Letting my guys die

[ncc1701e]

Is it possible to do something for naval invasion?

My conclusion is that:
1. either you win first turn after the invasion
2. either you die

Here, this is a corps vs a division. IJN made few strikes and I have diverted my fleets to sink about 5 CVs and 2 BBs leaving my corps without supplies.

And now checking my corps, effectiveness is down at 10%... I don't see why honestly.

And restoring effectiveness is mission impossible now.

No possibility to re embark.
No possibility to reinforce the lost steps by a new naval landing.

Ideas to enhance the game?

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effectiveness recovery 1.JPG (89.27 KiB) Viewed 1226 times

[AlvaroSousa]

Have you naval resupplied them? Used naval support on attacks? Ground struck the enemy?

Re-embarking is on my list.

[ncc1701e]

Naval resupplied them? No, it was too risky to put my fleet in Fleet mode with all the IJN carriers around. And, this is only to restore 4% of effectiveness.

Used naval support on attacks? Yes, the first turn. But then my BB fleet had to leave with IJN carriers attacking them.

Ground struck the enemy? No, no land based planes in range. And I don't use my US carriers in Fleet mode otherwise they get sunk doing carrier interdiction.

[stjeand]

Okay so for the "best" invasion you should do the following:

1) Use supply trucks on your unit before the invasion. This way you have 4 supply when you land.
2) Have 3x surface for attacking the unit. So if you Attack strength is say 8...you need 24 surface and that will add 8.
3) You can have an HQ on a transport and that helps. Basically load on a transport. Use 1 movement point to get within 5 attack twice...then move back to port and unload.
4) IF you own an island within 6 hexes be sure a bomber is there so you can use air supply the unit. You can keep the unit at 4 supply in that case and I do not think you will lose efficiency.


NOW this is the "best" possible scenario.

To the issue at hand.

You land a unit...
You lose X efficiency based on your amphibious invasion level. Though this does not appear to work correctly. Japan is set to 25%...You invade with a marine you lose 30%. That is odd.
So you are at 70%...you then send a naval unit down and you are able to supply beachhead and get 5% back so your unit is at 75%.
The expectation is at this point you attack...that is at least 8% loss...unless it goes poorly then more.
Then you make a second attack, you are now down from 75% at least 16% more. So you are at 59%.
Next turn you are dropped 10% to 49%...why? Because you are out of supply.
Though I do not understand why you are at 4 supply level that you are "out" of supply. You should be still in supply

But either way...any unit not in supply you lose 10%. I believe you lose more when you are under 3 supply...but would have to play around with the level.


Even though you are fully supplied it does not matter. You always lose more than you can gain IF you are not in a main supply route....not matter what you do.

I am okay with this though...makes you have to plan more. It does suck you can not evacuate you unit since you have full naval superiority or even supply them fully as honestly you could in the scenario you show.

[ncc1701e]

You land a unit...
You lose X efficiency based on your amphibious invasion level. Though this does not appear to work correctly. Japan is set to 25%...You invade with a marine you lose 30%. That is odd.

Bug to report? I admit I did not check this. Or is it 5% tax per landing period plus the amphibious level?

[ncc1701e]

Even though you are fully supplied it does not matter. You always lose more than you can gain IF you are not in a main supply route....not matter what you do.

I am okay with this though...makes you have to plan more. It does suck you can not evacuate you unit since you have full naval superiority or even supply them fully as honestly you could in the scenario you show.

Perhaps you are losing too much being out of supply. The fight has started before my holidays so I have forgotten a little. But I think the unit is here since 3 turns only. And I am already down at 10% effectiveness. Okay, this is one month and a half.

Perhaps, naval resupplied should give an effectiveness boost of 15% effectiveness instead of 5%.

[stjeand]

Naval resupply give more than 5%...

Though I have not figured it out yet. When I have a unit at 10% and naval resupply I get something like 14%...

There is some math that I am not privy too and have yet to figure out. I just know that when you unit is above 50% you are NOT getting more than you are losing.

[stjeand]

Naval resupplied them? No, it was too risky to put my fleet in Fleet mode with all the IJN carriers around. And, this is only to restore 4% of effectiveness.

Used naval support on attacks? Yes, the first turn. But then my BB fleet had to leave with IJN carriers attacking them.

Ground struck the enemy? No, no land based planes in range. And I don't use my US carriers in Fleet mode otherwise they get sunk doing carrier interdiction.

Naval resupply with Subs. Then you lose little if one is sunk. Not sure he would go after them.
Your BBs did what they were supposed too...but you need them to come back sadly, else...yes your corps will die.

Also could have had your CVs within air range of the island...switched to fleet mode...attacked once and moved away. That way you do get one attack.

Also from what I can see since you did move your units away from the island the Japanese unit went back into supply...which completely screwed you...they recover while you lose.

[ncc1701e]

According to wikipedia, Guadalcanal campaign lasted from 7 August 1942 to 9 February 1943.
6 months and 2 days.

In the game, can anybody do naval supply of land units without port during six months?
That's basically what Japan did with the Tokyo express.

[ncc1701e]

Also from what I can see since you did move your units away from the island the Japanese unit went back into supply...which completely screwed you...they recover while you lose.

Yes but at the cost of 5 CVs and 2 BBs.

But you are right. And since the game beams up reinforcements with no transport ships, no naval interception of any enemy reinforcements ship could be done. Whereas my subs are in range.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=382087

[generalfdog]

The supply ship or logistics specialty really helps I always have at least one, actually started putting it on a sub since they can stay longer

[AlvaroSousa]

Here is the thing. If the other player's fleet is stronger than yours then you shouldn't be trying the invasion. You need naval and/or air superiority over the hex.

[ncc1701e]

The other player is keeping his fleet in port. So hard to achieve a Midway lucky shot. Did USA start the Guadalcanal campaign with a complete naval / air superiority over the island? I am not sure.

[stjeand]

When the Guadalcanal campaign started the US had naval superiority...
THOUGH I suspect they were unaware that they did.

At the time, the Japanese had no fleet CVs in the area...I think only 1 was actually available for battle at this time.
4 had sunk.
2 were in Japan being repaired / refit.

Surface vessels Japan was fine on at this time but we all know that CVs were still coming into their own at this time.

I believe Japan did have more land based air in the area at the time though.

[ncc1701e]

Japanase player has insight. They won't do another Midway.

[ncc1701e]

The supply ship or logistics specialty really helps I always have at least one, actually started putting it on a sub since they can stay longer

Thanks for the tip, I will try to see if it is improving the effectiveness recovery.

[ncc1701e]

Logistics specialty is indeed a little better.

Another point, why several fleets can't perform beachhead supply of the same unit the same turn?

[AlvaroSousa]

Because you can only dump so much supply in a given turn. It would also be abusive late war for the Allies.