how come this game has such good performance vs stellaris

[alexman91]

i read that theu removed all warp to all sustems due to n-pathing issue and calculations of shortest route and huperlines was needed to fix gameplau but it works great in dw2. whu was stellaris made shit from 1.0 with cooler mechanics

[Pocus]

The DW2 engine has been made from the ground up I believe (Erik will confirm), at least on all the low level architecture. It has a few youth issues, but I'm confident they will go away semi-rapidly.
Stellaris is derived from the Paradox engine which has been refactored/reworked since Paradox is Paradox. So it has to bear the weight of a few legacy choices I guess. Plus it is used for all Paradox games with many modifications, but still that's the same engine, Clausewitz, running EU, CK and Stellaris.

[EnDSchultz]

My experience has been the opposite, at least with 2000 stars.

By mid-late game on a 2060, turning on pretty much any overlay will drop the framerate to an unplayable stutter, sub-5fps.

[R_TEAM]

this musst be from the thread creator an pure fanboy or troll posting ....
Stellaris "have" an problem with the performance on late game (the root are the many "mostly senseless as anyway no impact have" citizens calculations ...) - have played stellaris for years - it is a medicore 4X game at best from the point of game machanics...
But the gfx engine whope the floor with the DW2 engine ...
Stable ... smoth even with many things go one on screen .. no problems in resolution to 4k and up ...
(as mentoned by Pocus it is the same engine that EU-IV use - who play totaly smoth and flawless in 4k on my machine today with the whole globe visible, thousands of units in move and many things under the hood claculating with all DLCs)
In contrary the DW2 engine is even not usable in "real" fullscreen - only window on desktop, with or without border - the "fake" fullscreen ...
Crashes frequently - shutter .... nothing at all smooth - and this not even in midgame ... so no match in any way with the stellaris gfx engine ...

[100thMonkey]

I have yet to experiment late game in DW2, so I don't know what the performance will be. But as to why it is possible in DW (1 or 2) to travel anywhere, without being constrained by "space routes", I believe that's because Eliott, the main (only?) DW programmer is very good at programming and at programming efficiency.

I would probably have loved many aspects of Stellaris. But when I saw that space travel would be constrained, I wasn't interested anymore. Once you've tasted DW's movement freedom, and all its strategic and tactical possibilities, there's no turning back... at least for me.

[R_TEAM]

I have yet to experiment late game in DW2, so I don't know what the performance will be. But as to why it is possible in DW (1 or 2) to travel anywhere, without being constrained by "space routes", I believe that's because Eliott, the main (only?) DW programmer is very good at programming and at programming efficiency.

I would probably have loved many aspects of Stellaris. But when I saw that space travel would be constrained, I wasn't interested anymore. Once you've tasted DW's movement freedom, and all its strategic and tactical possibilities, there's no turning back... at least for me.

here i musst 100% agree ...... (not specialy over the part with "Eliott" - as it was other 4X Space games before without travel restrictions and it will come other - it is no magic to programming this ....)
Have get Stellaris at the beginning with the promisse for 3 different hyper-travel methods .. one thing no other 4X space game have tryed before - and mainly one of the 2 things stellaris have promisseed at start that shine above other 4X Space games at this time [the other was the innovative border machanic] - but have failed hard on both ... the leftover is (as i wrote) an 4X Space game that is not bad ... but hard to tell good ..... (in few moments maybe)
[i think i musst not menton that i have stellaris deinstalled on end 2021 ...]
DW2 is theoretical an brilliant 4X space game (even with the many game mechanical flaws and ilogical behavor...) - but the actual state of the game is at best early-access level ..... just start beta testing ....

[Jorgas]

Good performance?
4 FPS, on a monster gaming PC. lol - it's a slideshow. (and this was only with 1000 stars, not 2000)

https://i.imgur.com/xp5IAoK.jpeg

[Llamageddon]

Crashes frequently - shutter .... nothing at all smooth - and this not even in midgame ... so no match in any way with the stellaris gfx engine ...

I've been having some of those problems, though not as bad as some people. But every patch has dramatically reduced them, and every single one I am still experiencing seems to be something that is just a rendering bug that can also be fixed through bug reports and a patch.

The performance problems with Stellaris on the other hand are a mix of hard limits from the Frankenstein's monster that the Clausewitz engine has become over the years, and, as you point out, inexplicable pig-headedness from the devs in sticking to a needlessly elaborate simulation of a part of the game that pretty much no one cares about or would notice if it wasn't there.

In that context, the issues you describe are certainly a problem, but unlike Stellaris, I have a lot of hope that they are an issue of when, rather than if, they will be fixed. Maybe I am naive, but if they can get past what are hopefully growing pains rather than hardcoded oversights with those graphics problems, then I agree with OP that things are showing a lot more promise than Stellaris in terms of performance.

I also haven't tried anything too crazy with game settings yet, so I might be disappointed, but higher settings already seem to be much more viable and smoother than Stellaris. I am prepared to feel like a fool after posting this if they can't get those more glitchy and severe graphics problems sorted out though.

[R_TEAM]

.........and in stellaris with mod is 10000+ space systems possible --- and still not as bad performance as in my DW2 game actual ... and i mean the pure gfx performance in game-pause on DW2 is still lower as in stellaris in non-pause......

:Edit:- have seen post from Llamageddon after sending ...
@Llamageddon
here i musst partly disagree ...
to stellaris ->
On EU-IV, the same engine works brilliant and smoth ...... so it is not the engine (even it is old and DX9 only it performs better as the DW2 engine...)
And the "...needlessly elaborate simulation of a part of the game..." had the chance to become important, as the idea is great ... but it failed here in the same horrible way as in many other aspects from the game...
to DW2 ->
I hope it will get better ..... but it is sooo much realy hard problems ... the engine ... game mechanics .. simply bugs ...
maybe the try to get on same level as actual 4X games was to much for the project .... a 2D solution would maybe the better aproach ....

[Llamageddon]

Good performance?
4 FPS, on a monster gaming PC. lol - it's a slideshow. (and this was only with 1000 stars, not 2000)

I have a similar problem, but it is really intermittent (hence my wild optimism in my previous post). It's very annoying though, and can't be consistently replicated, but it definitely has something to do with the UI overlays and map features. A screen like that will run happily at 60 FPS and then suddenly drop to less than 10. Almost anything that changes what is shown on the map can cause it.

Sensors is a good example, can have LR Scanners set to on, game will be working fine, suddenly slows to a crawl, turn them off, goes away. Opening diplomacy or any other those other screens seems to also, randomly be able to cause the same thing. Usually I can "reset" the FPS by switching things off/on or closing windows, sometimes it is weirder stuff like zooming in to system level and back out, or opening and closing ship designer window.

As I say, seems like something that should definitely be fixable with a bit of tweaking of the code or whatnot. If that FPS drop you have is not display related, and you are stuck with that just because of galaxy size and time played, then yeah, I think that is a far more serious problem for the game in the long term.

[R_TEAM]

Good performance?
4 FPS, on a monster gaming PC. lol - it's a slideshow. (and this was only with 1000 stars, not 2000)

https://i.imgur.com/xp5IAoK.jpeg

mhh ... have 2k stars and 4k screen ... it is "barely" playable .... imho ~10fps

[Jorgas]

Good performance?
4 FPS, on a monster gaming PC. lol - it's a slideshow. (and this was only with 1000 stars, not 2000)

I have a similar problem, but it is really intermittent (hence my wild optimism in my previous post). It's very annoying though, and can't be consistently replicated, but it definitely has something to do with the UI overlays and map features. A screen like that will run happily at 60 FPS and then suddenly drop to less than 10. Almost anything that changes what is shown on the map can cause it.

Sensors is a good example, can have LR Scanners set to on, game will be working fine, suddenly slows to a crawl, turn them off, goes away. Opening diplomacy or any other those other screens seems to also, randomly be able to cause the same thing. Usually I can "reset" the FPS by switching things off/on or closing windows, sometimes it is weirder stuff like zooming in to system level and back out, or opening and closing ship designer window.

As I say, seems like something that should definitely be fixable with a bit of tweaking of the code or whatnot. If that FPS drop you have is not display related, and you are stuck with that just because of galaxy size and time played, then yeah, I think that is a far more serious problem for the game in the long term.

Yeah, if I turn off civilian ships and other things, then I can get some FPS more (I've even lowered my resolution from 4k to 2k), I don't use any other overlays then the ones that were activated at the time of the screenshot, to high risk of the game just locking up and stopping to respond and I have to close it manually, lol. Heck, even zooming out more, can cause a CTD, freeze or a permanent unsavable-lockup.

Yeah, the diplomacy (and several other UI screens) take several seconds to open op, the research screen is the absolute worst for me, I go down to 1-2 FPS; before it recovers a bit, and I can maybe endure the slide show or the mouse-lag-input and pick a research that I want. (In the end I just turned on automation for research lol) , Funnily, I have no issue at all with the ship designer window at all, (but I always pause and sit and tinker with ship builds, so maybe Im just missing the FPS drop then), using shortcuts jumping from anyplace to the fleet, temporarily puts me at 1-2 FPS, and a 1-2-3-second freeze, before it just suddenly pops up to 60 FPS (while being zoomed in on a fleet)

There are just so many issues, just the RAM-Memory-Leak are insane, after playing for 30 minutes or so I have to close the entire game, cause it just keeps eating more and more RAM (screenshot attached) My highest RAM usage was around 13GIG? I think, the game barely responded anymore at that point. (64ddr4 installed on my system, from ballistic).


Every single new started game (with new patches) is basically the same, I start, I expand, do some wars, and then the turn into a game unplayable in a horribly bad slide show (even with all UI layers, and many game settings on OFF(ie civilian ships, and others)).

It's not hard to understand why the game have gone from 5000 players on steam, to barely under 2000 daily, so short after release, it's just not worth it in the end. :/

[Mercbeast]

this musst be from the thread creator an pure fanboy or troll posting ....
Stellaris "have" an problem with the performance on late game (the root are the many "mostly senseless as anyway no impact have" citizens calculations ...) - have played stellaris for years - it is a medicore 4X game at best from the point of game machanics...
But the gfx engine whope the floor with the DW2 engine ...
Stable ... smoth even with many things go one on screen .. no problems in resolution to 4k and up ...
(as mentoned by Pocus it is the same engine that EU-IV use - who play totaly smoth and flawless in 4k on my machine today with the whole globe visible, thousands of units in move and many things under the hood claculating with all DLCs)
In contrary the DW2 engine is even not usable in "real" fullscreen - only window on desktop, with or without border - the "fake" fullscreen ...
Crashes frequently - shutter .... nothing at all smooth - and this not even in midgame ... so no match in any way with the stellaris gfx engine ...

This is probably an issue on your end. I'm running the game with an 11600k geforce 3070 and 32 gigs of ram.

In the mid game (I keep restarting), I can activate cheat engine to accelerate time beyond the 4x speed. I can run the game at 20x speed using cheat engine, with thousands and thousands of ships, and a month goes by in about 3s. If I am zoomed WAY out to observe the entire galaxy, and I have a lot of stuff turned on, on the overlay, my FPS will drop to 20ish. If I zoom in and look at a reasonable area, my FPS will drop to 35ish. If I toggle the speed acceleration off and go back to 4x speed, my FPS will go to 80-100+. I imagine this may be an issue late, LATE game, but even then, considering what is going on in this game versus Stellaris. Stellaris would melt your computer or just break if it was trying to do as much shit as this game is doing in even the mid game in this game.

So yea, even if this game has optimization issues with the overlays (most space games of this type that use overlays like this do have this issue in my experience), it's still performing better than Stellaris relatively speaking. Anyone who played the X4 release, will probably remember how bad the overlay for that game was lagging things when you went to the map. It just seems like a common issue.

[Karri]

considering what is going on in this game versus Stellaris. Stellaris would melt your computer or just break if it was trying to do as much shit as this game is doing in even the mid game in this game.

The only thing that is considerably different is the way ships & Shipping is handled. But on the other hand, the population is a simple number with no depth compared to Stellaris. Most of the lag, at least in my Stellaris games, comes from each empire having thousands of pops.

[Llamageddon]

Yeah, the diplomacy (and several other UI screens) take several seconds to open op, the research screen is the absolute worst for me, I go down to 1-2 FPS; before it recovers a bit, and I can maybe endure the slide show or the mouse-lag-input and pick a research that I want. (In the end I just turned on automation for research lol) , Funnily, I have no issue at all with the ship designer window at all, (but I always pause and sit and tinker with ship builds, so maybe Im just missing the FPS drop then), using shortcuts jumping from anyplace to the fleet, temporarily puts me at 1-2 FPS, and a 1-2-3-second freeze, before it just suddenly pops up to 60 FPS (while being zoomed in on a fleet)

Interesting, I have absolutely no problem at all on the research screen. It seems that ironically, most of the massive FPS drops a lot of people are having are related to the 2D elements of the game and not the 3d. Seems like this is much more to do with bugs with how it is rendering stuff or interacting with graphics drivers rather than poor optimisation or use of hardware resources.

I'd post on the tech support forum about my issues, but I'm not even sure where to start; hardly any of it is consistently reproducible for me or following any kind of obvious pattern. They might be interested in your case though, as it sounds more predictable and also might have a more clearly identifiable cause. Your observation about number of players is insightful, sucks that so many are having these problems. I hope they can sort it out quickly, as otherwise I think this game has a lot of potential as a new entry in the 4X genre.

[R_TEAM]

this musst be from the thread creator an pure fanboy or troll posting ....
Stellaris "have" an problem with the performance on late game (the root are the many "mostly senseless as anyway no impact have" citizens calculations ...) - have played stellaris for years - it is a medicore 4X game at best from the point of game machanics...
But the gfx engine whope the floor with the DW2 engine ...
Stable ... smoth even with many things go one on screen .. no problems in resolution to 4k and up ...
(as mentoned by Pocus it is the same engine that EU-IV use - who play totaly smoth and flawless in 4k on my machine today with the whole globe visible, thousands of units in move and many things under the hood claculating with all DLCs)
In contrary the DW2 engine is even not usable in "real" fullscreen - only window on desktop, with or without border - the "fake" fullscreen ...
Crashes frequently - shutter .... nothing at all smooth - and this not even in midgame ... so no match in any way with the stellaris gfx engine ...

This is probably an issue on your end. I'm running the game with an 11600k geforce 3070 and 32 gigs of ram.

In the mid game (I keep restarting), I can activate cheat engine to accelerate time beyond the 4x speed. I can run the game at 20x speed using cheat engine, with thousands and thousands of ships, and a month goes by in about 3s. If I am zoomed WAY out to observe the entire galaxy, and I have a lot of stuff turned on, on the overlay, my FPS will drop to 20ish. If I zoom in and look at a reasonable area, my FPS will drop to 35ish. If I toggle the speed acceleration off and go back to 4x speed, my FPS will go to 80-100+. I imagine this may be an issue late, LATE game, but even then, considering what is going on in this game versus Stellaris. Stellaris would melt your computer or just break if it was trying to do as much shit as this game is doing in even the mid game in this game.

So yea, even if this game has optimization issues with the overlays (most space games of this type that use overlays like this do have this issue in my experience), it's still performing better than Stellaris relatively speaking. Anyone who played the X4 release, will probably remember how bad the overlay for that game was lagging things when you went to the map. It just seems like a common issue.

you musst be joking ....
i doing proffesional high end 3D Animation and Video editing stuff on an 12core xeon workstation with 8 channel ECC RAM and an AMD pro GPU ........ LOL
(and i doing this from the end of the 90'tys - so sorry kid ...)
You clearly dont understand game developing/engines and GFX overlays at all ... no point to discuss this with an kid who think he has the newest and best toy from his parrents

[Llamageddon]

You clearly dont understand game developing/engines and GFX overlays at all ... no point to discuss this with an kid who think he has the newest and best toy from his parrents

Not sure what them not experiencing the same issues as you on their rig, or mentioning other games having had performance issues from UI elements has to do with their knowledge of game development. A non sequitur comment like that kind of sounds like it is more like the other way around.

[Mercbeast]

this musst be from the thread creator an pure fanboy or troll posting ....
Stellaris "have" an problem with the performance on late game (the root are the many "mostly senseless as anyway no impact have" citizens calculations ...) - have played stellaris for years - it is a medicore 4X game at best from the point of game machanics...
But the gfx engine whope the floor with the DW2 engine ...
Stable ... smoth even with many things go one on screen .. no problems in resolution to 4k and up ...
(as mentoned by Pocus it is the same engine that EU-IV use - who play totaly smoth and flawless in 4k on my machine today with the whole globe visible, thousands of units in move and many things under the hood claculating with all DLCs)
In contrary the DW2 engine is even not usable in "real" fullscreen - only window on desktop, with or without border - the "fake" fullscreen ...
Crashes frequently - shutter .... nothing at all smooth - and this not even in midgame ... so no match in any way with the stellaris gfx engine ...

This is probably an issue on your end. I'm running the game with an 11600k geforce 3070 and 32 gigs of ram.

In the mid game (I keep restarting), I can activate cheat engine to accelerate time beyond the 4x speed. I can run the game at 20x speed using cheat engine, with thousands and thousands of ships, and a month goes by in about 3s. If I am zoomed WAY out to observe the entire galaxy, and I have a lot of stuff turned on, on the overlay, my FPS will drop to 20ish. If I zoom in and look at a reasonable area, my FPS will drop to 35ish. If I toggle the speed acceleration off and go back to 4x speed, my FPS will go to 80-100+. I imagine this may be an issue late, LATE game, but even then, considering what is going on in this game versus Stellaris. Stellaris would melt your computer or just break if it was trying to do as much shit as this game is doing in even the mid game in this game.

So yea, even if this game has optimization issues with the overlays (most space games of this type that use overlays like this do have this issue in my experience), it's still performing better than Stellaris relatively speaking. Anyone who played the X4 release, will probably remember how bad the overlay for that game was lagging things when you went to the map. It just seems like a common issue.

you musst be joking ....
i doing proffesional high end 3D Animation and Video editing stuff on an 12core xeon workstation with 8 channel ECC RAM and an AMD pro GPU ........ LOL
(and i doing this from the end of the 90'tys - so sorry kid ...)
You clearly dont understand game developing/engines and GFX overlays at all ... no point to discuss this with an kid who think he has the newest and best toy from his parrents

I'm probably older than you, but in terms of maturity, I'm definitely older than you. I offered my take and experience, and you got offended, called me a child, and then postured like a 12 year old.

Grow up.

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, a few things here.

First, our forum rules require that discussions be civil and polite. They also forbid trolling. Let's all keep that in mind.

Second, I'm not interested in DW2 vs Whatever other game threads here please. There's room for many Sci-Fi 4x style games. If you'd like to discuss Stellaris, we have a General Discussion forum for that.

Finally, we're still working on investigating and resolving issues that are causing a wide range of problems on some systems, from crashes, freezes and hangs, to performance problems. At this point you can have a system running DW2 very well and another on paper more powerful system struggling to run it. We're working through all that and at some point (hopefully very soon!) everyone will be able to play DW2 as intended. If you'd like to discuss the performance then, there may be a point but right now I think there are too many issues still in the way to get a good sense on some systems.

Regards,

- Erik