Disparate Questions：Midget Subs and Entrenchment

[IanBrandonAnderson]

Hey all

I'm starting my first ever run-through of this game, and I figured the Aleutian Islands campaign would be a good place to start since it appears to be a fairly low-intensity situation, with smaller forces at the outset. I've read that as the Japanese, being aggressive with submarines is essential in this scenario. I went to order my midget subs around, only to find out that their range is absolutely tiny - only able to move one hex away from the naval base. This makes me wonder, what is the best way to utilize them? I've read somewhere that they can be used vaguely for defending bases, but operationally speaking I'm not sure how I'd do that. Do I just order them on patrol for these single hexes, or even let them idle outside? As a brand new player I'm not sure how submarines in general are handled operationally, although the normal ones I can at least order into enemy waters or use for patrol purposes. Any general advice on the Aleutian scenario (or a better scenario for a beginner) would be much appreciated, too.

My next question is completely different, and is more about whether there's any kind of system to model the ingenious Japanese defenses at battles like Iwo Jima and Peleliu, specifically in their ability to withstand extensive bombing to little, if any, critical damage. In my experience with other wargames like Hearts of Iron 4, naval/air bombardments provide combat boosts unaffected by the level of entrenchment or fortification. Does this game have any capacity to model these late-war fortifications, which were largely unharmed by pre-landing shelling?

[Platoonist]

I went to order my midget subs around, only to find out that their range is absolutely tiny - only able to move one hex away from the naval base. This makes me wonder, what is the best way to utilize them? I've read somewhere that they can be used vaguely for defending bases, but operationally speaking I'm not sure how I'd do that. Do I just order them on patrol for these single hexes, or even let them idle outside?

Really, about the only way to use midget subs offensively is to load them aboard a mother sub, which them transports them to the port you want them to attack. It's a one-way mission. They are not coming back and the odds of success are usually slim. I believe only a limited number of Japanese submarine classes can act as a mother ship. The task force mission is called Midget Sub Carrier. I think you have to have midget subs in the pool before you can form this type of task force.

Midget sub carrier.jpg (123.48 KiB) Viewed 849 times

[Platoonist]

So, it looks like the only way you could load a midget in the Aleutian scenario would be to sail the Japanese sub I-24 from Paramushiro in the Kurile Islands to Kiska Island in the Aleutians and then load one of the midget subs stationed there.

[IanBrandonAnderson]

So, it looks like the only way you could load a midget in the Aleutian scenario would be to sail the Japanese sub I-24 from Paramushiro in the Kurile Islands to Kiska Island in the Aleutians and then load one of the midget subs stationed there.

Good to know about the I-24, I didn't know midget sub carriers would be an option in this scenario. Might be worth a try, if only for practice. When it comes to the port attack, would I want to have the midget sub directly attack the port itself, or lurk in the waters a tile or two beyond it? What about regular submarines? Thanks so much for your reply, by the way.

[Platoonist]

It's been a while since I played the Empire. but I seem to recall that once the laden mother sub entered the port hex you wanted to attack, the midget would depart and make its attempt early in the sequence of play. If the midget was lucky, you'll actually see the animation of the midget sub attacking a suitable target in the enemy port with torpedoes like any sub attack. If unlucky, there is a message that observers noted an unknown object hung up in an anti-submarine net...or on a reef or a beach. Basically, evidence of your failed but honorable midget mission. Banzai.

I don't think you can release midgets in the open ocean due to their very limited range, but maybe a regular Japanese player can chime in on that.

[Chris21wen]

It's been a while since I played the Empire. but I seem to recall that once the laden mother sub entered the port hex you wanted to attack, the midget would depart and make its attempt early in the sequence of play. If the midget was lucky, you'll actually see the animation of the midget sub attacking a suitable target in the enemy port with torpedoes like any sub attack. If unlucky, there is a message that observers noted an unknown object hung up in an anti-submarine net...or on a reef or a beach. Basically, evidence of your failed but honorable midget mission. Banzai.

I don't think you can release midgets in the open ocean due to their very limited range, but maybe a regular Japanese player can chime in on that.

There are 5 mother subs that can carry a mini, I16,18,20,22,and 24. It isn't wise to send the mother sub into a port, too shallow and too restricted, others do it and I've tried it but lost too many mothers. I've had success this way.

Mini subs have a ramge of 2 enough to form in an adjacent hex to target. Set them to patrol the target one hex awayl. Once the cambat has been carried out set them to merge with the mother one hex, although they might head home automatically. Like all TFs if set to patrol or just move too a single hex they use little or no fuel so will simply stay there until combat occurs. The longer they are there the more the likelyhood of detection with all that that entails.

The mother ship can patrol two or more hex outside waiting for that moment. You can reset her mission to sub as opposed to mother but I've found they become more aggressive as subs and therefore more liely to be sunk. If the mini is still afloat don't leave the area without it, even if it's not carried out an attack, just a waste of resources if you do. If the mini sinks send mother home anyway. They are to valuable to waste as subs.

[Chris21wen]

The answer too your entrenchment question is yes.

Entrenchments can go upto 9,(6 in atolls) and help defend any military target in the hex. The large forts are difficult to destroy and use huge amounts of supply and time building. The only way I know to destory any fort is via engineers on the ground. Bombardment won't do it, but they will prevent them being built by damaging other stuff and as engineers have to fix damaged before building new. Keeping it so is difficult if a base has engineers.

[IanBrandonAnderson]

The answer too your entrenchment question is yes.

Entrenchments can go upto 9,(6 in atolls) and help defend any military target in the hex. The large forts are difficult to destroy and use huge amounts of supply and time building. The only way I know to destory any fort is via engineers on the ground. Bombardment won't do it, but they will prevent them being built by damaging other stuff and as engineers have to fix damaged before building new. Keeping it so is difficult if a base has engineers.

That's great, thank you!

[IanBrandonAnderson]

It's been a while since I played the Empire. but I seem to recall that once the laden mother sub entered the port hex you wanted to attack, the midget would depart and make its attempt early in the sequence of play. If the midget was lucky, you'll actually see the animation of the midget sub attacking a suitable target in the enemy port with torpedoes like any sub attack. If unlucky, there is a message that observers noted an unknown object hung up in an anti-submarine net...or on a reef or a beach. Basically, evidence of your failed but honorable midget mission. Banzai.

I don't think you can release midgets in the open ocean due to their very limited range, but maybe a regular Japanese player can chime in on that.

There are 5 mother subs that can carry a mini, I16,18,20,22,and 24. It isn't wise to send the mother sub into a port, too shallow and too restricted, others do it and I've tried it but lost too many mothers. I've had success this way.

Mini subs have a ramge of 2 enough to form in an adjacent hex to target. Set them to patrol the target one hex awayl. Once the cambat has been carried out set them to merge with the mother one hex, although they might head home automatically. Like all TFs if set to patrol or just move too a single hex they use little or no fuel so will simply stay there until combat occurs. The longer they are there the more the likelyhood of detection with all that that entails.

The mother ship can patrol two or more hex outside waiting for that moment. You can reset her mission to sub as opposed to mother but I've found they become more aggressive as subs and therefore more liely to be sunk. If the mini is still afloat don't leave the area without it, even if it's not carried out an attack, just a waste of resources if you do. If the mini sinks send mother home anyway. They are to valuable to waste as subs.

This is good to know, I'll have to experiment with midget operations on the offensive. Do you know how I might use midget subs in a defensive context?

[Platoonist]

This is good to know, I'll have to experiment with midget operations on the offensive. Do you know how I might use midget subs in a defensive context?

That's pretty straightforward. If your port has midget subs stationed there, click on form a task force and pick "Midget Submarine" for mission type. Then pick which midget sub(s) you want for your TF. You can put up to four in one task force. Then they'll protect your base with their formidable battery of two torpedoes each. (But at least Japanese torpedoes work)

Midget submarine TF.jpg (38.42 KiB) Viewed 650 times

[IanBrandonAnderson]

This is good to know, I'll have to experiment with midget operations on the offensive. Do you know how I might use midget subs in a defensive context?

That's pretty straightforward. If your port has midget subs stationed there, click on form a task force and pick "Midget Submarine" for mission type. Then pick which midget sub(s) you want for your TF. You can put up to four in one task force. Then they'll protect your base with their formidable battery of two torpedoes each. (But at least Japanese torpedoes work)


Midget submarine TF.jpg

I see. Once they're given the Midget Sub mission, do they automatically engage ships that draw near the port, similarly to CAP fighter planes that (from what I've read) automatically intercept any hostile planes nearby?

[Platoonist]

I see. Once they're given the Midget Sub mission, do they automatically engage ships that draw near the port, similarly to CAP fighter planes that (from what I've read) automatically intercept any hostile planes nearby?

In this game, things are rarely 100% automatic. Even CAP. They should intercept any ships that enter the hex, but it's all subject to the vagaries of weather, timing, commander aggressiveness, light conditions, etc. Let's just say the odds are good.

[RangerJoe]

I have successfully used mini-subs in the open ocean. Yes, they have sunk enemy ships. Of course, they are also easily sunk themselves.