AIM-260s not working properly?

[Nemo121]

I'm running the latest version of CMO, DX12 etc. I've included my benchmark below

benchmark2.jpg (62.93 KiB) Viewed 646 times

I have a test scenario of 45 unescorted H6s attacking a US CVSG. I have 12 F-22s performing BARCAP in between the H6s and the CVSG. My issue is that their AIM-260s and, to a lesser extent, AIM-9s seem to perform much more poorly than expected in the new build.

I have half of the F22s set to fire at maximum range ( since the H6s are flying directly towards them this should still generate quite a few hits ) and half set to fire at the No Escape Zone.

In testing I am firing an average of 84 missiles ( 72 AIM-260 and 12 AIM9 ) for just 15 or 16 hits resulting in about 11 kills.

A roughly 20% hit rate against unescorted bombers without jamming support seems excessively low to me. Many of the missiles seem to peter out of energy far too soon. I wonder if the issue which was impacting low-range SAM shots may also be impacting these A2A missile engagements?
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0&t=398932
This is the thread of the issue effecting SAMs which may be rearing it's ugly head here also.

I have included the test scenario in the zip file below for anyone who wishes to attempt to replicate.

test a2a.zip

(177.94 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

[Kobu]

Hi

I have been doing some tests and this is what I have seen:

First, you are using version 495 of the database in which the AIM-260 has lower performance than in the latest versions (v502). In the v502 version at maximum range the final PH is between 5-8% more than in v495. In v502 there are not "Petered out" missiles.

Second, chaff countermeasures have a 20% (4% is more realistic) probability of fooling the missile which for this type of missile is very high and this generally lowers the ratio of missiles fired versus targets hit.

Despite this, which would improve the results you are seeing, there are other parameters of the missile that in my opinion are not correct and I will post in another topic.

In v502 for 84 shots I have shot down 23 bombers and damaged 13. It must be taken into account that on such large targets some may return with damage despite a missile hit.

But there are 13 missiles that were fooled by chaff countermeasures which is very high for this type of missile. By comparison, the DECM of the bombers with a PH of 5% only fooled 2 missiles. Of those 13 missiles, at least 10 should have hit, increasing the ratio.

The aim-260 usually hits the bombers but some take more than one or two hits to be shot down leaving fewer missiles to shoot down other bombers.

Offtopic: This is a problem with these missiles optimized for fighters and not bombers. You just have to compare the warhead of these missiles with that of the Phoenix optimized for shooting down bombers. Despite this, all the bombers hit, even if they are not shot down, turn around to return to base and can no longer carry out their mission.
If they were smaller planes we would surely see more shootdowns.

Regards

[Tcao]

I have updated the game db from 495 to 502, it seems like the 495 has a problem on NEZ, the AIM-260 will not automatic fire until at <10nm distance.
Updated it to 502 will increase the fire distance to 60nm

I didn't notice anything weird on the missile flight profile. but...

8/1/2022 1:00:30 AM - Decoy (Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]; Tech: N/A) from 10th Div/29th Reg #6 is attempting to seduce sensor: Active Radar Seeker (Tech: Early 2010s)(Guiding weapon: AIM-260 JATM #13660). Final probability: 20%. Result: 100 - FAILURE

8/1/2022 1:00:30 AM - Defensive jammer (Generic DECM [Average]; Tech: Early 1980s) on 10th Div/29th Reg #6 is attempting to spoof sensor: Active Radar Seeker (Tech: Early 2010s)(Of: AIM-260 JATM #13660). Final probability: 5%. Result: 21 - FAILURE

8/1/2022 1:00:30 AM - Weapon: AIM-260 JATM #13660 is attacking 10th Div/29th Reg #6 (H-6H Badger) with a base PH of 95%. 10th Div/29th Reg #6 has nominal agility: 1.5, adjusted for altitude: 0.8. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 0.64. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.96 - Agility adjusted to 0.27. Agility adjusted for head-on impact effect: 0.2. Final agility modifier: -2%. Intercept angle is 358 deg - hit probability adjusted to 92%.Final PH: 92%. Result: 60 - HIT

IMHO, the efficiency of Generic Chaff Salvo seems to be too high.

[Tcao]

You would also need to consider the missile impact angle. It would be better to fire the missiles head on.

Here after the F-22a release the AIM-260 at NEZ, I made the H-6 group change course to perpendicular to the incoming missiles. Keep the speed at 420kt.

8/1/2022 1:00:29 AM - Weapon: AIM-260 JATM #13659 is attacking 10th Div/29th Reg #10 (H-6H Badger) with a base PH of 95%. PH adjusted for weapon speed: 90% (pure-aerodynamic attitude control). 10th Div/29th Reg #10 has nominal agility: 1.5, adjusted for altitude: 0.8. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 0.64. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.96 - Agility adjusted to 0.27. High-deflection impact (no effect on agility). Final agility modifier: -3%. Intercept angle is 258 deg - hit probability adjusted to 49%.Final PH: 49%. Result: 83 - MISS

Compare with a head-on hit

8/1/2022 1:00:30 AM - Weapon: AIM-260 JATM #13660 is attacking 10th Div/29th Reg #6 (H-6H Badger) with a base PH of 95%. 10th Div/29th Reg #6 has nominal agility: 1.5, adjusted for altitude: 0.8. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 0.64. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.96 - Agility adjusted to 0.27. Agility adjusted for head-on impact effect: 0.2. Final agility modifier: -2%. Intercept angle is 358 deg - hit probability adjusted to 92%.Final PH: 92%. Result: 60 - HIT

See the difference?
Final PH halved.


This is worthy of discussion. IMHO, I am OK with the missile's final PH halved for a nimble fighter beaming the missiles.

6/15/1985 12:04:53 PM - Weapon: AIM-9M Sidewinder #24 is attacking Red1 #3 (MiG-23ML Flogger G) with a base PH of 95%. Intercept angle is 90 deg - hit probability adjusted to 48%.Final PH: 48%. Result: 12 - HIT

But for a slow cumbersome transporter/bomber? No.

Maybe the Dev team can tweak the hit rate formula a little bit. Increase the weight of target's speed in the PH Calculation, and place agility check as the last step in the formula.