U.S. mobilization

[IIo4Tu]

A question for knowledgeable people and developers.
After the embargo for Japan, the US begins to increase its mobilization every turn. Who can say and where it is described at what speed this process is going?
The question arose for this reason: my opponent deployed a lot of troops in Hawaii (occupied almost all the hexes), but the indignation of the isolationists could not block the growth of mobilization, moreover, at the end of autumn, mobilization accelerated significantly, although I did not activate any triggers for this.
I want to clarify this issue, perhaps I missed something while reading the manuals, but it seems to me that the protests of isolationists should cover the growth of mobilization in the absence of external triggers. The ambiguity in this matter significantly worsens the planning of the Axis strategy in 1941.

[archmache]

I like this game a lot so not nagging the developers ..... but there is a serious issue that all the important aspects of the game are not readily available.

There should be a list that shows mobilization plus minus for all events and in the tune summery should be able to scroll through (like the convoy map) and see the changes (graph) with events.

In my current game it's dec and us mobilization is at 72% which is super low and nothing has been different this game ... no idea why

[archmache]

A question for knowledgeable people and developers.
After the embargo for Japan, the US begins to increase its mobilization every turn. Who can say and where it is described at what speed this process is going?
The question arose for this reason: my opponent deployed a lot of troops in Hawaii (occupied almost all the hexes), but the indignation of the isolationists could not block the growth of mobilization, moreover, at the end of autumn, mobilization accelerated significantly, although I did not activate any triggers for this.
I want to clarify this issue, perhaps I missed something while reading the manuals, but it seems to me that the protests of isolationists should cover the growth of mobilization in the absence of external triggers. The ambiguity in this matter significantly worsens the planning of the Axis strategy in 1941.

Yeah I've noticed this too - my opponent last game put marines on all the us islands and that makes it almost impossible to take with AVS that early in the game

[IIo4Tu]

I like this game a lot so not nagging the developers ..... but there is a serious issue that all the important aspects of the game are not readily available.

There should be a list that shows mobilization plus minus for all events and in the tune summery should be able to scroll through (like the convoy map) and see the changes (graph) with events.

In my current game it's dec and us mobilization is at 72% which is super low and nothing has been different this game ... no idea why

I totally agree.
I remember that many patches ago I also placed surplus troops in Hawaii in one game, and at the same time the isolationist protests led to a constant decrease in mobilization, maybe something was changed in some update, or it was some very random well, I would like to understand this aspect.
Maybe someone has at least statistics and I hope the developers will give explanations.

[BillRunacre]

I've pasted below the script that penalizes US mobilization for deploying multiple units in Hawaii.

Perhaps we could increase the swing from 3-5% to something higher?

Maybe from 1st January 1941 onwards so that someone doing it by accident earlier in the game isn't penalized so much (e.g. new players), but someone building up US forces there in the build up to war does find themselves penalized more?

;REMOVE1942
; Pan-American
; US isolationists react to the US build up in Hawaii
{
#NAME= AXIS AI: US Has Too Many Units In Hawaii (USA->Axis)
#POPUP= <<TAG_51>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 3
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 115
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1939/09/01
;3-5% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [3,5] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - USA politically aligned with Allies and not fully active
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [10] [0]
; US build up in Hawaii exceeds 2 units
#CONDITION_POSITION= 257,69 [3,3] [3,3] [2] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 261,72 [1,1] [3,3] [2] [0]
}

[IIo4Tu]

I've pasted below the script that penalizes US mobilization for deploying multiple units in Hawaii.

Perhaps we could increase the swing from 3-5% to something higher?

Maybe from 1st January 1941 onwards so that someone doing it by accident earlier in the game isn't penalized so much (e.g. new players), but someone building up US forces there in the build up to war does find themselves penalized more?

;REMOVE1942
; Pan-American
; US isolationists react to the US build up in Hawaii
{
#NAME= AXIS AI: US Has Too Many Units In Hawaii (USA->Axis)
#POPUP= <<TAG_51>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 3
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 115
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1939/09/01
;3-5% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [3,5] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - USA politically aligned with Allies and not fully active
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [10] [0]
; US build up in Hawaii exceeds 2 units
#CONDITION_POSITION= 257,69 [3,3] [3,3] [2] [0]
#CONDITION_POSITION= 261,72 [1,1] [3,3] [2] [0]
}

Yes, it is obvious that these penalty values are not enough, while I would like to emphasize that this should work from July 1941, when mobilization begins to increase after the announcement of the oil embargo, it is not so important at an earlier date.
In general, the conclusions are that it should not be the case that the deployment of surplus troops in Hawaii allowed the United States to naturally increase mobilization without any external triggers. You can probably better estimate by what value to increase the penalty, but it should be guaranteed to punish, and not like now, when there is clearly not enough negative effect.
Therefore, it would be good if you take this point into account in the next patch.

[Bavre]

This may be a bit nitpicking, but aren't the early percentages of US mobilization the most important? I mean given what a powerhouse their economy is and how long it takes for them to see action, 1% in 39 actually amounts to a surprising sum (I forgot the exact number, but it astonished me when I did the math a while back).

[ThunderLizard11]

I think it's okay as is or maybe a slight bump to 4-6%. Not clear that it's a big benefit to US as units have to be built and moved to Hawaii which takes away from Western Europe. Also only benefit is to protect the ships that spawn but again not game changing.

[BillRunacre]

This may be a bit nitpicking, but aren't the early percentages of US mobilization the most important? I mean given what a powerhouse their economy is and how long it takes for them to see action, 1% in 39 actually amounts to a surprising sum (I forgot the exact number, but it astonished me when I did the math a while back).

If this script fires repeatedly early on then it will likely take the US down to zero mobilisation, and therefore zero income.

However, later on there will be forces swinging the USA towards joining the Allies that will probably override the effectiveness of this script, which is why I'm just thinking that a boost might be needed for later on.

Or to put it another way, an Allied player placing extra units in Hawaii in the early period of the war is only going to be penalising themselves.

[Tanaka]

A question for knowledgeable people and developers.
After the embargo for Japan, the US begins to increase its mobilization every turn. Who can say and where it is described at what speed this process is going?
The question arose for this reason: my opponent deployed a lot of troops in Hawaii (occupied almost all the hexes), but the indignation of the isolationists could not block the growth of mobilization, moreover, at the end of autumn, mobilization accelerated significantly, although I did not activate any triggers for this.
I want to clarify this issue, perhaps I missed something while reading the manuals, but it seems to me that the protests of isolationists should cover the growth of mobilization in the absence of external triggers. The ambiguity in this matter significantly worsens the planning of the Axis strategy in 1941.

Yeah I've noticed this too - my opponent last game put marines on all the us islands and that makes it almost impossible to take with AVS that early in the game

Agreed. People placing USA AA units in Guam, Wake, Midway etc before Japan declares war makes them impossible to take and there does not seem to be any negative consequences here. Most are making house rules against this and I am going to have to next time as well. Definitely need a change here.

[IIo4Tu]

I think it's okay as is or maybe a slight bump to 4-6%. Not clear that it's a big benefit to US as units have to be built and moved to Hawaii which takes away from Western Europe. Also only benefit is to protect the ships that spawn but again not game changing.

This has a significant impact on the game depending on the axis strategy. I have worked out a non-standard strategy for the axis and this glitch breaks everything significantly, not allowing Japan to act as I need.
I hope Taifun will be able to accept my challenge soon and we will record an interesting AAR with something similar.

[IIo4Tu]

This may be a bit nitpicking, but aren't the early percentages of US mobilization the most important? I mean given what a powerhouse their economy is and how long it takes for them to see action, 1% in 39 actually amounts to a surprising sum (I forgot the exact number, but it astonished me when I did the math a while back).

If this script fires repeatedly early on then it will likely take the US down to zero mobilisation, and therefore zero income.

However, later on there will be forces swinging the USA towards joining the Allies that will probably override the effectiveness of this script, which is why I'm just thinking that a boost might be needed for later on.

Or to put it another way, an Allied player placing extra units in Hawaii in the early period of the war is only going to be penalising themselves.

I think that at the beginning of the game you can simply display a warning, but not fine, so that non-experienced players do not immediately weaken themselves out of ignorance, but from the middle of 1941 a serious punishment for excessive militarism should follow.

[IIo4Tu]

A question for knowledgeable people and developers.
After the embargo for Japan, the US begins to increase its mobilization every turn. Who can say and where it is described at what speed this process is going?
The question arose for this reason: my opponent deployed a lot of troops in Hawaii (occupied almost all the hexes), but the indignation of the isolationists could not block the growth of mobilization, moreover, at the end of autumn, mobilization accelerated significantly, although I did not activate any triggers for this.
I want to clarify this issue, perhaps I missed something while reading the manuals, but it seems to me that the protests of isolationists should cover the growth of mobilization in the absence of external triggers. The ambiguity in this matter significantly worsens the planning of the Axis strategy in 1941.

Yeah I've noticed this too - my opponent last game put marines on all the us islands and that makes it almost impossible to take with AVS that early in the game

Agreed. People placing USA AA units in Guam, Wake, Midway etc before Japan declares war makes them impossible to take and there does not seem to be any negative consequences here. Most are making house rules against this and I am going to have to next time as well. Definitely need a change here.

That's right, it seems to me that something can also be thought up here to fine-tune the balance so that the course of the game does not go one-sided, but allows you to have opportunities for different strategic solutions

[Jackmck]

No change is needed- or if it is to be applied, please give expand the area that U.S. tensions would increase to beyond 16 hexes from Honolulu for Japan units, amphibs in particular.

It should not be impossible for the US to defend Hawaii from Japan on their first attack. As it is, 3-4 amphibs positioned north of hawaii can easily eliminate the unit on Honolulu. The U.S. can defend against this by positioning more units in Hawaii, but this has trade-offs- less units/research for the U.S. to pursue against Germany and/or not garrisoning other positions such as Wake, Guam, etc. Also, the tensions decrease as it is would still delay the U.S. entry into the war a turn or two which is significant.

Japan can exploit these trade-offs or simply attack earlier. The U.S. has other options as well.
Bottom line- its fine how it is; please don't make it too easy for the axis to seize Hawaii.

[petedalby]

I agree with Jackmck. No change required. It is already too easy for Japan to take out Hawaii & the US islands.

[Bavre]

Agreed. People placing USA AA units in Guam, Wake, Midway etc before Japan declares war makes them impossible to take and there does not seem to be any negative consequences here. Most are making house rules against this and I am going to have to next time as well. Definitely need a change here.

Wake is a bit of a hassle, but the 2 hex islands always seemed easy to take for me, no matter what was on them:
Just destroy the town with shorebombardment. It has def 0, so no losses just free xp for your ships. Then move one ship next to the harbor to interdict its supply and wait one round. In the next round the unit in town has 1 supply and the other has 0. You can easily destoy the supply 0 one with carriers and/or amphib attack. If you have either the Yamato or Musashi at hand you can even directly damage the supply 0 unit with shore bombardement as those ship's enormous starting xp acts as atk & def in every category. It usually is enough to do 1-2 damage to a unit out of supply.
Once your Marine is ashore, the supply 1 unit in town will die easily too.
One might of course argue that this takes time and leaves the Jap fleet open to counterattack, but imho the only really dangerous island here is Midway. If you take that first before the US forces can respond you can then take your time with the others, as they are deep in your territory and your naval bombers will warn you way in advance of any approaching Yanks. Hell if your cruisers and DDs have nothing better to do you can even use the garrison units as target dummies to grind some extra xp.

[IIo4Tu]

I agree with Jackmck. No change required. It is already too easy for Japan to take out Hawaii & the US islands.

Can then immediately make Hawaii impossible to deploy ground forces, by analogy with Scapa Flow?! to ensure that no one could capture them, because flooding without penalty with a bunch of troops before the war in any case makes it impregnable and looks out of place from the point of view of balance, and the game for the axis does not show variability.

[Tanaka]

Agreed. People placing USA AA units in Guam, Wake, Midway etc before Japan declares war makes them impossible to take and there does not seem to be any negative consequences here. Most are making house rules against this and I am going to have to next time as well. Definitely need a change here.

Wake is a bit of a hassle, but the 2 hex islands always seemed easy to take for me, no matter what was on them:
Just destroy the town with shorebombardment. It has def 0, so no losses just free xp for your ships. Then move one ship next to the harbor to interdict its supply and wait one round. In the next round the unit in town has 1 supply and the other has 0. You can easily destoy the supply 0 one with carriers and/or amphib attack. If you have either the Yamato or Musashi at hand you can even directly damage the supply 0 unit with shore bombardement as those ship's enormous starting xp acts as atk & def in every category. It usually is enough to do 1-2 damage to a unit out of supply.
Once your Marine is ashore, the supply 1 unit in town will die easily too.
One might of course argue that this takes time and leaves the Jap fleet open to counterattack, but imho the only really dangerous island here is Midway. If you take that first before the US forces can respond you can then take your time with the others, as they are deep in your territory and your naval bombers will warn you way in advance of any approaching Yanks. Hell if your cruisers and DDs have nothing better to do you can even use the garrison units as target dummies to grind some extra xp.

You have to have two ships to blockade ports unless that has changed? Turn after turn I blockaded the port and bombarded the town at Guam with BB and CA. Landed a Marine and attacked the AA turn after turn doing 1 damage each turn. Even with the port at 0 the player would just reinforce the AA over and over. My Marine unit eventually ran out of supply and was trapped. I would have used carriers but they are too precious to waste against AA damage and they were too busy defending against the enemy. I eventually had to run from enemy ships when the player combined all allied ships into the Pacific. Cannot take Guam, Wake, Midway, Philippines, or DEI when they are defended like this and the Allied Death Star fleet is roaming. It just takes too long and you are a sitting duck. Japan just cannot face a mass fleet like this. Good tip about the Yamato being able to bombard better...

[IIo4Tu]

I agree with Tanaka, Japan cannot stay in one place for a long time and endlessly besiege islands, its resources are severely limited and the fleet is too small to be in sight, it must constantly maneuver.
The preliminary strengthening of the islands, including Hawaii, by strong units leads to the senselessness of the Pacific theater of operations. The esteemed EJR has repeatedly drawn attention to this many times before, that because of such flaws, everyone is abandoning taking any action in the Pacific Ocean.

[Bavre]

You have to have two ships to blockade ports unless that has changed? Turn after turn I blockaded the port and bombarded the town at Guam with BB and CA. Landed a Marine and attacked the AA turn after turn doing 1 damage each turn. Even with the port at 0 the player would just reinforce the AA over and over. My Marine unit eventually ran out of supply and was trapped. I would have used carriers but they are too precious to waste against AA damage and they were too busy defending against the enemy. I eventually had to run from enemy ships when the player combined all allied ships into the Pacific. Cannot take Guam, Wake, Midway, Philippines, or DEI when they are defended like this and the Allied Death Star fleet is roaming. It just takes too long and you are a sitting duck. Japan just cannot face a mass fleet like this. Good tip about the Yamato being able to bombard better...

I think you mixed up some mechanics here:
You need 2 units to reduce a port, which is absolutely not necessary. Place one unit next to a port and it will no longer give any supply (works for land units too, btw). Then the only supply source left is the town, which BBs can reduce to 0 (that's important!) for free. CAs are of no direct use, as they have 0 atk vs resource. However they gain XP from attacking them, so why not. The unit in town will never have more than 1 supply (after the town regenerates at the start of the turn), so very limited reinforcements and nearly zero combat power. I usually get 0:4 or 0:5 odds for Marine vs AA and 0:1 or 0:2 for carriers after the Marine's attack. If you really want you can support the attack on Guam with a medium bomber, but it really shouldn't be necessary.

Wake is a different matter however: it's a one hex island and amphib attacks suck vs AA, so even after reducing the supply you will have to brute force it with either lot's of amphibs or costly carrier atttacks since you're missing out on the landed Marine vs AA attack. Not sure if the island is even worth it at this point.

About the Allied fleet:
That's why it's so important to take outlying targets like Midway and Hawaii first. Guam is then so far in your territory that given proper use of naval bombers with high vision range, Allied ships can not approach without a certain first strike including land based air support for you.

Btw: the thing with the Yamato only works vs the unit next to the town and only after it's at 0 supply.