First thing to build as the US?

[GiveWarAchance]

Imagine a pack of 108 submarines. Impossible of course, but like a giant school of metal sharks they could easily devour any fleet if they are able to get into position. Or the fleet could cruise by them too fast for the subs to engage.

[ncc1701e]

Imagine a pack of 108 submarines. Impossible of course, but like a giant school of metal sharks they could easily devour any fleet if they are able to get into position. Or the fleet could cruise by them too fast for the subs to engage.

Mitigated by the fact that one hex is representing 50 miles. That's mean 108 subs in 50 miles of ocean.
Don't ask me if this is possible or not. That's a lot for sure.

[GiveWarAchance]

I was thinking that deploying 108 subs in WW2 seems kind of a lot.

Are you sure subs are OP? I feel subs are too weak. Every time I assign subs to raid a Japanese convoy route, they get immediately hammered with heavy damage or get sunk every time within one turn I think by Japanese bombers but it is too fast to see what is hitting them. Then the survivors return to a port and sit there waiting for repairs that don't seem to happen. I think the ROI for subs is extremely negative when you measure the tiny loss of merchant fleet sunk versus subs built, deployed and immediately damaged or sunk so they are out of the war. I guess the Japanese bombers are far better at bombing subs than the US cause my bombers get a result "cannot find fleet" when they try to bomb Japanese subs.

[GiveWarAchance]

The AI is smacking around my convoys both merchant ships and escorts using multiple 5 sub groups.

Pretty historical by the way if you are playing Japan. Did you research Anti-Submarine Warfare technology? Do you have planes with this technology protecting your convoy routes?

I am US side. I have the entire array of techs being researched.

[ncc1701e]

Are you sure subs are OP? I feel subs are too weak.

eskuche is saying exactly the contrary. Thus, game is balanced.

[GiveWarAchance]

I guess this sub issue has been resolved. Oddly if any tweak is applied, it will please some players and royally mess up others. Alvaro knows how to keep the game in balance.

[*Lava*]

I was thinking that deploying 108 subs in WW2 seems kind of a lot.

Are you sure subs are OP? I feel subs are too weak. Every time I assign subs to raid a Japanese convoy route, they get immediately hammered with heavy damage or get sunk every time within one turn I think by Japanese bombers but it is too fast to see what is hitting them. Then the survivors return to a port and sit there waiting for repairs that don't seem to happen. I think the ROI for subs is extremely negative when you measure the tiny loss of merchant fleet sunk versus subs built, deployed and immediately damaged or sunk so they are out of the war. I guess the Japanese bombers are far better at bombing subs than the US cause my bombers get a result "cannot find fleet" when they try to bomb Japanese subs.

In my last campaign I built 15 LR subs to maintain 2 groups of 5 in the Japanese convoy routes. You have to be careful to place your subs out of range of medium bombers with a range of 8 hexes. Bombers are the main threat to submarines and if you place your subs such that more than 1 bomber unit can attack them... well, you are going to take some major damage. I also bought lots of oilers to keep them on station and each move I would cycle damage units back to base and replace them with my reserves.

As far as what to buy... I first bought all 4 CVLs for the US and then started buying LR subs. In hindsight, I would go with enough LR subs (around 8) to be able to keep a group of 5 continuously on station in the Japanese convoy routes and then look at buying at least a couple CVLs. I also started right from the get go with 6 points in LR submarines for research. What I discovered was that the subs were so effective at interdicting Japanese shipping, that the Japanese navy was immobilized and the "normal" construction of large amounts of Japanese aircraft units to support China, did not happen.

From my experience, the Japanese AI did not build replacement merchant marine to replace losses and that crippled them in the mid to late war. I would thus recommend that the AI be programmed to try to replace some of these merchants if they are taking too many hits.

[GiveWarAchance]

I was thinking that deploying 108 subs in WW2 seems kind of a lot.

Are you sure subs are OP? I feel subs are too weak. Every time I assign subs to raid a Japanese convoy route, they get immediately hammered with heavy damage or get sunk every time within one turn I think by Japanese bombers but it is too fast to see what is hitting them. Then the survivors return to a port and sit there waiting for repairs that don't seem to happen. I think the ROI for subs is extremely negative when you measure the tiny loss of merchant fleet sunk versus subs built, deployed and immediately damaged or sunk so they are out of the war. I guess the Japanese bombers are far better at bombing subs than the US cause my bombers get a result "cannot find fleet" when they try to bomb Japanese subs.

In my last campaign I built 15 LR subs to maintain 2 groups of 5 in the Japanese convoy routes. You have to be careful to place your subs out of range of medium bombers with a range of 8 hexes. Bombers are the main threat to submarines and if you place your subs such that more than 1 bomber unit can attack them... well, you are going to take some major damage. I also bought lots of oilers to keep them on station and each move I would cycle damage units back to base and replace them with my reserves.

As far as what to buy... I first bought all 4 CVLs for the US and then started buying LR subs. In hindsight, I would go with enough LR subs (around 8) to be able to keep a group of 5 continuously on station in the Japanese convoy routes and then look at buying at least a couple CVLs. I also started right from the get go with 6 points in LR submarines for research. What I discovered was that the subs were so effective at interdicting Japanese shipping, that the Japanese navy was immobilized and the "normal" construction of large amounts of Japanese aircraft units to support China, did not happen.

From my experience, the Japanese AI did not build replacement merchant marine to replace losses and that crippled them in the mid to late war. I would thus recommend that the AI be programmed to try to replace some of these merchants if they are taking too many hits.

Wow trust the elite player Lava to know how to use subs. Six points piled onto LR subs is huge. Does that make it research much faster? Maybe your higher level subs are harder to sink and do more damage. Where do you repair your subs? Do you put them in nearer UK ports or move them back to Pearl? Where is best for repairs. My subs are now in UK ports like northern Australia and an island port but no repairs happen. I am using Pearl to repair surface ships that got smacked by air strikes while supporting marines landing on islands.

I am thinking your elite use of subs is actually unfair to Japan so they can't cope with the merchant ship loss. Maybe you should water down your sub focus and try a surface ship focus instead for a more competitive game. But to be fair, it sounds like what you are doing is pretty much how the US destroyed the enemy convoys using subs historically.

[*Lava*]

elite player

Yep, I think it is a pretty historical way to fight the war.

I would station my submarines in the closest main supply naval base (naval base with a yellow ring around it) to the Japanese convoy routes. I would also keep my reinforcement/upgrade figure quite high... well above the number needed for upkeep. So, for example, if upkeep was 50, my reinforcement/upgrade amount would be close to 200. My experience was that a sub unit would repair 1 damage per turn if stationed in a main supply naval base.

The higher the amount of points you place into a research area should increase how quickly they level up, though I understand there is some randomness there. With subs you are getting increases in attack and defense factors. By the time you get to 1943, your subs should be pretty capable.

Mind you, it takes awhile to get enough subs and a position on the map to maintain groups of 5 in the Japanese convoy lanes. You just start with what you have (though they won't do much damage) and build up.

Good hunting!

[*Lava*]

Forgot to add... there are at least 2 and I think actually 3 upgrades to US torpedoes that occur during the war. Once these upgrades are made, your submarines should be getting far more merchant kills.

So it is an uphill climb, but if you stick with it, it will pay dividends.

Cheerio!

[ncc1701e]

This is my third PBEM as Allies started with the latest patch. Well, we need to reinforce Australia, New Zealand, India with divisions, planes, reinforcements/upgrades.

For this, we need PP from USA. First thing to build as the US? I say Merchant Marines.

At start, all the 43 MMs of the USA are used. If you want to reinforce your Allies, you need more MMs.

[GiveWarAchance]

elite player

Yep, I think it is a pretty historical way to fight the war.

I would station my submarines in the closest main supply naval base (naval base with a yellow ring around it) to the Japanese convoy routes. I would also keep my reinforcement/upgrade figure quite high... well above the number needed for upkeep. So, for example, if upkeep was 50, my reinforcement/upgrade amount would be close to 200. My experience was that a sub unit would repair 1 damage per turn if stationed in a main supply naval base.

The higher the amount of points you place into a research area should increase how quickly they level up, though I understand there is some randomness there. With subs you are getting increases in attack and defense factors. By the time you get to 1943, your subs should be pretty capable.

Mind you, it takes awhile to get enough subs and a position on the map to maintain groups of 5 in the Japanese convoy lanes. You just start with what you have (though they won't do much damage) and build up.

Good hunting!

Thanks Lava. I have 2 new groups of 4 subs each doing good now. I think they are in a safer place plus the torpedo defects were fixed. They are beyond the nasty naval bomber range at least for the moment. Ironically I feel a bit bad picking on the convoys now, but I remember the atrocities they commit against POWs and that helps to keep us focused.

In Darwin port and an island port, there are piles of smashed up subs rusting from my earlier failures.

[GiveWarAchance]

Another random different question if you don't mind - why are my infantry units in China and New Zealand always dwindling? The chinese "army groups" which should be massive 70,000 soldier formations dwindle down below 30% strength and have attack/def stats of 1/1 despite not being in combat and never recover from the mass starvation and desertions except occasionally they rise to 2/2 which basically means a few of them can stand up using rifles as crutches and holding onto each other for support. They are always in supply so that should not be the reason. When attacked, they easily evaporate. The New Zealand units are sitting on their own cities but still starving to death.

Also wonder why New Zealand can't recruit new units except for one division to help secure their own homeland. In WW2, they had an army in N. Africa and in Italy. I am wondering if this game assumes they still do have an army over in Europe and therefore can't recruit any more from their tiny country.

[*Lava*]

Another random different question if you don't mind - why are my infantry units in China and New Zealand always dwindling? The chinese "army groups" which should be massive 70,000 soldier formations dwindle down below 30% strength and have attack/def stats of 1/1 despite not being in combat and never recover from the mass starvation and desertions. They are in supply. When attacked, they easily evaporate. The New Zealand units are sitting on their own cities but still starving to death.

China is tricky, especially at the beginning of the war. Here is who I micromanage them:

1. Always turn on the supply overlay before moving. You must make sure your troops are always occupying the best supply hexes and the Japanese the worse as possible. If necessary, do not hesitate to fall back to an easier line to defend which has high supply values.
2. Don't worry too much about the Japanese outflanking you around the North. Those are all supply 1, so they will melt away before being able to attack you. Use that Communist Mountain Corps between you and them.
3. In the South, around the area of Kunming, the terrain is also treacherous. Put your folks in the city and on the roads and turn off reinforcements and upgrades. You should see a red cross on the counter.
4. In the first year or so, have your units on reinforce only - no upgrades. Prioritize reinforcements (clicking the little green plus sign) to only the folks who are on the actual battle line.
5. Set reinf./upgrades to a number well above what you are producing. You want all your reinforcements going to those folks which you prioritize reinforcements to.
6. You are not going to be able to get your Corps to 30, so forget about that. Set a goal that you think you can achieve for your front line folks (such as 20) and then prioritize them for reinforcements. As the war goes on and you start getting more production, start to bring those numbers up... say to 25. But don't worry about having units with 10/30 if they aren't likely to see combat.

Overall, you really need to prioritize who gets reinforcements. So if you production is 14, probably best not to be prioritizing more than 14 units, and I would normally be reinforcing no more than half... so 6 with 14 PPs. Keep as many troops on roads that is possible and put your best units defending intersections.

Also wonder why New Zealand can't recruit new units except for one division to help secure their own homeland. In WW2, they had an army in N. Africa and in Italy. I am wondering if this game assumes they still do have an army over in Europe and therefore can't recruit any more from their tiny country.

New Zealand will only get reinforcements if you send them production via convoy. I tried something like 8 production and 2 oil, but, in the end, I let them go as they really can't give you the kind of units you need in combat.

That is how I play. I think allied folks get all wrapped up around the Australia and India theatre, but in fact, I believe, the most vulnerable is China. Play China well, and you will win the game handily, IMO.

[*Lava*]

This is my third PBEM as Allies started with the latest patch. Well, we need to reinforce Australia, New Zealand, India with divisions, planes, reinforcements/upgrades.

For this, we need PP from USA. First thing to build as the US? I say Merchant Marines.

At start, all the 43 MMs of the USA are used. If you want to reinforce your Allies, you need more MMs.

You have a good point there, but I believe that at the beginning of the war (1941 Campaign) only 4 of the 43 MM are in use. I do agree with you that buying MM is important early on as they take 180 days to build.

So yea, at the start I might buy 2 LR Subs and 1 MM on turn 1. However, as soon as the Yorktown and Saratoga are commissioned on turn 3 which frees up ship yards, I think I would probably try to get at least 8 LR Subs to attack the Japanese Convoy Routes and then buy at least 4 CVLs afterwards with at a couple more MM interspersed as well. Then, back to the subs to get up to a minimum of 15 always on hand.

Of course, I don't play PBEM, but I can't see how the Japanese could mount a sufficient enough of a threat to Australia and New Zealand that my ground and air forces on hand and already in the production queue, couldn't handle, or at least slow sufficiently until I could build new units to reinforce.

I'm sure a really good Japanese player would be happy to prove me wrong though.

[ncc1701e]

You are right, only 4 are used but I am quickly using all of them at the end of the first turn.
Thanks for your insights about China.

[GiveWarAchance]

Thanks Lava. I always very carefully use the supply overlay when moving in China and Burma, but your idea of adjusting reinforcement rates is new for me. I will start doing that.

I'm starting to hold okay now in China and even wiped a couple of Japanese infantry units despite most of my units being 1/1. I built a Chinese tank battalion if you can believe it and it held off the badguys' main attack for a few turns before moving back due to losses. I'm rotating in new infantry units and cavalry for the Japanese to fight with and the worn-out survivors move back to cities. I feel now that a Chinese infantry unit with 1/2 stats is a vital defensive asset. I built some cavalry to help plug up holes. The commies built a couple mountain units which are really holding off the north well. The badguys are struggling to attack in the south too but my flimsy line is holding.

For New Zealand and Australia, I was wondering about their own homeland defense. I saw one picture from another player's game showing a large Japanese invasion of Australia down by Sydney which was frightening. I built 2 large infantry and 2 tank battalions for sending to Australia for homeland security.

[*Lava*]

I believe in earlier editions of the game the Japanese had a lot more landing craft at the start of the war and that allowed them to fairly quickly attack either India or Australia.

Not sure if that is true though.