Who moves CV first loses?

[ncc1701e]

I just add my own Midway. Three Japanase CV sunk - One DD sunk on USA side.
It was in the Solomons around Guadalcanal.

Analyzing it, USA did put a fleet of 5 BB out near Guadalcanal in a reconnaissance medium hex for me. I have two fighters covering the area plus one Tactical Bomber. Tactical Bomber ready for naval interception.

I decide to launch the Kido Butai to perform a Carrier Strike that was not so successful.

End of turn.

During the enemy turn, my opponent send a fleet of CA/DD to oblige the CV to do a first answer - Carrier strike or interception, I don't remember, one USA DD lost.

Then, a second move from its BB, a second Carrier strike or interception. No result.

So that's leave my CV fleet out of operation points.

And then, he send his CV fleet. First Carrier Pursuit, two Japanase CV sunk. And then, with the operation point remaining one Carrier Strike, one more Japanase CV sunk.

At no time my Tactical Bomber did anything, no naval interception. My Tactical Bomber was in range of the three fleets.

Is there no rule that land based planes are the first doing naval interception before any fleet?

With this pattern, I can say Who moves CV first loses.

[sveint]

Just bad luck on your part, could have gone the other way.

Slight advantage US since you'd lost some efficiency bombing the battleships. They were bait after all.

[AlvaroSousa]

There is also baiting.

Say the Japanese send 4 CVs to Midway and the US player decides to commit thinking the rest of the CVs are elsewhere.

Now the Japanese move in the other 6 to finish the US fleet off after their turn.

This was my game with Hadros on occasion.

[*Lava*]

Baiting works quite well against the AI.

When I attacked Rabual, I attacked with 2 surface groups of BB's and CA's. Sure enough, the Japanese responded with their CVs. I then attacked their CVs with my bombers and 2 TF's of CVs.

BTW, the Japanese also responded with their Patrol Boats and sink one of my BBs.

[ncc1701e]

Baiting works quite well against the AI.

It works well against me too.

All right, so next time, I will try something different. Since the land based planes did not react, I am a little worried about fleets in night mode being attacked by CV fleet. There is nothing like that?

[ncc1701e]

I have also done a big mistake. Engaging a CV fleet without any other fleet in range for supporting it. I will do more tests but I think mutual support between fleets is a key principle.

[Remington700]

CVs cannot attack surface ships using night move. However they can trigger an interdiction attempt where the ships in night move attack the carrier fleet.

2022-03-31_16-07-01.jpg (65.51 KiB) Viewed 1033 times

[Remington700]

I have also done a big mistake. Engaging a CV fleet without any other fleet in range for supporting it. I will do more tests but I think mutual support between fleets is a key principle.

This is an another use of the patrol craft. Send two of them in one at a time to soak off the interdictions. Then hit the CVs with multiple CV fleets and LBA. I am not a fan of it as I like the carrier battles. So I send in the carriers to see what happens - but not the most effective way to play.

[generalfdog]

I have had it go both ways, if you move first sometimes you can get first strike and sink those bait battleships and your opponent counter attack fails to find you then you can either run next turn or attack the fleet that came after you. That is also where the intel part of the game comes in, if you can see where his carriers are you might not have done that

[ncc1701e]

CVs cannot attack surface ships using night move. However they can trigger an interdiction attempt where the ships in night move attack the carrier fleet.

Thanks for the test

[ncc1701e]

This is an another use of the patrol craft. Send two of them in one at a time to soak off the interdictions. Then hit the CVs with multiple CV fleets and LBA. I am not a fan of it as I like the carrier battles. So I send in the carriers to see what happens - but not the most effective way to play.

Right, so you are putting a juicy target, waiting enemy CV to show up, sacrifying two low assets for enemy CV to spend their carrier interdiction, and then you send your CV with low risk to do your own attack. The fact is that the enemy CV was in range of friendly land based bombers that did not move. And, this is a normal? Sorry but I don't like this pattern.

[ncc1701e]

So, I did more hotseat testing. I am under the impression that, during the Carrier Interdiction, the planes in Buin did a Naval Air Strike since their effectiveness has been lowered. However, nothing is noted in the Combat Logs. Thus, my impression that nothing was done. It is like if the Carrier Interdiction took over the Naval Air Strike. But there is indeed a red arrow displayed from Buin.

As a consequence, I am quite puzzled. Shoudn't we have two logs, first the Naval Air Strike and then the Carrier Interdiction? And, also, why two units involved at the same time? Are they both losing one operation point in the process?

Thanks

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carrier interdiction.JPG (125.89 KiB) Viewed 938 times

[Remington700]

This is an another use of the patrol craft. Send two of them in one at a time to soak off the interdictions. Then hit the CVs with multiple CV fleets and LBA. I am not a fan of it as I like the carrier battles. So I send in the carriers to see what happens - but not the most effective way to play.

Right, so you are putting a juicy target, waiting enemy CV to show up, sacrifying two low assets for enemy CV to spend their carrier interdiction, and then you send your CV with low risk to do your own attack. The fact is that the enemy CV was in range of friendly land based bombers that did not move. And, this is a normal? Sorry but I don't like this pattern.

I ran four tests off of a saved game file for turn 2. An unescorted five strength allied unit is transported into the Bismarck Sea between Rabaul and the Japanese fleet off of Manus. It seems which ever is closer interdicts, be it the air unit or the fleet.
- 1 hex from Rabaul: sunk by the air unit in Rabaul
- 2 hexes from Rabaul: sunk by the air unit
- 3 hexes from Rabaul: sunk by the IJN fleet (2 hexes away)
- 4 hexes from Rabaul: sunk by the IJN fleet (1 hex away)

2022-04-01_15-53-47.jpg (180.51 KiB) Viewed 914 times

[ncc1701e]

Thanks a lot, I have find the problem and what I was not understanding. Surface Interdiction and Carrier Interdiction are working the same way. But, Carrier Interdiction does not log Naval Air Interdiction done whereas Surface Interdiction is correctly displaying the Naval Air Interdiction done.

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surface interdiction 1.JPG (113.52 KiB) Viewed 868 times

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I will report it in the Tech Support sub forum.

[Remington700]

That explains the red arrow I saw coming from Rabaul during the test when Naval interdiction occurred. The attack is there - just not recorded. Thank you.

[*Lava*]

That explains the red arrow I saw coming from Rabaul during the test when Naval interdiction occurred. The attack is there - just not recorded. Thank you.

Yep, the attacks can happen very rapidly and you can easily miss them.

The same happens with air attacks on submarines. Folks also miss them and wonder what attacked my submarines?

If the attacks can't be recorded, perhaps, the duration of the red attack line could be increased by a second or two so that is easier to notice.

[ncc1701e]

If the attack can't be recorded, how can you truss the damage done or not done by the attack? This needs to be fixed. Every attack, and result, must be in the Combat Logs window.