First turn air tips?

[Zovs]

Just some notes.

In WitW there are a lot of sorties that are set to 4 aircraft.

I like to use 24-30 for a GA on turn 1.

Both can be intercepted.

4 patches back (pre .20) I was experimenting with 4 sortie aircraft for recon missions and would see an interception here or there.

So as far as I know interceptions can happen anytime with any amount. Size does not matter per se.

[tyronec]

Here is a snippet of Soviet fighters intercepting GA on the first turn. My experience so far is that small GA raids can be intercepted just as well as large raids.

I set up a test bed to check this out a while back.
Small missions are definitely intercepted significantly less often, to the extent that A2A losses can be reduced to 10% or so. There are many parameters at play here so I can understand that it is not always going to make that much difference but I have seen this sort of effect both in game and from the test bed.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Here is a snippet of Soviet fighters intercepting GA on the first turn. My experience so far is that small GA raids can be intercepted just as well as large raids.

I set up a test bed to check this out a while back.
Small missions are definitely intercepted significantly less often, to the extent that A2A losses can be reduced to 10% or so. There are many parameters at play here so I can understand that it is not always going to make that much difference but I have seen this sort of effect both in game and from the test bed.

To me, and it is just me, it seems that small raids should be much harder to intercept. /shrug

[tyronec]

To me, and it is just me, it seems that small raids should be much harder to intercept. /shrug

I agree. But not for multiple small missions flying in the same airspace, they would be easier to intercept - both logic and history tell us that.

If you set up the GAs to have 10 missions of 100 aircraft in a day then you get moderate interception level while if you set them up to have 500 missions of 2 aircraft in a day then you get modest interception.

The resolution is to have a house rule banning massed missions of low numbers of aircraft. Until this is changed I would only play with that house rule because if the Soviet player takes advantage then they have an auto-win in the Campaign.

[loki100]

agree with Tyrone on this, there was a serious abuse in WiTW of breaking a bombing directive into multiple small missions (all from the same command the same target) to avoid interception.

one of those things that quite simply shouldn't be done

the reason why small missions get less attention is partly to avoid too much chasing of recon flights and partly to stop the alternative abuse of using small missions to use up the defender's air miles before the real missions were committed

[56ajax]

Well I have been mucking around with the air war T1 for 2 weeks now. Heres what i think you should do.

Read Zovs excellent guide and generally follow it.

Get your bombers as close to the front line as possible, as range, not fighter coverage is most important on T1.

Do all your load outs re - assignments hierarchy changes etc before you create any Air Directives. (Otherwise you might break some air directives).

Re supply any airbases as required.

Create Air Directives to bomb any airbase containing Fighters on priority V High and any other airbase not containing Fighters on High. For the first cut I tend to use Auto for air unit selection.

Execute your ADs and check the results, adjusting nos of raids, planes etc as required.

Bring up the CR report for your airforce and check travel - you will find some air units at 100% and some at 0. Manually adjust some of the ADs to use air units that havent travelled. This will spread the load.

In my latest run losses stand at 41/4225. 32 are operational and there is no air combat. I will push on but may be getting close to the boundary of decreasing returns.

Note -On Auto assignment of air units. The systems determines which unit will be auto assigned when you create the AD and not on the fly when you execute the AD. I havent got a clue on why it picks the ones it does but sometimes it gives you a hint which one it is by the aircraft count.

[tyronec]

Get your bombers as close to the front line as possible, as range, not fighter coverage is most important on T1.

I have a question about this tactic which someone may know the answer to.
What happens to the supplies at an airfield if the aircraft are moved off it, do they get recycled somehow are are they just lost ?

[loki100]

Think it depends a bit.

If the original air base is emptied and that freight can be triggered for in-turn resupply (to a new airbase or related to combat), it might be emptied at that stage. Otherwise, and more likely, if the airbase is empty its set to 0 supply priority and the freight redistributed in the logistics phase

[tyronec]

If the original air base is emptied and that freight can be triggered for in-turn resupply (to a new airbase or related to combat), it might be emptied at that stage. Otherwise, and more likely, if the airbase is empty its set to 0 supply priority and the freight redistributed in the logistics phase

Are you sure about this, I haven't seen anything in the game about freight being redistributed from an empty airbase ?
My assumption has always been that it just got lost, but maybe that is incorrect.

[malyhin1517]

I'm more interested in where the goods from the captured enemy warehouses go? They are always empty!

[loki100]

If the original air base is emptied and that freight can be triggered for in-turn resupply (to a new airbase or related to combat), it might be emptied at that stage. Otherwise, and more likely, if the airbase is empty its set to 0 supply priority and the freight redistributed in the logistics phase

Are you sure about this, I haven't seen anything in the game about freight being redistributed from an empty airbase ?
My assumption has always been that it just got lost, but maybe that is incorrect.

ok done a test on an older save, emptied Vinnitsa of its air (and sent them over 40 hexes away)

here's the next turn



and here is what was left after I moved the air units



so its not cleared out everything but but all the vehicles and about half the supply went, I'd suspect the balance will clear out in the following turns.

[tyronec]

I agree with that part, move the air groups out and the supply reduces.
But where does it go to ?
There is nothing in the logistics report to say supply can go from an airbase back into the system somewhere.
Logic would suggest that as air groups move from airbase to airbase then the transport system should take their supplies with them, but has that ever been coded into the game ?
I suspect it just gets lost, but I don't know.

This came up during testing about whether supply would follow the Luftwaffe forwards as Axis advance and my recollection was that there was no confirmation that it does.

[loki100]

Why assume a complication?

From the logistics log, the airbase shed its TOE, the trucks went, presumably back to the pool. The depot 'received' more freight than the transport data shows (172)



so that indicates some extra transfer and the airbase is most likely source - it had to come from somewhere?

I agree its unlikely the freight has followed the planes (at least over distance). it might have been used for an emergency resupply.

[tyronec]

Why assume a complication?

My assumption is very simple - the stored freight in an abandoned airbase just gets lost. It would be good to have confirmation if this is the case.

I did a test and as far as I can see it doesn't seem to go anywhere.

So to go back to the tip from Ajax where he suggested moving the bombers closer to the front line. You may get a few more kills from this and have a less ops losses but if I am correct about airbase supplies then there is a heavy cost in supplies. I don't think the benefits justify the cost.

[56ajax]

I have sort of finished my ADs.

I ran them without change 11 times.

Axis KIA - ranges from 9 to 50

Air Combat losses ranges from 0 to 40

Flak ranges from 7 to 24

Total Lossess ranges from 47 to 87

Sov KIA ranges from 697 to 758

Sov lossess ranges from 4195 to 4427

Now to see if I can make some improvements.