There was no retreat losses for a Sevastopol? If it is a case then i wonder what is your thoughts about it?
As i find that attacker takes very low losses in case of a hold.
Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Moderator: Joel Billings
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Слава Україні!
Glory to Ukraine!
Glory to Ukraine!
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
well I took >1,000 but then those rules don't apply to Sevastopol as its a rough not urban hex. I guess that is down a bit on earlier patches when I could have had a couple of divisions unready off that type of attack.
No particular view, doesn't fuss me either way but generally I prefer the new dynamics around Urban hexes, they are not impenetrable barriers but equally not the potential weakspot in a defensive line.
No particular view, doesn't fuss me either way but generally I prefer the new dynamics around Urban hexes, they are not impenetrable barriers but equally not the potential weakspot in a defensive line.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Changes impacting combat in “high intensity” combat (combat versus defenders in heavy
urban/urban/port hexes):
o Many different combat adjustments that generally reduce losses in high intensity combat,
for both sides.
o Isolated units suffer additional penalties in high intensity combat. Units must be fully
isolated and not in aerial re-supply, not just be in isolated hexes, to suffer these additional
penalties.
o The attackers in a failed high intensity attack take no retreat attrition.
But it is a port
Слава Україні!
Glory to Ukraine!
Glory to Ukraine!
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
true - I clearly should go and read the manual.
Stand by the comment above, I really don't care. I can see the logic but the impact is very different to what happened before. In an earlier game that loss would have left me with depleted attacking formations, here I just rotated a couple of the ones with the most damaged elements. As to which is best no idea, it adds to my view that the recent patches have removed a fair bit of the friction on the Axis player but then I am truely fed up with that debate and the usual response that such an opinion triggers.
I guess this models a siege situation, where the defender tends to focus on repelling an attack rather than a more open battle where a failed attack opens, at the least at a tactical level, the door to a counter-attack.
Stand by the comment above, I really don't care. I can see the logic but the impact is very different to what happened before. In an earlier game that loss would have left me with depleted attacking formations, here I just rotated a couple of the ones with the most damaged elements. As to which is best no idea, it adds to my view that the recent patches have removed a fair bit of the friction on the Axis player but then I am truely fed up with that debate and the usual response that such an opinion triggers.
I guess this models a siege situation, where the defender tends to focus on repelling an attack rather than a more open battle where a failed attack opens, at the least at a tactical level, the door to a counter-attack.
T23-T24
T23 – 23 November 1941
Seems the Soviets were very pleased about this.
Mostly preparing the LW for winter. LB go to the reserve apart from a sustained attempt at Sevastopol. Which was just enough
Admittedly with high losses, but the LB will have the winter to recover. But the resulting attack failed (at least the fort value is coming down).
Going back to the discussion above, ignoring the time constraint this does suggest a very different approach to dealing with this sort of location. Stack up with enough artillery and pioneers and drop the fort while suffering minimal losses.
[I've added this after I wrote this at the time, but its a real change and I hadn't really appreciated it at the time as I too fussed over isolation and the coming blizzards etc)
Elsewhere not much happened as the deep snow hampered movement. AGN made some small gains along Lake Ladoga while it fell back to its chosen lines in the Valdai. AGC took Vyazma and hit back at some incautious Soviet units near Kursk and AGS did some more damage to the Soviets around Rostov.
T24 – 30 November 1941
I know to expect this but its never good news
Anyway, Sevastopol was isolated across both turns. Also most ground conditions were snow so regained some mobility. In the end a massive air commitment actually paid off (and the weather improving this week) with the early capture of the city.
Across the front, the Pzr divisions are moving to their winter homes.
In some places ended up much as I wanted. This should hold and give me some chance at Leningrad in early 1942.
Reasonably content here, 16A should be able to hold, I've gained some space at Smolensk. Vyazma will be lost but it should also slow the Soviet gains.
Well could be better, it'll improve as I redeploy 11A. If the Soviets really want Kursk back they will get it, but their supply lines will be stretched here
And this is better. Kharkiv will take a real effort to threaten, I can pull back around Rostov when it suits me and decent supply hub around Stalino. Part of my gamble here is that somewhere the Soviets need to rely on second rate formations – and the evidence so far is its here.
Crimea, the Rumanian 4A is relatively well dug in around Feodosiyia. I'll leave one corps of 11A to shore up their position but I doubt the Soviets can do much here.
VP scores. I've shed time bonus for Rzhev and Orel but both were indefensible. I can eliminate their time bonus for Rostov. Leningrad is quite the prize if I can manage it.
Seems the Soviets were very pleased about this.
Mostly preparing the LW for winter. LB go to the reserve apart from a sustained attempt at Sevastopol. Which was just enough
Admittedly with high losses, but the LB will have the winter to recover. But the resulting attack failed (at least the fort value is coming down).
Going back to the discussion above, ignoring the time constraint this does suggest a very different approach to dealing with this sort of location. Stack up with enough artillery and pioneers and drop the fort while suffering minimal losses.
[I've added this after I wrote this at the time, but its a real change and I hadn't really appreciated it at the time as I too fussed over isolation and the coming blizzards etc)
Elsewhere not much happened as the deep snow hampered movement. AGN made some small gains along Lake Ladoga while it fell back to its chosen lines in the Valdai. AGC took Vyazma and hit back at some incautious Soviet units near Kursk and AGS did some more damage to the Soviets around Rostov.
T24 – 30 November 1941
I know to expect this but its never good news
Anyway, Sevastopol was isolated across both turns. Also most ground conditions were snow so regained some mobility. In the end a massive air commitment actually paid off (and the weather improving this week) with the early capture of the city.
Across the front, the Pzr divisions are moving to their winter homes.
In some places ended up much as I wanted. This should hold and give me some chance at Leningrad in early 1942.
Reasonably content here, 16A should be able to hold, I've gained some space at Smolensk. Vyazma will be lost but it should also slow the Soviet gains.
Well could be better, it'll improve as I redeploy 11A. If the Soviets really want Kursk back they will get it, but their supply lines will be stretched here
And this is better. Kharkiv will take a real effort to threaten, I can pull back around Rostov when it suits me and decent supply hub around Stalino. Part of my gamble here is that somewhere the Soviets need to rely on second rate formations – and the evidence so far is its here.
Crimea, the Rumanian 4A is relatively well dug in around Feodosiyia. I'll leave one corps of 11A to shore up their position but I doubt the Soviets can do much here.
VP scores. I've shed time bonus for Rzhev and Orel but both were indefensible. I can eliminate their time bonus for Rostov. Leningrad is quite the prize if I can manage it.
Review and a partial Soviet report
So a good spot for some summary data and a review.
Data stuff
I started with this table, in effect looking for metrics and feedback loops. Over time I'll break the time periods around this game's dynamics but stopping just before the winter rules makes sense. I've also, for comparison, included my last HtH game's data.
Whats interesting is how close some numbers are (eg Soviet permanent losses). Some of this is fairly hard wired such as the Axis totals, the reinforcements and so on are a given so the only feasible variable is how many you lose.
A few numbers are very different. For some reason freight sent from my NSS is a lot down but I am actually supplying more to my on map formations. That is the product of this being my third Axis GC since release, a lot of reading (always study anything that Carlkay says) and a new approach to the set up in the south. I've dropped the army supply priorities to 1 and 2 for the winter – no point in demanding what I can't process. In the table I've defined a 'front line' depot as one with a red line from a combat unit.
One number really stands out. I've lost half the number of tanks as last game. Some of this is tactical, I have tended not to use the Pzr divisions for breakthrough and was cautious around Soviet armour in the opening turns. But for the second half of the summer they have been in fairly frequent combat. I think the Soviets won about 5 set piece attacks on Pzr formations and inflicted very few losses – with hindsight I was much too cautious in this regard.
So that is the impact of the recent patches – and gameplay approach. And I think will make a real difference in 1942 and onwards.
So even the weakest Pzr division has 60% TOE. Their relatively limited amount of combat is shown by the low win numbers.
Another metric is the state of my infantry divisions. In the end these are the backbone of the army so this shows their condition for T24, compared to notional TOE (a rough and ready summary for the Germans), how many infantry elements are in them (which determines their staying power) and the median morale compared to NM. The Rumanians are a little over as they have generally had a good year – so far few defeats but either en-masse or bracketed with German formations they have won a lot of victories. The Hungarian units are all specialists so excluded here and the Italians misleading as there are only 2 to study.
Strategy stuff
Can't claim to have had an innovative plan that would have given a massive early win (or a massive early loss). I stick to my view that the target points are late 42 or the end 1944 HWM.
What I did was to reinforce AGN and hide this by not moving any corps. From our discussions this misled my opponent for a couple of turns till he realised just how much was pressing on the Luga line. So he had time to generate a defense in depth but steadily lost ground. All in all I think that paid off, if I can keep Leningrad isolated I think its there for the taking in late winter/spring.
The other bit was to send a couple of mot/pzr divisions to AGS. I know the argument that the Soviets should just run in the south but I had an eye on VP time points. I have 51/58 (Lvov can only give 4 at the best) which goes someway to compensate for being slower for AGC (& losing Rzhev and Orel).
In my last game, I found the Ukraine easy to defend in 1943. Its the one period when German tanks have technical superiority and the clear terrain give scope for powerful counter-attacks. Or in other words, I can come out ahead on the time exchange (to put it in context, if I hold Rostov till T26 then the Soviets can only gain +52 for the balance of those cities).
All of which has cost me for AGC. I never looked for Moscow but just kept up enough pressure to attract a serious Soviet response. Judging by the number of counter-attacks and the location of their better commanders that is what happened.
T24 – A Soviet view
This may put some of the posts so far into context. At the start, I decided Moscow #1, Leningrad #2, everything else. One of the first things I did was to draw all the high experience formations that start in SW Front, plus the high TOE commands and pull these to the Smolensk sector. The core of this was Malinovski's 5A that has been mentioned several times. Once it was clear that Moscow was not the Axis target, I created several other core armies with good leaders and as much SU as I could spare (30A, 28A, 24A) and used these for army sized counter-blows. The intent was to force even more German caution and, of course, to build Gds formations.
In the air I kept on using the VVS, even for GS in the axis turn. High losses for both sides but by the end of the year was slowly recovering.
Sent all the low TOE Army commands to the reserve to refit, this left me short at a few stages but cleared out that problem by late September. Initially linked best commanders with the few high TOE formations.
The attached table shows all inf, tank and cavalry formations with more than 1 win. Two are already Gds and more will convert in the next few turns – or will with more wins. Once I have the basis for the two Gds Rifle Corps, I'll just build up wins across the army.
I did replace most of what was taken from the Ukraine but with standard exp/morale formations so could mostly retain some sort of defense line – usually enough to cost the Axis MP. Clearly in terms of VP bonus pts this has worked against the Soviets but the compensation is holding/retaking cities on the central sector.
The Axis lunge at Leningrad was unexpected but was detected soon enough to slow it down. As with the Axis reports, I expect a crisis here in February so ideally need to regain a land connection. Freight is already in short supply in the city but I need to allocate more formations into the city area and try to build up for an offensive by what will be Volkhov Front.
Losing Sevastopol when it seemed it would hold was painful and I think will give the Axis more flexibility than otherwise.
Current layout of the Fronts is as expected, all just within their command capacity and 2 on assault status – will gain some CC in 1942 but for the moment the CPP gain is valuable. For the winter, Leningrad, Kursk and Gds are the focus, have no expectation of inflicting serious damage.
This shows the rough layout of the army,
Data stuff
I started with this table, in effect looking for metrics and feedback loops. Over time I'll break the time periods around this game's dynamics but stopping just before the winter rules makes sense. I've also, for comparison, included my last HtH game's data.
Whats interesting is how close some numbers are (eg Soviet permanent losses). Some of this is fairly hard wired such as the Axis totals, the reinforcements and so on are a given so the only feasible variable is how many you lose.
A few numbers are very different. For some reason freight sent from my NSS is a lot down but I am actually supplying more to my on map formations. That is the product of this being my third Axis GC since release, a lot of reading (always study anything that Carlkay says) and a new approach to the set up in the south. I've dropped the army supply priorities to 1 and 2 for the winter – no point in demanding what I can't process. In the table I've defined a 'front line' depot as one with a red line from a combat unit.
One number really stands out. I've lost half the number of tanks as last game. Some of this is tactical, I have tended not to use the Pzr divisions for breakthrough and was cautious around Soviet armour in the opening turns. But for the second half of the summer they have been in fairly frequent combat. I think the Soviets won about 5 set piece attacks on Pzr formations and inflicted very few losses – with hindsight I was much too cautious in this regard.
So that is the impact of the recent patches – and gameplay approach. And I think will make a real difference in 1942 and onwards.
So even the weakest Pzr division has 60% TOE. Their relatively limited amount of combat is shown by the low win numbers.
Another metric is the state of my infantry divisions. In the end these are the backbone of the army so this shows their condition for T24, compared to notional TOE (a rough and ready summary for the Germans), how many infantry elements are in them (which determines their staying power) and the median morale compared to NM. The Rumanians are a little over as they have generally had a good year – so far few defeats but either en-masse or bracketed with German formations they have won a lot of victories. The Hungarian units are all specialists so excluded here and the Italians misleading as there are only 2 to study.
Strategy stuff
Can't claim to have had an innovative plan that would have given a massive early win (or a massive early loss). I stick to my view that the target points are late 42 or the end 1944 HWM.
What I did was to reinforce AGN and hide this by not moving any corps. From our discussions this misled my opponent for a couple of turns till he realised just how much was pressing on the Luga line. So he had time to generate a defense in depth but steadily lost ground. All in all I think that paid off, if I can keep Leningrad isolated I think its there for the taking in late winter/spring.
The other bit was to send a couple of mot/pzr divisions to AGS. I know the argument that the Soviets should just run in the south but I had an eye on VP time points. I have 51/58 (Lvov can only give 4 at the best) which goes someway to compensate for being slower for AGC (& losing Rzhev and Orel).
In my last game, I found the Ukraine easy to defend in 1943. Its the one period when German tanks have technical superiority and the clear terrain give scope for powerful counter-attacks. Or in other words, I can come out ahead on the time exchange (to put it in context, if I hold Rostov till T26 then the Soviets can only gain +52 for the balance of those cities).
All of which has cost me for AGC. I never looked for Moscow but just kept up enough pressure to attract a serious Soviet response. Judging by the number of counter-attacks and the location of their better commanders that is what happened.
T24 – A Soviet view
This may put some of the posts so far into context. At the start, I decided Moscow #1, Leningrad #2, everything else. One of the first things I did was to draw all the high experience formations that start in SW Front, plus the high TOE commands and pull these to the Smolensk sector. The core of this was Malinovski's 5A that has been mentioned several times. Once it was clear that Moscow was not the Axis target, I created several other core armies with good leaders and as much SU as I could spare (30A, 28A, 24A) and used these for army sized counter-blows. The intent was to force even more German caution and, of course, to build Gds formations.
In the air I kept on using the VVS, even for GS in the axis turn. High losses for both sides but by the end of the year was slowly recovering.
Sent all the low TOE Army commands to the reserve to refit, this left me short at a few stages but cleared out that problem by late September. Initially linked best commanders with the few high TOE formations.
The attached table shows all inf, tank and cavalry formations with more than 1 win. Two are already Gds and more will convert in the next few turns – or will with more wins. Once I have the basis for the two Gds Rifle Corps, I'll just build up wins across the army.
I did replace most of what was taken from the Ukraine but with standard exp/morale formations so could mostly retain some sort of defense line – usually enough to cost the Axis MP. Clearly in terms of VP bonus pts this has worked against the Soviets but the compensation is holding/retaking cities on the central sector.
The Axis lunge at Leningrad was unexpected but was detected soon enough to slow it down. As with the Axis reports, I expect a crisis here in February so ideally need to regain a land connection. Freight is already in short supply in the city but I need to allocate more formations into the city area and try to build up for an offensive by what will be Volkhov Front.
Losing Sevastopol when it seemed it would hold was painful and I think will give the Axis more flexibility than otherwise.
Current layout of the Fronts is as expected, all just within their command capacity and 2 on assault status – will gain some CC in 1942 but for the moment the CPP gain is valuable. For the winter, Leningrad, Kursk and Gds are the focus, have no expectation of inflicting serious damage.
This shows the rough layout of the army,
T25-26 - lets start winter
T25 – 7 December 1941
A bit of a non-event. Snowfall, so just snow on the ground across the map. The result is high mobility which helped for final redeployments, some more rail links repaired and took the chance to hit some of the more adventurous Soviet formations.
No change to the map, but the loss ratio was pleasant reading.
And so does next turn's weather report
I maybe should stop complaining about the very wet October.
T26 – 14 December 1941
Some Soviet pressure around Vyazma but most of their attacks failed. After my small series of attacks last turn near Kursk, they are keeping out of contact on that sector. If it remains like this till March 1942 I'll have nothing to complain about.
Perhaps the most important piece of information is next turn's weather chart. Its borderline but over most of the front I might manage a third week of snowfall. If so I escape the worst of the December effects.
AGC is managing to hold its line with some ease. Some small Soviet gains but equally several successful counter-attacks. The weather makes it easier to hit back at over-extended Soviet formations and prevent them building up much pressure on Vyazma.
A similar pattern across much of the front, where Soviet units that advance to contact are often easily driven back.
In this respect, elements of 1PG managed to destroy the bulk of a previously undetected Soviet 51A in fighting around Voroshilovgrad.
I've secured my first goal here, there are no time points left for the Soviets at Rostov. The degree of Soviet pressure will determine my next choice but clearly this is a good position for a southern 1942 strategy.
Given the relatively static nature of the turn, quite a lot of Soviet losses. The retreat/rout ratio is high as the 45NM bites.
Have pulled all the armour SU to the reserve, and the Pzr divisions are in fort #2 or urban hexes.
Less jolly news as the Soviets approach 5m, really not much I can do to affect this.
The armour situation reflects recent redeployments but I'm looking at a very powerful force for 1942.
In part to avoid needless attrition, in part as repurposing 11A, I have a lot of SU back in OKH, this excludes the purely construction units.
The good news is that is a one off, as they have used up all their manpower allocation and are back on relying on per turn allocations (and reinforcements).
In turn, I've built up a large manpower pool, so should be able to recover from the winter – especially if it never actually happens.
Overall supply map. That is the best I've managed for this stage, almost no long traces for AGN or AGC, AGS is over-extended. But I can deal with that either by more repairs or simply giving up space.
A bit of a non-event. Snowfall, so just snow on the ground across the map. The result is high mobility which helped for final redeployments, some more rail links repaired and took the chance to hit some of the more adventurous Soviet formations.
No change to the map, but the loss ratio was pleasant reading.
And so does next turn's weather report
I maybe should stop complaining about the very wet October.
T26 – 14 December 1941
Some Soviet pressure around Vyazma but most of their attacks failed. After my small series of attacks last turn near Kursk, they are keeping out of contact on that sector. If it remains like this till March 1942 I'll have nothing to complain about.
Perhaps the most important piece of information is next turn's weather chart. Its borderline but over most of the front I might manage a third week of snowfall. If so I escape the worst of the December effects.
AGC is managing to hold its line with some ease. Some small Soviet gains but equally several successful counter-attacks. The weather makes it easier to hit back at over-extended Soviet formations and prevent them building up much pressure on Vyazma.
A similar pattern across much of the front, where Soviet units that advance to contact are often easily driven back.
In this respect, elements of 1PG managed to destroy the bulk of a previously undetected Soviet 51A in fighting around Voroshilovgrad.
I've secured my first goal here, there are no time points left for the Soviets at Rostov. The degree of Soviet pressure will determine my next choice but clearly this is a good position for a southern 1942 strategy.
Given the relatively static nature of the turn, quite a lot of Soviet losses. The retreat/rout ratio is high as the 45NM bites.
Have pulled all the armour SU to the reserve, and the Pzr divisions are in fort #2 or urban hexes.
Less jolly news as the Soviets approach 5m, really not much I can do to affect this.
The armour situation reflects recent redeployments but I'm looking at a very powerful force for 1942.
In part to avoid needless attrition, in part as repurposing 11A, I have a lot of SU back in OKH, this excludes the purely construction units.
The good news is that is a one off, as they have used up all their manpower allocation and are back on relying on per turn allocations (and reinforcements).
In turn, I've built up a large manpower pool, so should be able to recover from the winter – especially if it never actually happens.
Overall supply map. That is the best I've managed for this stage, almost no long traces for AGN or AGC, AGS is over-extended. But I can deal with that either by more repairs or simply giving up space.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Your AAR detail is great first off, really informative.
Holy hell your supply lines to the front, and your at Rostov. Kursk and Kharkov, impressive.
I cant even come close to even against the AI.
42 Objectives ?
North and centre hoping for a quick victory ?
The idea of quick victory is appealing since the Germans never captured Moscow, so I get why the vast majority of players strike at the centre, and i wont look a gift horse in the mouth.
But the oilfields appeal more to me than even Stalingrad, I would rather destroy all opposition South of the city first, control the oil and be free to move north knowing nothing is going to come behind you.
Defeating the mountains, something the Germans had trouble doing.
love to be able to link up with the Afrika Korps in a Grand Campaign one day.
Holy hell your supply lines to the front, and your at Rostov. Kursk and Kharkov, impressive.
I cant even come close to even against the AI.
42 Objectives ?
North and centre hoping for a quick victory ?
The idea of quick victory is appealing since the Germans never captured Moscow, so I get why the vast majority of players strike at the centre, and i wont look a gift horse in the mouth.
But the oilfields appeal more to me than even Stalingrad, I would rather destroy all opposition South of the city first, control the oil and be free to move north knowing nothing is going to come behind you.
Defeating the mountains, something the Germans had trouble doing.
love to be able to link up with the Afrika Korps in a Grand Campaign one day.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Thanks, want to give as much contextual info as I can - we're running this a fair bit behind so I can be relatively open
Logistics - in the end I was impressed with how it came together, I traded off depth for breadth at a few stages which caused some problems but that (without too many spoilers) in the north really ended any chance of them making real gains, but even the relatively poor position around Rostov came back to hit me hard. Which does reinforce my basic mindset that its the logistics set up that determines how the axis cope with the first winter. I just left the auto repair to do their own thing, in the end they've done all the secondary dual rails for me which really helps as I have some extra W-E capacity coming out of Poland.
I've not yet really decided on 1942. In a way I'm very committed at Leningrad, it ends up with the bulk of my best units and now its a case of how the weather plays out. At some stage before the summer I need to stick with it or simply revert to a siege. If an entire first rate army is bogged down there then I'm not going to make much gain elsewhere.
If I go for the chance of an auto-win, the Moscow sector is really appealing but if its a case of setting a high HWM for the start of 1945 then realistically it has to be the south - not just for my VP but to have some option to remove Soviet time pts too. If - and its unlikely - I bank Leningrad and Stalingrad, that probably puts the HWM test as the Soviets having to get into the Reich by early 45, I'll settle for them having to reach into Poland.
Logistics - in the end I was impressed with how it came together, I traded off depth for breadth at a few stages which caused some problems but that (without too many spoilers) in the north really ended any chance of them making real gains, but even the relatively poor position around Rostov came back to hit me hard. Which does reinforce my basic mindset that its the logistics set up that determines how the axis cope with the first winter. I just left the auto repair to do their own thing, in the end they've done all the secondary dual rails for me which really helps as I have some extra W-E capacity coming out of Poland.
I've not yet really decided on 1942. In a way I'm very committed at Leningrad, it ends up with the bulk of my best units and now its a case of how the weather plays out. At some stage before the summer I need to stick with it or simply revert to a siege. If an entire first rate army is bogged down there then I'm not going to make much gain elsewhere.
If I go for the chance of an auto-win, the Moscow sector is really appealing but if its a case of setting a high HWM for the start of 1945 then realistically it has to be the south - not just for my VP but to have some option to remove Soviet time pts too. If - and its unlikely - I bank Leningrad and Stalingrad, that probably puts the HWM test as the Soviets having to get into the Reich by early 45, I'll settle for them having to reach into Poland.
T27
T27 – 21 December 1941
Blizzard conditions on two sectors – Leningrad and in the Donets region. So Soviet attacks, and signs of them moving to contact, on both but with mixed results.
The resulting loss of Rostov answered my questions about what to do with the Donets bend. Its the one sector with stretched logistics and there is no real gain to clinging on to the eastern edge.
Lost a VP for Norway but have recently gained 2 for Italy and Western Europe. I'll see if there is anything I feel I can spare to send there.
Weather forecast suggests that the central sector might escape the full blizzards but I think its more likely to hit across the front.
AGN
The Soviet offensive here was broken into two distinct parts. Their 21 and 27 Armies tried to breach the German lines on Lake Ladoga but failed badly.
However, they did manage to make some gains around Novgorod.
AGC
Usual pattern of Soviet attempts to constrict the axis line of communication to Vyazma and localised German counter-attacks to push them back.
Of more concern at the moment is the slowly building pressure south of Yelnya, where it seems as if the Soviets have a brand new type of formation.
AGS
Most of the front remained quiet but the loss of Rostov triggered a general retreat from the Donets bend.
In addition there were a series of attacks by the Soviets on the northern sector indicating the risk of a wider encirclement.
Overall losses not too bad – but clearly I am avoiding most attrition.
In addition, with most of the front being snow, I'm able to repair more of the rear area network, If I really have to fall back anywhere I can do so towards depots.
Blizzard conditions on two sectors – Leningrad and in the Donets region. So Soviet attacks, and signs of them moving to contact, on both but with mixed results.
The resulting loss of Rostov answered my questions about what to do with the Donets bend. Its the one sector with stretched logistics and there is no real gain to clinging on to the eastern edge.
Lost a VP for Norway but have recently gained 2 for Italy and Western Europe. I'll see if there is anything I feel I can spare to send there.
Weather forecast suggests that the central sector might escape the full blizzards but I think its more likely to hit across the front.
AGN
The Soviet offensive here was broken into two distinct parts. Their 21 and 27 Armies tried to breach the German lines on Lake Ladoga but failed badly.
However, they did manage to make some gains around Novgorod.
AGC
Usual pattern of Soviet attempts to constrict the axis line of communication to Vyazma and localised German counter-attacks to push them back.
Of more concern at the moment is the slowly building pressure south of Yelnya, where it seems as if the Soviets have a brand new type of formation.
AGS
Most of the front remained quiet but the loss of Rostov triggered a general retreat from the Donets bend.
In addition there were a series of attacks by the Soviets on the northern sector indicating the risk of a wider encirclement.
Overall losses not too bad – but clearly I am avoiding most attrition.
In addition, with most of the front being snow, I'm able to repair more of the rear area network, If I really have to fall back anywhere I can do so towards depots.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Nice to see Slovaks in Rostov as the division was there, though in summer 42. 
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
I really like that Slovak mot division, its so useful
actually Rostov was a bit of a comedy of errors for us both, He didn't think I could take it earlier on and I didn't bother to properly defend it as I assumed the major river gave me sufficient protection. Always fun to trade silly mistakes ...
actually Rostov was a bit of a comedy of errors for us both, He didn't think I could take it earlier on and I didn't bother to properly defend it as I assumed the major river gave me sufficient protection. Always fun to trade silly mistakes ...
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Killmaster851
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Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Are these your actual defenses or are you editing things out?
Kenny
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Not sure what you mean?
the images are composites, so (I think) show what a Soviet player would see, so yes I have more units that are not being displayed
the images are composites, so (I think) show what a Soviet player would see, so yes I have more units that are not being displayed
T28 - the blizzards arrive
T28 – 28 December 1941
So, finally, blizzards across the front – and a Soviet offensive to go with it.
AGN
The newly designated 4SA and 27A again attacked in force along Lake Ladoga only to be driven off with heavy losses. Elsewhere the Soviets failed to break the German lines along the Volkhov except near Chudovo but their attempt to exploit was quickly beaten back (albeit at the cost of the commitment of a Pzr division),
In addition to creating a strong defensive line, my goal is a significant rotation of the formations here. But that will take quite a few turns given rail capacity, distance and the demands of other sectors.
AGC
The Soviets seemed to have abandoned trying to retake Vyazma directly and shifted to the sector held by XXXXII Corps. The first echelon was driven off with heavy losses but the Soviet 24A followed up driving back the defenders.
To the south, most of the Soviet attempts indicated a goal of encircling Bryansk or to pin the German reserves here.
Perhaps not surprisingly, Kursk was the focus of their renewed offensive.
The previously undetected 1SA, combined with their 20 and 40 Armies struck the German lines NW of the city and drove to the outskirts of the city before being stopped. So far there was no sustained attempt at a wider envelopment but even dealing with a Front sized direct assault will be a challenge – and call in some of the limited reserves.
There was no renewal of their attacks at Kharkiv and the German retreat from the Donets bend also broke contact between the two armies.
Manpower losses went up, but still keeping tank losses low. If I don't need to use all the replacement battalions for immediate use in March then they will be a very valuable resource to keep the Pzrs up to strength in the summer.
On the other hand, the Soviets approach 5m men. Seems like both sides are resting most of their airforce. The on-map tank ratio is 1-1.
Despite their on map strength, they can't really sustain an attritional offensive – and so far even where they win its costing them a lot to break my lines. Key is whether they can chain these wins together to hit the same sector multiple times. So far the evidence is that only a few, well led, formations are really capable of effective offensive operations.
Linked to the tank discussion, for some elements I am not immediately using up the production. Its not a lot but allied to low losses suggests considerable sustained combat power for 1942.
Wider issue, I am still doing a lot of opportunistic attacks where the Soviets move into contact. A few of these fail due to the blizzard rules but I'm mostly gaining one sided wins. Main reason is the ratio of retreat/rout remains high for the Soviets and its not just the losses but this drives them towards their 45 NM. More I can force them to that value (plus the 41c Rifle Division TOE) the harder it is for them to sustain a series of attacks.
In effect, that then means less Gds (I think from unit designations they have 5 or 6 Gds Rifle formations) and thus a much more vulnerable army come Spring 1942.
So, finally, blizzards across the front – and a Soviet offensive to go with it.
AGN
The newly designated 4SA and 27A again attacked in force along Lake Ladoga only to be driven off with heavy losses. Elsewhere the Soviets failed to break the German lines along the Volkhov except near Chudovo but their attempt to exploit was quickly beaten back (albeit at the cost of the commitment of a Pzr division),
In addition to creating a strong defensive line, my goal is a significant rotation of the formations here. But that will take quite a few turns given rail capacity, distance and the demands of other sectors.
AGC
The Soviets seemed to have abandoned trying to retake Vyazma directly and shifted to the sector held by XXXXII Corps. The first echelon was driven off with heavy losses but the Soviet 24A followed up driving back the defenders.
To the south, most of the Soviet attempts indicated a goal of encircling Bryansk or to pin the German reserves here.
Perhaps not surprisingly, Kursk was the focus of their renewed offensive.
The previously undetected 1SA, combined with their 20 and 40 Armies struck the German lines NW of the city and drove to the outskirts of the city before being stopped. So far there was no sustained attempt at a wider envelopment but even dealing with a Front sized direct assault will be a challenge – and call in some of the limited reserves.
There was no renewal of their attacks at Kharkiv and the German retreat from the Donets bend also broke contact between the two armies.
Manpower losses went up, but still keeping tank losses low. If I don't need to use all the replacement battalions for immediate use in March then they will be a very valuable resource to keep the Pzrs up to strength in the summer.
On the other hand, the Soviets approach 5m men. Seems like both sides are resting most of their airforce. The on-map tank ratio is 1-1.
Despite their on map strength, they can't really sustain an attritional offensive – and so far even where they win its costing them a lot to break my lines. Key is whether they can chain these wins together to hit the same sector multiple times. So far the evidence is that only a few, well led, formations are really capable of effective offensive operations.
Linked to the tank discussion, for some elements I am not immediately using up the production. Its not a lot but allied to low losses suggests considerable sustained combat power for 1942.
Wider issue, I am still doing a lot of opportunistic attacks where the Soviets move into contact. A few of these fail due to the blizzard rules but I'm mostly gaining one sided wins. Main reason is the ratio of retreat/rout remains high for the Soviets and its not just the losses but this drives them towards their 45 NM. More I can force them to that value (plus the 41c Rifle Division TOE) the harder it is for them to sustain a series of attacks.
In effect, that then means less Gds (I think from unit designations they have 5 or 6 Gds Rifle formations) and thus a much more vulnerable army come Spring 1942.
T29 - goodbye 1941
T29 – 4 January 1942
So, predictably, crisis points all over the map but especially for the southern portion of AGC.
Blizzards and heavy snow everywhere, looks like the same next turn and then it might improve.
AGN
Given the importance of Leningrad in my plans there is no way can I risk being driven in here. The arrival of reinforcements from the Crimea should be enough to secure the defensive set up and further formations (some intended to release the Pzrs for elsewhere) should enable a renewal of the offensive. The prize of permanently releasing the best part of 2 armies is too much.
The Soviets seem to share this analysis.
This gives me some re-assurance for my basic idea that the Soviets only have a few formations capable of breaking a well defended line.
AGC
Although the immediate Soviet attacks failed, Vyazma was abandoned to avoid any risk of encirclement and to free up units to push to the southern part of the army group.
The first crisis was on the Yelnya-Bryansk sector, in the end I can give ground here but want to use my decent fortified line as long as possible.
It looks like almost all their Gds formations are linked to the 5A which steadily dismantles my 2A's front line. To the south the Soviet 4 and 30 Armies launched massive attacks to breach the main defensive line.
The Soviet offensive at Kursk gained momentum. Their main assault armies again cleared the German defensive line, at heavy losses
But this time elements of their 34A managed to exploit cutting the rail links to Kursk. Reinforcements are on the way here but may be too late to save the city. As with Leningrad I'm really committed here, I can't simply let another -6 on the time bonus pts slip away or I'll need to revise my entire VP strategy for the mid-game.
AGS
AGS paid the price for over-extension at Rostov. Here the threat wasn't really the combat power of the Soviet formations but the risk of encirclement and the need for a structured retreat while the Soviets looked to exploit the gaps.
Losses remain fairly steady for both sides.
Soviet totals are up a little but clearly a lot are being sent to the map.
So, predictably, crisis points all over the map but especially for the southern portion of AGC.
Blizzards and heavy snow everywhere, looks like the same next turn and then it might improve.
AGN
Given the importance of Leningrad in my plans there is no way can I risk being driven in here. The arrival of reinforcements from the Crimea should be enough to secure the defensive set up and further formations (some intended to release the Pzrs for elsewhere) should enable a renewal of the offensive. The prize of permanently releasing the best part of 2 armies is too much.
The Soviets seem to share this analysis.
This gives me some re-assurance for my basic idea that the Soviets only have a few formations capable of breaking a well defended line.
AGC
Although the immediate Soviet attacks failed, Vyazma was abandoned to avoid any risk of encirclement and to free up units to push to the southern part of the army group.
The first crisis was on the Yelnya-Bryansk sector, in the end I can give ground here but want to use my decent fortified line as long as possible.
It looks like almost all their Gds formations are linked to the 5A which steadily dismantles my 2A's front line. To the south the Soviet 4 and 30 Armies launched massive attacks to breach the main defensive line.
The Soviet offensive at Kursk gained momentum. Their main assault armies again cleared the German defensive line, at heavy losses
But this time elements of their 34A managed to exploit cutting the rail links to Kursk. Reinforcements are on the way here but may be too late to save the city. As with Leningrad I'm really committed here, I can't simply let another -6 on the time bonus pts slip away or I'll need to revise my entire VP strategy for the mid-game.
AGS
AGS paid the price for over-extension at Rostov. Here the threat wasn't really the combat power of the Soviet formations but the risk of encirclement and the need for a structured retreat while the Soviets looked to exploit the gaps.
Losses remain fairly steady for both sides.
Soviet totals are up a little but clearly a lot are being sent to the map.
T30 - lots of snow falls
T30 – 11 January 1942
Another turn of blizzard/snow but the forecast for next week is much better, just blizzards around Leningrad. Usual sequence of crises but only one attack aimed at AGN which failed badly.
The process of swapping assets with AGC/S in preparation for the offensive at Leningrad starts to release some Pzrs to deal with the most dangerous Soviet attacks.
In several places committed the Pzr divisions to deal with breakthroughs but weather and ground conditions led to complete failures. Really have to avoid this if I can.
Some fighting west of Vyazma as 9A fell back and on 2A sector but the main Soviet effort was around Kursk. Last week's counterattacks seemed to have relieved the direct pressure on the city but to the flanks sustained efforts.
In the Donets region, AGS' retreat was becoming chaotic with little attention being paid to army or corps structure. The failure to drive in a Soviet breakthrough along the Donets threatened to force a retreat all the way back to the Dnipro.
In the Crimea, 31A launched a series of attacks and expanded its bridgehead around Feodosyia.
The lack of successful counter-attacks led to relatively even losses (the high captures came from the Rumanian 4A in the Crimea).
Predictably, the logistics network is falling apart.
Another turn of blizzard/snow but the forecast for next week is much better, just blizzards around Leningrad. Usual sequence of crises but only one attack aimed at AGN which failed badly.
The process of swapping assets with AGC/S in preparation for the offensive at Leningrad starts to release some Pzrs to deal with the most dangerous Soviet attacks.
In several places committed the Pzr divisions to deal with breakthroughs but weather and ground conditions led to complete failures. Really have to avoid this if I can.
Some fighting west of Vyazma as 9A fell back and on 2A sector but the main Soviet effort was around Kursk. Last week's counterattacks seemed to have relieved the direct pressure on the city but to the flanks sustained efforts.
In the Donets region, AGS' retreat was becoming chaotic with little attention being paid to army or corps structure. The failure to drive in a Soviet breakthrough along the Donets threatened to force a retreat all the way back to the Dnipro.
In the Crimea, 31A launched a series of attacks and expanded its bridgehead around Feodosyia.
The lack of successful counter-attacks led to relatively even losses (the high captures came from the Rumanian 4A in the Crimea).
Predictably, the logistics network is falling apart.
T31 (spring arrives ... not really)
T31 – 18 January 1942
As hoped for, this turn saw blizzards only around Leningrad, and the forecast is for similar next turn.
If anything it may be better with clear skies. If that sees the snow levels reduce then that will really help both my mobility and the secondary impact on attrition and resupply problems.
Mix of situations across the front.
AGN
Single (failed) Soviet attack at Leningrad gives me some hope that their attempt to relieve the city has already run out of steam. On my side AGN has been substantially reconfigured, losing its Pzrs to AGC but taking on a number of assault infantry formations. Specialist SU are now being allocated.
Need to wait for the malus on my cv to drop and for the weather to improve enough to justfy an air campaign to break the communication routes across Lake Ladoga.
AGC
Heavy Soviet pressure indicating they are still trying to regain Smolensk-Bryansk. This time they sought to exploit wins and bypass strong points. Mostly in doing so they ran into well prepared defensive positions and in easy reach of the Pzr divisions. I tried this layout in my last game and it seems as effective as a solid line - as long as you have strong backing forces. Not least a defeat can easily take out 30% of the Soviet formation.
At Kursk, heavy losses at the start of their offensive and the desperate German counter-attacks seemed to have stalled the Soviet offensive. Reinforcements scraped together from across the front were finally arriving but the city was still almost cut off with very vulnerable supply lines.
AGS
The ongoing problem here was the chaotic retreat from Rostov. This had seriously weakened almost all the formations on this sector with the situation being partially saved by counter-attacks to force back encircling Soviet formations (that in turn further weaken my formations).
The front in the Crimea stabilised as both sides tried to reorganise their front lines.
Ground losses. More for the Soviets as even their wins come at a high cost. Some of the routs saw units almost wiped out.
Unusually active turn in the air with the better flying conditions
Soviet manpower reserves not really growing, think their regular losses are sufficient that they can only draw down a week's production (but also assume there is a lot of refitting etc going on).
German reserve manpower high but that is a lot of the current attrition losses. Key is to regain it for the combat formations.
As hoped for, this turn saw blizzards only around Leningrad, and the forecast is for similar next turn.
If anything it may be better with clear skies. If that sees the snow levels reduce then that will really help both my mobility and the secondary impact on attrition and resupply problems.
Mix of situations across the front.
AGN
Single (failed) Soviet attack at Leningrad gives me some hope that their attempt to relieve the city has already run out of steam. On my side AGN has been substantially reconfigured, losing its Pzrs to AGC but taking on a number of assault infantry formations. Specialist SU are now being allocated.
Need to wait for the malus on my cv to drop and for the weather to improve enough to justfy an air campaign to break the communication routes across Lake Ladoga.
AGC
Heavy Soviet pressure indicating they are still trying to regain Smolensk-Bryansk. This time they sought to exploit wins and bypass strong points. Mostly in doing so they ran into well prepared defensive positions and in easy reach of the Pzr divisions. I tried this layout in my last game and it seems as effective as a solid line - as long as you have strong backing forces. Not least a defeat can easily take out 30% of the Soviet formation.
At Kursk, heavy losses at the start of their offensive and the desperate German counter-attacks seemed to have stalled the Soviet offensive. Reinforcements scraped together from across the front were finally arriving but the city was still almost cut off with very vulnerable supply lines.
AGS
The ongoing problem here was the chaotic retreat from Rostov. This had seriously weakened almost all the formations on this sector with the situation being partially saved by counter-attacks to force back encircling Soviet formations (that in turn further weaken my formations).
The front in the Crimea stabilised as both sides tried to reorganise their front lines.
Ground losses. More for the Soviets as even their wins come at a high cost. Some of the routs saw units almost wiped out.
Unusually active turn in the air with the better flying conditions
Soviet manpower reserves not really growing, think their regular losses are sufficient that they can only draw down a week's production (but also assume there is a lot of refitting etc going on).
German reserve manpower high but that is a lot of the current attrition losses. Key is to regain it for the combat formations.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
Looking at the Smolensk / Roslavi sector the Russian 5th and 28th Armies have a inviting salient there.
4 Guards and a Tank Div plus a number of other regular Divs, with that gap North and the single Russian 55 Div South, had you just a couple more mobile units either end and the weather better, I would be game enough to launch a lighting counterattack which could trap 14 Red Army units, of course that's against the AI, a human opponent may not be so accommodating and allow such a move.
In most of my games back in WITE 1 days I would attach 60th Motorised Div when it arrives to 2nd Armee then 1 or 2 Pz Div's as time goes by also creating a ad-hoc Pz Armee out of 2nd Armee, I would then tuck the Armee in between 2nd Pz Armee and 4th Armee for just such a opportunity like this.
Ad a mobile 78th Inf Div ( attach Pz Bat ) from 4th Armee ( which see you have as the lynch pin of your defence facing 7 Red Divs ) and you could really go to town.
Nothing more pleasurable than trapping Guards and Tank units and wiping them out.
4 Guards and a Tank Div plus a number of other regular Divs, with that gap North and the single Russian 55 Div South, had you just a couple more mobile units either end and the weather better, I would be game enough to launch a lighting counterattack which could trap 14 Red Army units, of course that's against the AI, a human opponent may not be so accommodating and allow such a move.
In most of my games back in WITE 1 days I would attach 60th Motorised Div when it arrives to 2nd Armee then 1 or 2 Pz Div's as time goes by also creating a ad-hoc Pz Armee out of 2nd Armee, I would then tuck the Armee in between 2nd Pz Armee and 4th Armee for just such a opportunity like this.
Ad a mobile 78th Inf Div ( attach Pz Bat ) from 4th Armee ( which see you have as the lynch pin of your defence facing 7 Red Divs ) and you could really go to town.
Nothing more pleasurable than trapping Guards and Tank units and wiping them out.
Re: Grunhilde gets antsy - 1941 GC
At this stage he could be flashing his ankles and lounging in a chair reading (according to the Victorians signs that a man is being tempted {there are people near where I live with the same social attitudes today}) and I'd sit in my cities. I'm happy to use the Pzrs to give him a bloody nose every time he tries to exploit - or even less acceptable, infiltrate - but trying to conserve them. From some previous mistakes, you can have a lot of mobility in a snow turn that puts you into high attrition when it flips back to deep snow.
Having said that, I am keeping an eye out for opportunities come Feb, by that time the bulk of the winter malus lifts and you can rely a bit more on snow turns being sustained.
More generally at this stage, this is the cost for my late lunge at Sevastopol. Like a few decisions I've made its cost me in the short term even if it pays off over time. In this case I wanted to get 1 corps of 11A up to Leningrad and then I could release the Pzrs and another to Kursk to give me a solid line. My hope was that once I solidified things at Kursk, then there was scope to hit back when I could pocket - as you say encircling Gds formations is good for the morale.
Judging by the combat results and email comments he basically has 2 good armies (5 and 24) that can win most battles if they start with 2-1 or better - but even so can take 1,500-3,000 losses in the win. The rest he's reported a lot of battles where the opening odds were up around 3-1 that collapsed to below 2-1 (sometimes less than 1-1) so he's at risk of either creating a very dangerous salient or running out of local targets for his better stuff.
From checking the combat reports, its clear he's using the core of Gds to generate a win and rotating the non-Gds formations presumably looking for later promotions. My game against Steven really made the point of how important the cadre of Gds are in 1942, not only can they actually stand up to an attack but they are pretty much the only counter-attacking tool till the Tank Corps start to improve their cv.
My fundamental goal is to make the most of the much larger Pzr force. My losses are still around 50% of the last game and that means, potentially, a lot of hitting power come the late spring
Having said that, I am keeping an eye out for opportunities come Feb, by that time the bulk of the winter malus lifts and you can rely a bit more on snow turns being sustained.
More generally at this stage, this is the cost for my late lunge at Sevastopol. Like a few decisions I've made its cost me in the short term even if it pays off over time. In this case I wanted to get 1 corps of 11A up to Leningrad and then I could release the Pzrs and another to Kursk to give me a solid line. My hope was that once I solidified things at Kursk, then there was scope to hit back when I could pocket - as you say encircling Gds formations is good for the morale.
Judging by the combat results and email comments he basically has 2 good armies (5 and 24) that can win most battles if they start with 2-1 or better - but even so can take 1,500-3,000 losses in the win. The rest he's reported a lot of battles where the opening odds were up around 3-1 that collapsed to below 2-1 (sometimes less than 1-1) so he's at risk of either creating a very dangerous salient or running out of local targets for his better stuff.
From checking the combat reports, its clear he's using the core of Gds to generate a win and rotating the non-Gds formations presumably looking for later promotions. My game against Steven really made the point of how important the cadre of Gds are in 1942, not only can they actually stand up to an attack but they are pretty much the only counter-attacking tool till the Tank Corps start to improve their cv.
My fundamental goal is to make the most of the much larger Pzr force. My losses are still around 50% of the last game and that means, potentially, a lot of hitting power come the late spring