Option for low information

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: Shadow Paladin
1) Thats because as I stated "Okay I think I understand what your asking for so I will explain my opinion of it" was merely me saying Pete this is my batch of ideas on how these things work and was not in anyway saying anything about his ideas or your questions, comments or advice about them. I can understand you getting confused though with what I said as at the time of writing I was a little unsure myself.

So it was not a direct answer. You're just telling me I'm right, not wrong.
I'm not confused, you seemed to be confused about how these things work. You admitted 2 of your points were wrong, and the other just kinda diffused to something else.

I think it really does not matter if the points are valid or not even though they are good points, as this is a discussion about what possibly could be altered. Do really think that the game cannot be made any more realistic or challenging at all in anyway? Do you think if it can its worth putting it forward?

But that's precisely the point. Does it make it more realistic? I haven't seen a good argument to that effect. Does it make it more challenging? Or does it make it boring?

You made me type and try to think when I am a sick bunny, thats certainly misbehaving you naughty boy [;)]

I aim to please [;)]

3) At mid ranges or less its roughly equal but not higher up (my mistake sorry) though that does me remind me of another thing. A scanner and even the lightest of them can give a better to hit bonus that a BC albeit you need a semi decent scanner skill and time.

Can, yes. So?

As for what should and should not be on there I would say

a) no system data unless the jock can eyeball or else people would just put fake antennae to fool the computer, not so easy to do to a jock who has a very good working knowledge of titans

Heh. No comment.

b) weapon data from scans should be kept to just energy weapons due the power being quite obvious in scans unlike solid ammunition that cannons use though perhaps with the GC being the sole exception when it fires (by this I mean you know where the systems are as the PU usage flares them up on the scanner. Of course a jock looking at the titan would be able to tell where the weapons are unless blind drunk (fav pastime of their commander [:D])

Doesn't make sense. Energy weapons only use power when reloading. You'd be able to see them even if they hadn't been fired. And it shouldn't be too difficult to make out a cannon in a titan's arm, and even distinguish an AC20 from an AC7. Even a drunk commander would be able to [;)]

c) only systems that would be obvious like the engine, heat reg, jump jets and if they use it to scan you their scanner should show damage. How do you know if your opponents life support and targetting array are up the creek other than he keeps on missing you a lot or if he has lost ammo for reason or another.

Did I mention F4 already?

No, no I said "The scanner could be made to give a vague reading so instead of seeing 26 to 30 APs in a location you would just see 6. " meaning any reading between 26 and 30 would be shown even on a green scan as a 6 so you have to guess roughly how hard you need to hit the area to take it out instead of just chipping more armour off. If the value is different due to a less than perfect scan then it can also show what it thinks is roughly the new armour i.e. 12APs would fall inbetween 11 and 15 thus give 3 thus making it nice and fuzzy and less precise. PM me if you want me to give you a demo of what I mean as its still to be honest floating around in my head not totally formed yet.

I don't know if you're confusing me or yourself. Why 6? Crappy scanner. Buy a new one [:)]

APs = mms erm PM me and I will explain that for you to though not tonight my poor pea brain hurts [:(]

4) Just PM me and tell me what I have to do and what time is good for you as its about time I had somebody teach me how to play this game properly [:D]

Do you have ICQ?

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: Shadow Paladin
3) At mid ranges or less its roughly equal but not higher up (my mistake sorry) though that does me remind me of another thing. A scanner and even the lightest of them can give a better to hit bonus that a BC albeit you need a semi decent scanner skill and time.

Just a heads-up. You do know that not having a BC incurs in a -25% penalty to your to hit chances with weapons except CC, right? And that your lock times will go through the roof?

[Shadow Paladin]

Yes I do know that without a BC you get a -25% penalty and the chance of not being able to lock onto squat for a good 30 seconds plus as I have had my BC shot out from under me before. The point I was trying to make though was that the +8% for a green scan means that if you have a jock with a really good scanner skill and the most basic scanner you can get the same affect of having a much better battle computer than you already have so thus can use a scanner to replace to a degree or totally if your a souped up CC titan the battle computer, useful if your low on spare tonnage and slots but a tad too powerful IMO.

[Peter Why]

... continuing along the original path ... and no-one other than the jock firing missiles should know whether a hit was accidental. How could the target know for certain whether a cluster of missiles that hits him was aimed or not?

[Thorgrim]

Hmm, an ECM might make you reconsider that. Plus, with no BC and a crappy scanner, by the time you get the 8% bonus you've died of old age. A good scanner skill doesn't replace a good scanner, because of the scan time modifier (and ranges, but that's beside the point).
BCs and scanners complement each other, they're not "interchangeable". True, you can have a pure CC titan without a BC, but that'll make you vulnerable to losing lock.

[Shadow Paladin]

It was originally a reply to Pete. I was using above to tell you that I was not actually intruding into your conversation with him but carrying on the thread that Pete had made, i.e. how to make scan less affective but the game more realistic so that we might have something to give to the creators so that we might have a menu option to use these variable rules like you can the fog of war.

It was a direct answer to the thread and to Pete not to you. The thread is about alternative ideas not the current game mechanics. So you are wrong by bringing this information into the thread and having a go at me about it even if I am wrong, it does not matter as its a work in progress and its just chucking ideas around to see what you get.

I may be confused how these things work I am new afterall. Your old and confused about what the threads about even though both Pete and I have said. Sorry to get irritable but I did say I am ill and not up to doing anything tonight but I feel I must as you seem to be missing the point. Sorry if you find this offensive but I am getting somewhat offended myself. [:(]

Does less info about an enemys capabilites make it more difficult or more realistic. Of course it does as it makes it harder. No more popping that last bit of LL internal armour off with a small laser because now it might need you to use your medium laser and your rather keen to keep that unused as your heat is getting very near bursting point but if you dont he might get up and flame you into shutdown. Normally it would be right 3APS left in the LL better just blast it with my small laser, job done. See not boring at all, more variable afterall and probably a better challenge for the really good players out there like yourself. [8D]

Me to, look at the barrel of my nice new shiny BRG [:D]

See post above or below about another of my pet hates for the all powerful scanner.

They might only use power when they are reloading but they store large amounts of it which should show up especially as some carry more power than the engine. I agree it should not be a problem to see what weapons a titan has if you look at it and do not scan it. This afterall is based on a possible theory of a different sort of scanner not the regular ones [;)]

Yes you have mentioned F4 lots already but your missing Petes and my point. We are talking about the scanner working in a different way from the current ones. Thus F4 would have no real impact at all as I have tried saying above [:'(]

Think of this neo scanner as a radar not affected by LoS whatsoever. Instead if you cant block it then it see's everything within its maximum range though the details are somewhat more fuzzier than your normal scanners. Thus you dont need anybody to see an enemy titan to be able to fire a heat seeker at it. You just treat the missle like a cruise missle and fire it at the appropiate hex and hope it locks onto the right heat source when it gets there. Could be interesting if a very hot friend gets in the way [:D] Oh and thus points (3) and (4) of my original post are not wrong using this scanner model.

Why 6? Simply because using the fuzzy scan rule

0 = 0 no armour
1-5 = 1
6-10 = 2
11-16 = 3 etc

It just stops you doing the above with the small laser. It in a way adds a bit of randomness to it all unless you know the armour rating of that particular titan how much it has been hit for. After all popping up from behind cover to hit a tank with rocket launcher might seem like a great idea as your friend has just blown a chunk out of the area your about to fire at but will it mean you get a killing blow. Unless you know it will then you might want to wait for your friend to reload so you both hit it assuring its demise or perhaps not. Exciting is it not [:D]

Nope just MSN. PM me if you have msn and want to swap

Sorry about not adding all the quotes etc but this thread is a bit spam heavy as it is. Pete fancy starting it a new with strict instructions of what should be added and what should not?

[Shadow Paladin]

I never said no BC unless on a CC titan. I was pointing out that you could get quite good results with the bog standard basic one even though your using a bog standard scanner making a scanner a bit more of an assest than a BC because especially as you get to carry more weight the extra speed and precision of scanning a target means your more likely to get a good lock and the bonus to hit without the extra weight or slots of a better BC.

I agree they do complement each other but a scanner is perhaps a far more destructive tool than the BC when surely it should be the other way around. It might take a while but your probably using a better scanner than BC anyway. The example I was giving is just a way to show how effective it can be

ECM is good for that but there again just take a few GME's to make them stop doing that

[Thorgrim]

Ok, I didn't think you were really ill - it seems to come and go though. I will stop posting about this, but consider this. I am not confused. I know exactly what you both mean. Maybe after you both get some play time under your belts you see I'm right. It was never my intention to offend anyone here. But now you've come up with a "new" scanner. That was never mentioned before, and I don't think it was ever an issue. But whatever.
BTW, adding instructions to a thread?! You're ill, yeah [;)] (no, I won't touch it, relax)

[LarkinVB]

I did NOT follow the whole thread, just the last few messages. Here is a hint from a real TOS veteran. If its possible, get a BC 6 and a scanner 6. If not and you are a rookie, get a BC as good as possible and afterwards look for a good scanner. A good BC will give you a bonus for each and every shot. A scanner will only do you good if you really mange to scan the enemy. At best +8% more likely +4% or nothing at all. A good scanner is NO substitution for a good BC. A good scanner is deadly with a hero jock as it will allow him to do called shots as soon as possible. I just killed a 200t Behemoth with my hero jock piloting a Marauder. What did I do. I targeted his center torso and ignored the rest. In this specific case the scanner was more important than the BC as my to hit percentage was more than enough to do the called shots. For a less expreienced jock a good BC is much more valuable.

[Shadow Paladin]

I seem to have caught Chronic Fatigue so its hardly life threatening but when your sleeping 12 hours a day and spending the next 12 yawning your head off being forced to stay up for 30 hours in one go makes you a lil crazy.... crazy I tell you CRAZY!!!!

I know you know your stuff and in reply to Larkins so does he and that goes without saying but the point of the post was to create another way of playing by altering the scanner. How we altered it was not our starting point just what we wanted was. Bit like titan building, you start with an idea for a deisgn but modify it as you go along.

Perhaps you would like to add something to the thread on how an alternative scanner system could work as surely you guys are so good now (all called shots to the central torso I am sure is no easy feat) that perhaps a slight change would be good for you. With a less reliable scanner rule things would be different. You would gain artillery able to fire over hills without spotters and imagine the pop up attack. You jump high and let loose, you fall back to earth and wait for them to climb over the hill and you jump up and disappear over the next hill before giving them another blast. Oh and friendly fire becomes much more likely meaning you have to be a bit more careful with the location of your titans. Surely the tatics that you use would have to change to deal with such new threats and thus give you new challenges which is surely a good thing? Especially if you can turn it on and off like the fog of war [:D]

Sorry if I offended you Thorgrim it was not inentional [:(]

I wouldnt touch it either it might be catching [;)]

Ok this is my last post on anything thats not an idea for the thread [:)]

[Thorgrim]

Sorry to hear about your condition. That sux.

I don't want to return to the topic, really, but Peter's initial point was (and the thread's title) to have an option/switch to filter information, not alter the scanner. You're starting to hop between these two now.

You didn't offend me. I was trying to explain. But you seem to have developed an obsession with the scanner being too powerful or something. If it was, it would have been toned down LONG ago. It works fine as it is IMO. I'm not trying to say your ideas suck, I'm trying to show you why they're not correct.

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: Shadow Paladin

you guys are so good now (all called shots to the central torso I am sure is no easy feat)

This is not about player skill, but about jock skill. You can do it yourself, just use random Hero jocks, or create a special squad with high stats. If your modified to hit is above 85% with applicable weapons, and you have a yellow or better scan of the target, you can call shots. No big secret to it [;)]

[Shadow Paladin]

I know how to do that one but where is the fun in using a special squad when you can build your own squad up to such lusty heights [:D]

Your right but to enact point 2 of his post you would have to muck around with the scanner to some degree to make it work better and come on you cant deny your not a lil curious what would happen if your scanner was not much use [;)] give it a go at not relying on called shots in an assault titan [:D]

Yes the scanner is evil, down with the scanner [;)]

Hmm I think bed might be a good idea now [>:]

[Thorgrim]

Actually, point 2 was the most unrealistic of them all, and the one that made the least sense even if you didn't consider realism. [;)]
And, no, I'm not a bit curious. If the scanner exists, then I want to use it. I'll use anything at my disposal to get the job done.
As for relying on called shots in assaults, if I'd do that, I'd be dead in short order most of the time. In the example Larkin offered, guess which titan had no shield and the least armor? [:D] And the CT is the easiest part to call shots to, BTW.
So, build a special squad, and test called shots. See if it's that easy.

[LarkinVB]

ORIGINAL: Thorgrim

So, build a special squad, and test called shots. See if it's that easy.

It wasn't that easy at all. 100% energy weapon skill with two plasmas and a large laser did help. And then there was the bonus for the good BC [:)]

[Thorgrim]

LOL
Gotta love the Marauder (and the Pillager) for called shots with PGs (GCs). [:D]

[LarkinVB]

Have to admit that I was happy to accept the draw offered afterwards. My squad was down to two damaged Marauders, facing 2 Devastators a and a Fortress.

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: LarkinVB

A good BC will give you a bonus for each and every shot. A scanner will only do you good if you really mange to scan the enemy. At best +8% more likely +4% or nothing at all.

Another detail. The scanner bonus will only apply for the titan that was successfully scanned, whereas the BC bonus always applies. So if you're facing 5 titans and only have a green scan on one of them, only against that one will you get the scanner bonus. The BC bonus applies against all 5.