Empires in Arms Screenshots -01

[denisonh]

Thanks Bart!

ORIGINAL: Bart Koehler

I have been letting this conversation take on a life of its own over the past few days, which is good. As I mentioned before, I take all opinions the good and the bad, and try to find the happy middle ground. Part of the problem with releasing screenshots is in trying to find what is best to show and what is not going to cause a stir because something has not been completed. The goal is to give you some idea as to what the final product is going to look like and to generate some excitment. Everyone has been waiting patiently, well most everyone, and we like to keep you in the loop as to where we are. But, there are always going to be things that are not quite done that people seem to focus in on. So, all I can say is that we are really almost done. We are making sure that the underlying code stays true to the game and that updates to Art/Sound etc are handled last. I do not mean to post screen shots to look for bugs, as in one of the screen shots there was some extra code that was there for testing and would not make it in to the game. This is for development purposes.

So, keep the faith, the end of the road is almost here.

FYI, there will be no demo.

Bart

[mrgodo]

OK, I am going to stop conversing with you because I am not sure who you are talking to anymore and I also think that we are having two differenst conversations for whatever reason. Take it easy man.

This will happen when we take other people's words and only use part of them to argue a point.
I'm trying to get you to understand that end users will not find bugs until after they get their hands on the product. To me, this is akin to test driving an automobile by having someone send you a picture of someone driving it. Maybe you'll notice something. As Bart has expressed, he does not expect people to critique screenshots for the purpose of bug busting.

The point you are expressing, as I see it, leans more towards users being able to do things such as find bugs in screenshots. Also, you believe that by enlisting the aid of end users, a better product will result. You seem to be bitter about having bought software in the past which was rushed out the door and is a part of a marketing conspiracy.

My counter to your rush hypothesis is that 1) they certainly aren't rushing the development and release of this product and 2) if it is a marketing rush, who is their competition? I don't think they have a competitor, as you have suggested

thus beating your competitor to market

---

Slighty Different Topic!
I ASK YOU! WHAT KIND OF SCREENSHOT DO YOU WANT TO SEE? Maybe we can coax them into putting a specific screenshot together. Like french troops marching on moscow. Or maybe the english fleet bottled up in harbor (right). How about a build screen? Or economic manipulation? Victory status?

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: mrgodo

OK, I am going to stop conversing with you because I am not sure who you are talking to anymore and I also think that we are having two differenst conversations for whatever reason. Take it easy man.

This will happen when we take other people's words and only use part of them to argue a point.
I'm trying to get you to understand that end users will not find bugs until after they get their hands on the product. To me, this is akin to test driving an automobile by having someone send you a picture of someone driving it. Maybe you'll notice something. As Bart has expressed, he does not expect people to critique screenshots for the purpose of bug busting.

The point you are expressing, as I see it, leans more towards users being able to do things such as find bugs in screenshots. Also, you believe that by enlisting the aid of end users, a better product will result. You seem to be bitter about having bought software in the past which was rushed out the door and is a part of a marketing conspiracy.

My counter to your rush hypothesis is that 1) they certainly aren't rushing the development and release of this product and 2) if it is a marketing rush, who is their competition? I don't think they have a competitor, as you have suggested

thus beating your competitor to market

---

Slighty Different Topic!
I ASK YOU! WHAT KIND OF SCREENSHOT DO YOU WANT TO SEE? Maybe we can coax them into putting a specific screenshot together. Like french troops marching on moscow. Or maybe the english fleet bottled up in harbor (right). How about a build screen? Or economic manipulation? Victory status?

OK, this is what I meant earlier, it's obvious you missed my point or didn't care to read my posts. Maybe you just like to argue, I don't know.

The whole "rushing a product" was NEVER intended (as I stated in my earlier post) to reflect back on Matrix, it was just an off topic example I was using. Matrix is CERTAINLY NOT RUSHING anything. Quite the opposite.

If you read my post, you would see that I said end users will find bugs when using the product, not before, how would they do that?

The screenshots: It doesn't hurt to look at screenshots. HOW CAN IT HURT?? So why are you arguing that it shouldn't be done? If you can find something thru a screenshot, it's just a bonus, a bonus.

We are so not on the same page for some reason.

[dinsdale]

After all this nonsense does anyone think we'll ever see screenshots again?

They're screenshots, not blueprints, get over it [8|]

[Tellu]

The screenshots look GREAT!! [:)]

I'm eager to play this! I hope you guys could tell us a release date. If you do please consider making it such you are going to keep it. So what seems probable + one month should do it. [;)]

[Ozie]

Nice screenshots! I hope to see some more.

[mrgodo]

The whole "rushing a product" was NEVER intended (as I stated in my earlier post) to reflect back on Matrix, it was just an off topic example I was using. Matrix is CERTAINLY NOT RUSHING anything. Quite the opposite.

You should be explicit then. The post I read, while it didn't name matrix, didn't disclaim anything. You mentioned a cyclical marketing strategy that hurts the users.

If you read my post, you would see that I said end users will find bugs when using the product, not before, how would they do that?

By screenshots. According to you. As a bonus.

The screenshots: It doesn't hurt to look at screenshots. HOW CAN IT HURT?? So why are you arguing that it shouldn't be done? If you can find something thru a screenshot, it's just a bonus, a bonus.

Much like this stream, it takes time. Effort. Thought. Frustration. Risk. Etc. I'm just arguing the principle here. Nothing is free. If it is free, chances are it is worthless.

So if you want a screenshot, and I know you do, why not try and coax them with descriptions of what you'd like to see?

[Le Tondu]

ORIGINAL: mrgodo

Nothing is free. If it is free, chances are it is worthless.

How terribly sad it is to say such things.

Love is free. Friendship is free. Self respect is free. The list goes on and on and on.

Look into the eyes of a beloved child or dog -or cat. Look into your mother's eyes if you don't have a pet or a child.

There is a LOT that IS free in this world which is utterly priceless. There is so much that there isn't enough room or time to list them all.

I hope that you can realize this mrgodo. When you do, I dare say that you will have accomplished much in your life.

[mrgodo]

HOKEY SMOKES, LE TONDU!
While you are passionate about life and love, as a true frenchman should be, you must consider that my comments regarding nothing being for free are directed only at the gaming industry. Bart et al sitting back and sipping a bottle of fine wine, enjoying the carefree breeze off the atlantic ocean as they lounge around in their spacious Jersey loft apartments, gazing into the eyes of their supermodel wives or applying that satisfying last coat of wax to their ferraris or mclarens will not make this game better.
Neverman continues to ask what the harm is in looking at screenshots. I guess I did miss his point. And I will agree with him. There is no harm. Looking at screenshots may provide a benefit. My issue is in the creation and distribution of those screenshots. Spending time to create and distribute screenshots is not a free byproduct of game creation. Naploeon himself said that he may lose some things but he would never lose a minute.

Des lapins en pleuche et des belles fleures ne rendera pas cette joute meilleure!

[Bart Koehler]

ORIGINAL: mrgodo

HOKEY SMOKES, LE TONDU!
While you are passionate about life and love, as a true frenchman should be, you must consider that my comments regarding nothing being for free are directed only at the gaming industry. Bart et al sitting back and sipping a bottle of fine wine, enjoying the carefree breeze off the atlantic ocean as they lounge around in their spacious Jersey loft apartments, gazing into the eyes of their supermodel wives or applying that satisfying last coat of wax to their ferraris or mclarens will not make this game better....

...takes another sip...consideres the benefits of invading Spain at this phase of the game, whilst enjoying the soft backrub from the supermodel girlfriend. 'What do you think dear?', he asks solemnly. 'Napoleon is itching for a fight and the Spainards have just entered into an alliance with Turkey. Should I strike when they are weak?' He continues to muse while the wine dwindles.

The short story is that not all of the art is complete and it does take time away from things to actually find the right screen to show. You have it right. We want to show you things, but we have to be careful what we show because we do not want to chase everyone away. But, let me say again, I appreciate everyones comments. Now, let me get back to some heavy drinking.

Bart

[Sigerson]

Bart, thanks for the screenshots. I'm curious if anyone is beta testing this program and might be able to give us some info on how the beta is going. [8D]

[pooroldflick]

the screenshots look great!

been playing the game for 16 years. not long after i began playing the game, i started hoping for a commadore 64 computer version.. haha

quick question: is there any plan on a Mac release??

[Bart Koehler]

ORIGINAL: Sigerson

Bart, thanks for the screenshots. I'm curious if anyone is beta testing this program and might be able to give us some info on how the beta is going. [8D]

Sorry, we have locked all the beta testers in the dungeon. We only allow them visits every few months or so.

[brisd]

Thanks for the updates Bart. I never played the boardgame but look forward to this game probably as much as anyone here. I think the original game counters circa 1986? should remain in the past and we move forward to use the technology available today. Beautiful screenshots!

[pfnognoff]

Sorry, wrong post... Gone with the wind [:D]

[YohanTM2]

ORIGINAL: carnifex

For anyone wondering or wanting to see what the original Empires in Arms boardgame counters look like, here are some links:

EmpiresInArms_AH1.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH2.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH3.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH4.jpg
EmpiresInArms_AH5.jpg

More countersheets HERE

I want the originals as an option!!!!!

[meyerg]

This thread was making good reading, but the controversy is subsiding. I guess I'll summarize.
Screenshots look nice[:'(], chits are picked before forces revealed, Matrix is working as hard as it can, and when Frenchmen play France in PBEM computer EIA, their diplomacy skills will probably be found wanting.[;)]

[Madcombinepilot]

Screen shots look great.

Can't wait to play it.