored by the hasty Romanian attacks on the weak security regiments and rifle divisions to the east, 1st Panzer Group (now five corps strong with one panzer corps from 2nd PzG and an infantry corps) makes its moves. XIV Panzer Corps might have gotten a bit misused, clearing divisions directly to the east of the spearhead rather than venturing north or south. However, I wanted the spearhead units to have maximum freedom and be able to concentrate for a drive on Kiev. In the end, I think it ended up fine: I linked up with the Romanians and approached the gates of Kiev while capturing Vinnitsa and Zhitomir.





There is therefore a chance that I can get around Kiev to the south on turn 3 and drive north for Chernigov instead of mucking about to the west of Kiev trying to take the swampy roads and river crossings through the marshlands. It is unlikely that the corps I sent north will be cut off as they flipped a lot of hexes.

2nd Panzer Group's plans botched

However, I ran into definite trouble with the comparable approach for 2nd Panzer Group. I sent elements of XXIV Panzerkorps forward down the road to Rogachev looking to see if the Russians left the Dniepr crossing unguarded. They did not. Three divisions, including a mechanized division, are sitting there.



There's no chance of a clean drive to Gomel with those divisions there and the six unknown formations directly to the north. 2nd Panzer Group will have to try to punch through near the airborne brigade near Mogilev and see if it can cross the Dniepr further north, and take advantage of the more open terrain and north-south road network there.

Here is the result: a pocket around Mogilev, and at least a few divisions across the Dniepr, with a panzer division holding steady to exploit any shift away from the Rogachev road. To seal the pocket to the east, I had to detach a panzer division from 3rd Panzer Group. Good thing I didn't try to punch through at Rogachev, as a rifle division is sitting right on the road behind the Dniepr. The pocket is weak, and may be broken, but at least it'll cause some shifts hopefully.



Things were more successful in the north. 4th and 3rd Panzer Group are going to work together to isolate Smolensk while 2nd Panzer Group tries to find a way to Chernigov. New pockets were formed, Vitebsk surrounded, and Velikie Luki is close by. However, there is a risk that by totally ignoring the Soviets masses around Pskov, that 4th Panzer Group will get hit in the flank before 16th Army or X Corps can catch up. Let's hope the Russians don't get aggressive too early. The pockets here are fairly weak as well...



Ground losses for turn 2:



Once again, I've kept AFV losses low, which is good. However, a lot of my Romanians are in contact with the Soviets, so I expect some attrition next turn...

Thanks for reading! Once again, any and all pointers or comments are appreciated! I'm really trying to set myself up for a successful winter and 1942.

[loki100]

few general pts

1) I'd revise your opening with AGC, an unlucky recovery from rout and all that southern area is wide open, try never to leave a gap that can be crossed without encountering a ZoC, breaking down the cavalry and a mot division to regiments will give you the cover you need.

Related to this, try to secure that dual track rail, not doing so may cost you a turn in linking to Minsk (as the FBD will not be able to use admin movement)

2) recon, if you are doing this manually, only run a few days a week at low intensity unless you really have a pressing need for more info. In effect, you are roughly scouting out the Soviet deployment and that is as good as it gets. If you are using the AI Assist set up this pattern in the air doctrine screen (the AI will then use those rules in its AD design)

3) AI, as a general pt, the AI is good at screening/blocking a single line of advance, so the key is to give it multiple problems. Once you get things settled down, try to create 5 spearheads and then rotate between them (the AI will prioritise your most recent gains), that helps get it (& keep it) off balance

4) I personally wouldn't have 11A wandering around towards Kiev. All you are going to do is to add to the supply problems coming via Lvov when its easier to supply along the Black Sea ports. Also, with added pioneers and heavy artillery that is your solution to Odessa and Sevastopol, it can rejoin the main attack of AGS when you get towards Stalino (where again its very useful as city capture force)

[cain012]

ORIGINAL: loki100

few general pts

1) I'd revise your opening with AGC, an unlucky recovery from rout and all that southern area is wide open, try never to leave a gap that can be crossed without encountering a ZoC, breaking down the cavalry and a mot division to regiments will give you the cover you need.

Related to this, try to secure that dual track rail, not doing so may cost you a turn in linking to Minsk (as the FBD will not be able to use admin movement)

2) recon, if you are doing this manually, only run a few days a week at low intensity unless you really have a pressing need for more info. In effect, you are roughly scouting out the Soviet deployment and that is as good as it gets. If you are using the AI Assist set up this pattern in the air doctrine screen (the AI will then use those rules in its AD design)

3) AI, as a general pt, the AI is good at screening/blocking a single line of advance, so the key is to give it multiple problems. Once you get things settled down, try to create 5 spearheads and then rotate between them (the AI will prioritise your most recent gains), that helps get it (& keep it) off balance

4) I personally wouldn't have 11A wandering around towards Kiev. All you are going to do is to add to the supply problems coming via Lvov when its easier to supply along the Black Sea ports. Also, with added pioneers and heavy artillery that is your solution to Odessa and Sevastopol, it can rejoin the main attack of AGS when you get towards Stalino (where again its very useful as city capture force)

Thank you for the advice! Regarding recon, I may have done higher intensity missions, so I'll check when I take my third turn. I'm currently flying at 20000 feet and only flying two days a week (1st and last).

I'm gonna send 11th Army straight southeast on this turn, but the point is noted. Motorizing a few of the infantry divisions doesn't actually seem to help that much, as I can probably seal in the troops of the Southern Front (?) without their help, so maybe in subsequent games I won't do that.

Regarding zones of control: do regiments and divisions have the same scope? six hexes surrounding the unit? Are gaps of two hexes between units (if there aren't any adjacent enemy units) permissible in general, as long as their ZOCs touch? Or should I aim to split up divisions, and keep them apart with no more than one hex of space? Do you stagger their formation as well?

Turn 3 should be coming later today.

[loki100]

ZoC rules are a wee bit tricky, only a division can convert the surrounding hexes as it moves but a brigade has a ZoC and can impose movement penalties on the other side as a result.

T1 is a constant juggle of nailing the pockets tight, securing the rails, finishing off the VVS and getting as far East as feasible - inevitably something creaks under the strain. So its a bit intuitive but I'd almost never have more than a 1 hex gap between units and echelon can help. There are exceptions such as if you convert to a real depth - but watch out for Soviet cavalry, they can be very mobile.

A good practice is to do T1 vs yourself, generate what you think solves the above and see if you can break it. Run it a few times as recovery from rout is a bit random.

[cain012]

Now that my game has been updated to the version which solves some of the OP flak issues, I have commenced with turn 3. Air recon losses were still fairly high, and some of my Kolufts are still smarting badly from turn 2's air bloodbath, but I brought up some planes from the reserve and hopefully replacements will help get them back up to strength next turn.



The main thing I wanted to keep an eye out for was any major Soviet concentration in the Pripyat Marshes. Incredibly, it seems LOADS of divisions are defending that region, very far forward. So even though my Gomel approach was frustrated, my top priority is to cut all rail lines into the marshes, and get enough troops behind the formations deep in the marshlands to frustrate their movement out of there. I have heard the Soviet AI has unlimited admin movement anyway, but hopefully some forces are left behind.

Getting around Kiev to the south seems unlikely, so I'll probably try pressing against the weak rifle division and security regiment just south of Korosten.



Meanwhile, the situation in the South is pretty messed up, as 11th Army's divisions which I motorized on turn 2 now have to go all the way south across 3rd Rumanian Army's path, and 4th Rumanian Army's divisions stuck in the south need to be moved northwest. I probably will not repeat this tactic in future games.

4th Rumanian Army continues trying to compress the Polish/Ukrainian pocket from the southeast. 17th Army will try to rush forward and close the gap between 6th Army and the northern corps of 1st Panzer Group, which are going to head even further north this turn. A spare corps directly under AGS plus the Slovakian and Hungarian formations will work on the pocket from the northwest, and take Lvov.



AGN and AGC are also precarious. The foot infantry is FAR behind, while Panzer Group 2 is still gonna try and get to Gomel (or at least some ways south), so tightening the line and preserving the pockets (some of which were broken this turn) will mean a lot of broken up regimental formations strung out across the front.

AGN:



AGC:



Results

After moving my infantry up as far is I could, I got to work with the Panzer Groups.

4th Panzer Group took Velikie Luki, but I screwed up some of my movement pathing with (I think) 36th Motorized Division and as a result the flank is pretty exposed. I can only hope that the river crossings, the threat from Totenkopf beyond Velikie Luki, and ZOC situation can prevent any cutting through at Idritsa. But it wasn't the strongest position. I still haven't gotten used to Movement FOW, and I got careless.

Meanwhile I feel pretty good about the Smolensk approach. I broke through a tank and mechanized division south of the Dniepr with my reasonably fresh motorized divisions, and then broke them up into regiments to snake east and surround a few other divisions. By next turn, VIII Corps and a few corps from 9th Army will be reaching the front, and I can begin putting my Panzer Groups back into divisions hopefully.



Meanwhile, 1st and 2nd Panzer Groups found their openings. 1st Cavalry did the work of knocking some of the units out of the way, but this was by far the area where I incurred a lot of tank losses trying to move aside some of the mechanized and tank divisions sitting astride here. But I cut the double rail going into the marshes, although again, it's precarious because of the one teeny hex at the bottom of my drive. My panzer division could be easily cut off. The terrain is also pretty darn unsuitable. But I really wanted to cut that rail.

1st Panzer Group broke through those weak divisions and tried something similar, enveloping a few of the rifle divisions west of Kiev and taking large parts of the road network while cutting the double rail running from Kiev and the single rail to Chernigov. I don't know if this makes much of a difference to the Soviets' ability to actually move their units out--there's still a BIG gap they can run out through--but hopefully it will work. Getting east may be a bit of a problem though. Even so the noose is tightening in the Pripyat marshes and I may yet bag a few dozen divisions, including some mechanized ones.



Meanwhile, the center of AGS's front is pretty weakly held. I split up XXIX Corps' infantry into regiments and attempted to stagger them, but the big miscalculation may have been moving my 1st Panzer Group formations from north to south and pocketing those five rifle divisions near Mogilev-Podolsky rather than moving them north to defend the gap between the rest of 1st PZG and the Romanian front. Those five rifle divisions aren't going to yield much booty and won't make much of a difference to the defense plan, but oh well. I did what I did.

I feel ok about it though because the Soviet line is pretty far back, and they'll have to close a fair distance to make any penetration in depth (at which point I could easily divert the separated motorized formations to snapping around them). By next turn, 17th Army will be able to move up there anyway. Still, it's not great play.



The Romanian Front is still a total mess, but next turn 11th Army ought to be back together and 4th Rum Army ought to be able to take care of its part of the pocket a little better.



Ground losses for turn 3:



Losses were heavy this turn, especially with tanks, due to 2nd Panzer Group making so many attacks trying to head south. My main question, upon reflection, is whether this inordinate effort to meet 2nd and 1st Panzer Group in the Chernigov area, meeting in Pripyat, was a good idea. Maybe it would have been better to press further east ASAP. Time will tell. I changed out a few leaders, and the Minsk railhead will be repaired next turn (highlighting loki's point about capturing the double rail quickly...turn four might be a little late for that railyard to be repaired).

[cain012]

Turn 4

The mixed bag continues. One major objective was accomplished, to potentially middling effect (and not at all in the manner I'd planned), while the situation in the north and center are concerning. But time will tell what effect this will have on my "operational tempo."

First off, air phase losses:



Still nowhere near the hemorrhaging of recon aircraft I had before the patch but still far higher than I'd like.

End-of-turn situation for Army Group North:

The main thing here was to get my infantry up and the front more organized. 16th Army could be in a position to take over a substantial part of the front from 4th Panzer Group next turn but as I had already taken Velikie Luki no significant progress north or east has been made with this army group. My intention is still to use 4th Panzer Group in the center, in the hopes that as the Soviets rebuild their line each turn the north will gradually get weaker and ease passage to Leningrad until the front line is close to that city.



End-of-turn situation for Army Group Center:

The Smolensk approach is a point of huge concern for me at the moment. By now I usually have Smolensk covered on both north and south if not surrounded already, but currently only a handful of regiments have pressed forward and 4th Army is still not really too close. 3rd Panzer Group is not in the position of strength I'm accustomed to and most of it is south of the Dniepr while Smolensk sits to its north. I've botched this somewhere along the line but hopefully the arrival of 9th and 4th Armies next turn can help recover some initiative.



End-of-turn situation for Army Group South:

Recon revealed that my original approach to closing the Pripyat pocket would have been all but completely unworkable: armored formations north and south of Kiev, rifle divisions guarding every convenient crossing over the Desna and Dniepr rivers. So to bag ANY divisions I had to seal the pocket in the swamps. Once again, I am questioning the wisdom of committing to this strategy, as recon did not reveal too many divisions still in the pocket. 16 formations are visible, but one is an airborne brigade and a few are almost certainly just piddling fortified areas. Nevertheless, I can now focus on other things like Kiev and redeploying 1st Panzer Group for a resumption of mobile warfare.



Meanwhile, the infantry (including 17th Army) has reached the AGS front, greatly improving my flexibility in that regard. There are also still many decently-supplied mobile formations in the south that can be used for things while three other motorized corps get their tank treads out of the swamps to the north.



On the Romanian front, 11th Army has almost completely redeployed to the south wing of the advance for the Odessa approach. 4th Rumanian Army continues to batter itself against the southwestern pocket. I suspect that this is where most of my mind-boggling attrition casualties in each logistics phase are concentrated.



Ground Losses

Higher than I'm used to at this phase, though I don't think my AFV losses are TOO bad considering what my panzers have been doing for three turns. I think I may need to refit a substantial number of my Romanian formations in a few turns just from sitting next to the Soviets.



Recap

2nd Army will continue pressing forward through the Pripyat Marshes and will hopefully reveal what exactly has been trapped there. Soviet losses hit the 1 million mark this turn, and I'm hopeful that between the two pockets I am reducing plus the odd divisions that are currently trapped, I can sustain the tempo of 200,000 or more Soviet losses next turn while creating new opportunities for pockets or breakthroughs now that my infantry is up in almost every front.