sIG33 No indirect fire?

11Bravo · Post by **11Bravo** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 4:19 am

Playing MCNA and came across the sIG33. Encylopedia says its a SPA which was often used in a direct fire role.

Game doesn't let me choose to use its indirect fire capability. Is this by design, or is it an OOB bug?

By the way, what does sIG mean?

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 4:23 am

I think its by design. It's always been that way in all the SP games. sIG stands for "Schwere Infanterie Gewehr" I think. Meaning heavy infantry gun.

Tomo

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 4:28 am

Doesn't one of the SPWAW movie clips show a Sig33 moving through city streets in combat? Hardly an indirect weapon.

Possum · Post by **Possum** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 4:31 am

Hello 1Bravo
The sIG 33 was designed for direct fire only, as it was simply a self propelled infantry gun. (the version on the Pz I chassis that is, there also exists a towed veron with the same name.)
Tombstone, the translation is spot on.

11Bravo · Post by **11Bravo** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:02 am

Thanks. I'll move them up behind my infantry and start plinking away.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:13 am

Originally posted by Tombstone:
It's always been that way in all the SP games. Tomo

Not so. Back in SPWAW 4.? I had sIG's (self-propelled and regular) show up on my indirect fire menu; I remember their response time was slower than standard artillery though. Its possible this was scenario specific, or maybe due to OOB's I downloaded.

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:33 am

Originally posted by tracer:
Not so. Back in SPWAW 4.? I had sIG's (self-propelled and regular) show up on my indirect fire menu; I remember their response time was slower than standard artillery though. Its possible this was scenario specific, or maybe due to OOB's I downloaded.

There are a number of different SiG's.

Del · Post by **Del** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:46 am

Infantry guns could use indirect fire. Not very good at it because it was not their primary function. They were made for direct fire support. IMO, the casualties caused by a 150mm HE round in direct fire is way under done.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:51 am

Originally posted by Warrior:

There are a number of different SiG's.

Understood. I remember after seeing them on the bombard menu in that scenario I bought some for the core force in my next campaign, thinking 'hey, cheap arty'...no dice. Looks like they have to be designated as 'indirect fire capable' by the scenario designer since the off-the-shelf IGs only fire direct.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:56 am

Originally posted by Del:
Infantry guns could use indirect fire. Not very good at it because it was not their primary function. They were made for direct fire support. IMO, the casualties caused by a 150mm HE round in direct fire is way under done.

They do cause alot of suppression though, and you get collateral damage with them too (kills in adjacent hexes). I wonder how they do against infantry 'in the open' with the new combat model...should be devestating.

gators · Post by **gators** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 6:03 am

The Sig was not an SPA. It was like another poster said an infantry gun mounted on an obselete tank chassis. It had very little elevation so it couldn't have been used in an indirect fire role.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 6:06 am

The standard weapons encyclopaedia I have verfies the sIG33 portrayed in the game was direct fire only - gets confusing because apparently there was more than one model, though I can't provide a lot of detail on this.

Appears the weapon has been modelled correctly, from all I can find out.

Bing

monsternav · Post by **monsternav** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 6:17 am

Relevant to nothing really, but check the sIG33 out closely. Gerry just chopped the top off a PzI and plunked the standard sIG33 down onto the chassis, wheels, trailing arms and all, and put a flimsy little gun shield around it. Brave men in those things.

headhunter · Post by **headhunter** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 6:19 am

Originally posted by Tombstone:
I think its by design. It's always been that way in all the SP games. sIG stands for "Schwere Infanterie Gewehr" I think. Meaning heavy infantry gun.

Tomo

Allmost correct: sIG stands for "schweres Infanterie Geschütz. ("Gewehr" means rifle.)

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 6:29 am

Originally posted by tracer:
They do cause alot of suppression though, and you get collateral damage with them too (kills in adjacent hexes). I wonder how they do against infantry 'in the open' with the new combat model...should be devestating.

Funny you should ask! I just had one firing at a halftrack and the infantry squad in the hex behind it took severe casualties and retreated even further away.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Warrior ]

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 6:38 am

Originally posted by monsternav:
Relevant to nothing really, but check the sIG33 out closely. Gerry just chopped the top off a PzI and plunked the standard sIG33 down onto the chassis, wheels, trailing arms and all, and put a flimsy little gun shield around it. Brave men in those things.

Goes to show, necessity's the mother of invention; kinda like when the Czech 35 and 38t's were obsolete and they needed a heavy AT vehicle so they used the chassis for Panzerjagers and Marders.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:45 am

In a way, couldn't be considered as an early version of a Stug?
Semper Fi
Randy

Gordon_freeman · Post by **Gordon_freeman** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 12:00 pm

Dear all,

first of all the sIG is the abriviation for
"schweres Infantrie Gechütz", not Gewehr. but that is cause in English you just use gun for everything, we are a little bit more into details....

Anyhow, the sIG 33 was indeed a Panzer I chasis with additional shield plates (it was very high). The Gun was brought on top of the tank and then was self propelled. But the crew was also able to bring the gun down again and use it as a simple gun. The same thing applies to the SdKfz. 4, the halftrach with the 2 cm AA gun. A trained crew could bring the gun up or down in about 40 seconds (I speak of being fire ready!), but this just as a side information. Maybe we should ask the Matrix team to allow this in SP:WAW, would be intersting...(joking).
Now to the inderect fire abilities: I was wwhining in one of my firsdt postings that these infantry guns in general could'nt use inderect fire and Paul answered: Yes, they were able but it was'nt their main function. On the otherhand they were (the crews) not really trained for inderect fire missions (we still could argue about thhat, Paul) but he then said as well (and that I agree): and it will shift the advantage because the effect would be that u get cheap artillery and it would fire to well (in terms of aiming). I agree with that.
But I also have to admit that I secretly changed a few guns in the OoB editor (like the french/polish 75 mm Schneider gun, it was used as inderect fire support, AT gun and I Gun). At the moment I play a campaign as a German and the polish are using these guns quiet well and reallistic, appart from me getting suppressed I feel good and that it was the right solution.

I also stated that the mighty 88 was also used as artillery....
but that is another story.

Greg McCarty · Post by **Greg McCarty** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 12:34 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by George aka 2f:
[QB]Dear all,

....
Now to the inderect fire abilities: I was wwhining in one of my firsdt postings that these infantry guns in general could'nt use inderect fire and Paul answered: Yes, they were able but it was'nt their main function. On the otherhand they were (the crews) not really trained for inderect fire missions (we still could argue about thhat, Paul) but he then said as well (and that I agree): and it will shift the advantage because the effect would be that u get cheap artillery and it would fire to well (in terms of aiming). I agree with that.
.....

--------------------------------------------

I have a number of photos of this little devil in action. They all show the gun being
used in a direct fire role. One in particular is in a city, and in rather close
quarters with the enemy. I imagine these could be quite effective as long as AT weapons were not in the area.

Mai Thai · Post by **Mai Thai** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 12:42 pm

The sIG33, known as the Sturmpanzer I Bison , mounted a 150mm sIG 33 L/11.4 heavy infantry gun and was operated by 4 men. Was build on PzKpfw I Ausf B chassis and the idea behind this vehicle was to provide infantry with *direct* and *mobile* fire support unit. It was also the first self propelled gun produced.
sIG stands for "schwere Infanterie Geschütz"
meaning "heavy infantry gun"

More info:
there was others versions called 150mm sIG33 L/11 SdKfz 138/1 Bison Ausf. M, that was build over a PzKpfw 38(t) chassis, and one called sIG33 on PzKpfw 38(t) Ausf. H, the first having mounted the gun in the rear and the latter having the gun mounted on the front of the chassis.
The successor were the 15cm sIG33 Ausf. PzKpfw II (Bison II) and the Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär (grizzly bear) assault howitzer, based on the PzKpfw IV chassis.
bye

[ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: Mai Thai ]

[ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: Mai Thai ]