Map of Europe (edition) 20kms/hex

[Elessar2]

Oh. people will know going in that it will be a monster game. If that floats their boat, rock on. If not then that's fine too.

Volga and tributaries around Moscow completed:

[Jazon]

Yeah, after the Polish mini-campaign (used as a testbed), I'll likely do Barbarossa next, since making sure Russia works will be the key to the entire thang.

Dnieper and all tributaries completed:

Hi,
could you tell us more about Polish Mini-Campaign? I played September 1939 in many different games and systems. For Polish gamer this campaign is as interesting as ACW for Americans. I tested this many times, and I am always willing to try to save the Second Polish Republic once again! If you could tell me more, I would be delighted!
Jazon

[Jazon]

Can't really be done here since Euro & W@W both lack said tiles; while they do have navigable estuaries (which are used in the Suez Canal, Hamburg/Kiel Canal area, and some others), they lack flexibility to allow many different tile combinations and angles.

That's a shame. I really hope the devs can figure out something that allows modders to use all the features on all games as long as players own all the games with said features.

So owning WW1 would make it possible to enable mines and trenches in all titles and owning American civil war would allow the use of all map tiles.

That's the way it seems. My friend Jazon designed the 1920 Polish-Soviet War mod for SC-WW1 a few years back.
He wanted to make the Dnieper and Pripyat rivers navigable (for gun boats, etc. There were a lot of small scale river actions there historically), but couldn't unless he used a 'Canal' tile. Well that looked goofy and not at all like a squiggly river.

After ACW came out, when I was testing it in Beta, I immediately noticed the great feature with navigatable rivers and thought how useful that would of been for Jazon's mod.

Would be cool if all the same features were in all the game editors.

Hi!
Yeah, the Rivers thing is a pity. There were so many river flotillas that could play significant role in the game, shame to miss them. Anyways I am looking forward to see this project done. As it was mentioned before, great map for 1941 Barbarossa scenario, or early 1941 scenario(with Balkans, Yugoslavia, Greece etc.)
Jazon

[Elessar2]

Not much to report on as far as specific scenarios are concerned just yet, as I'd rather focus on finishing the map 1st seeing how close I am now. The Polish one I have in mind will be a testbed for various gameplay features, used as a springboard for the grand campaign, tho the first full one will likely be June '41 natch.

I am planning to do Russia in basically 3 bands: the current one, which will encompass everything west of the Volga and those northern lakes, and will have the same level of detail as the rest of Europe does. Band #2 will be ~10-30 hexes beyond that, with city/town densities much lower, some skimpage on map detail. Band #3 will basically be a no-man's land with no towns at all, and thus will have minimal detail, unless and until I decide to go back and add them.

[Elessar2]

St. Pete area rivers completed:



I was of two minds w.r.t. the Rybinsk Reservoir. Apparently it only started getting filled right before the invasion, so should be limited to the SE corner, but I kind of like how it looks now.

[Jazon]

Not much to report on as far as specific scenarios are concerned just yet, as I'd rather focus on finishing the map 1st seeing how close I am now. The Polish one I have in mind will be a testbed for various gameplay features, used as a springboard for the grand campaign, tho the first full one will likely be June '41 natch.

Hi,
yeah, September Campaign would definitely be a great start when you will finish this colossus map, and go on with scenario design. If you would have any questions about this campaign, names, features, units, equipment, location of fortifications, how decision on leaving Warsaw by general HQ and President f*** the situation on the front, entering the Soviets, Polish reserves mobilizing during the conflict etc., anything, just feel free to ask. I have lots of materials, and knowledge about this particular campaign. I played this so many times that I actually remember by heart dislocation of Polish forces on September 1st on division/brigade level. Just let me know if you will need anything. I can make also a list of possible decisions for Germans and Poles(like leaving the Warsaw; Wehrmacht using strategic reserve, German 5th Column in Schleisen and Bydgoszcz, Ukrainian insurgents etc.)
Cheers
Jazon

[Elessar2]

Thanks, will likely appreciate all such info, tho I did get a book on the campaign a few months ago.

[Jazon]

Hi,
good to hear! What book are you going to read?
Jazon

[Elessar2]

Oh I finished the Polish one already. My next series will be Robert Forczyk's Tank Warfare trilogy, which really gets into the nitty-gritty (I can no longer read broad overview efforts since they rarely contain anything I don't already know).

[Jazon]

Hi,
You mean Rober Forczyk's Case White: The Invasion of Poland 1939? It's a good one they say. I guess there is everything you need. I don't know if this publication has good order de battalie, but I got some files from Polish Campaign Atlas, with whole Polish and German Forces deployment on September 1st if you need. Anyways, it's great you are doing this, I wish you will succeed and it will be a awesome scenario to introduce your Great 20km hex project!
Cheers
Jazon

[Elessar2]

The Polish book I was reading got shuffled during my recent move, but if I like his tank trilogy I may give it a look. If you have any resources that you could give me they are always welcome (the one thing I haven't found is a map showing unit starting locations on Sept. 1st).

[Jazon]

HI,
I got this one to give a broad, General overview. I can find some more detailed, but I don't know if its necessary. This basically do the job, shows state of affairs on 1st September. It's in NATO so there is no need to much explanaition, just some note from Polish:
Armia Prusy (w mobilizacji) means "in mobilization" so it can either appear understrength or after two-three days. Those divisions are marked (-) next to the NATO symbol. Those units with rugged, semi-arrow are in rail transport (ex. Polish 2nd division near Kielce, or German 10th Panzer division near Bytow. Germans are in Red, and Black (SS units). Poles are Blue.
Polish Cavalry Brigades has shortened names, ex. S=Suwalska ; Pd=Podlaska [the one in north East Poland, close to Lomza) ; M=Mazowiecka ; N=Nowogrodzka ; P=Pomorska ; Pd=Podolska[the one in the west, near Gniezno, those are two different brigades with "Pd" abbreviation!], Wlk= Wielkopolska; Wi=Wileńska, Wo=Wołyńska, K=Krakowska, Kr=Kresowa
Divison with "F" means "Fortress division" it wasn't a division but the crew of a fortified region over there, equivalent of a division
LOW division (Lądowa Obrona Wybrzeża) is a infantry division equivalent formed form sailors and Polish Navy personnel.
Poles had TWO mountain divisions 21st and 22nd; and three independent brigades (Facing south)
ND(with Polish Flag) means General Staff
Those units on Soviet border, one brigade and several regiments are KOP units (Border Defense Units), they were actually well equipped and trained, because they were dealing with soviet saboteurs for years.

One more thing, didn't showed on the map. Since "Prusy" Army was a general reserve army It did have independent engineer brigade, and almost all Polish modern tanks, 1st and 2nd battalion (100 tanks total), those were 7TP tanks, equivalent to German PZIII. One more battalion, equipped in French Renault-35 (50 tanks) was mobilized pretty late and never reached its destination(join 10th Motorized brigade).

Germans:
SS Motorised Regiments: LAH=Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler; G=Germania
Fortress Brigades: N=Netze; G=Goldap, L=Lotzen, K=Konigsberg,
E=Eberhardt police-nazi party members brigade in Danzig
Bernolak: Slovakian Corps (they actively attacked in september campaign).
Germans should also have, maybe a partisan unit/event on German saboteurs in Bydgoszcz and Katowice, also some Ukrainian insurgents in south East Poland
Cheers
Jazon

atlas-1-IX-scaled-1.jpg (588.94 KiB) Viewed 1383 times

[Elessar2]

Oh man that is fantastic Jazon! Mucho appreciated! Of definite help for sure.

Home stretch starting tonight as I begin filling in the terrain in the main (western) Russian area. We shall see if I can get through it without losing my mind. Note it will be exactly 1 year since I started working on the map details on November 1st, but I expect I'll be done with at least this primary zone well before that.

[Jazon]

HI,
I am very glad I could help! I know in western Bibliography this campaign is not depicted in such a detail. Actually each polish regiment has a monography about it, and this campaign is pretty well studied(but only in Polish). If you will need later specific positions for fortifications during this campaign, just let me know.
Now I just remebered there should be also added for Poland some fortress crews(garrisons) for Modlin, Dęblin, Brześć, Wizna strongholds. Also Warsaw "Home Guard" infantry Brigade. Polish airforce was efficently hidden into field airstrips, so Germans bombed only obsolete planes or decoys on their primary airfields. You may represent it by "appearing"polish airforce after German first move, in the beginning of Polish turn. Poland should have P-11 fighter "Pościgowa" ["Pursuit"]Brigade close to Warsaw (around fifty planes, but we can gather other fighter planes scattered around the country to represent into one unit) and an AA unit. Poles did have AA units divisionaly, but the only system-like Anti-Aircraft unit was in the capital.
Armia "Prusy" [codename "Prusy" Army] which was in mobilization and planned as a general reserve army also had a bomber Brigade ("Bombowa"), at Dęblin. It was consisted from 40 PZL-37 "Łoś" ("Moose") medium bombers {very similar to Heinkel He-111] and 50 PZL-23 "Karaś" ["Carp"] dive bomber, but worse then Stuka. There were also other bomber units, but smaller so we can gather them up into this unit.
Poles also used Armored trains, but only 10, so I don't think it's worth it to make a unit out of them.
As for Germans, there were additional units, called "Strategic Reserve" containing six-seven divisions, that weren't part of actual Fall Weiss, but was sent to fight, because of polish resistance, and counter-offensive at Bzura River. I can check them excatly if you want. They might enter the fight, maybe if by 12th september Germans won't reach some of their goals. Germans also should have an equivalent of a brigade together with 8th Army, Grenschutz (there were few Border Guard battalions attached to the 8th army).
If you plan to represent haevy artillery, of course Germans would have more, but Poland also had some Haevy artillery regiments, on the Army level.
One more time I salute to your great project and I am looking forward to see its official birth:)
Cheers
Jazon

[Elessar2]

Feel free to save pics and open in your pic software of choice to check out any details.

Man, that took 7 weeks, but I still have to do the stuff to the Urals as well as the relatively small strip N of the Volga to Kirov, as well as the far north (where there will be no roads or towns-rivers maybe if I need to make it look decent).

I found this incredible zoomable vintage WW2 German map, which proved absolutely invaluable for getting the rail network right:

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail ... erman-army

I only simplified and consolidated things when 2 lines were too close together and such. For playability I extended the rail line west into Stalingrad (else in the SC game system it will be too hard for Russia to reinforce her if threatened).

For the roads I basically followed the rail net, extending roads in key non-rail areas but trying not to overcrowd and overdo it. The map I linked to above showed that the rail net and road net often did not coincide at all, but if I tried to follow that slavishly it would all become a confusing mess of spaghetti for the player to get lost in. The only paved one is the main highway from Minsk to Moscow, as historical records indicated, tho cities were given paved tiles. I did leave some Settlements off of the road network, mainly in the open areas farther south because I don't believe a dirt road makes any difference in any kind of weather for open terrain. They were necessary in the north because without a road, supply quickly drops off with distance.

I stuck with my plan to place rails and roads thru the Pripet Marshes, but plan to have mud in there 50-75% of the time (separate weather zone). For the quasi-desert area west of Astrakhan I did make the Settlements there a bit more sparse. Not sure if that area is hardpan or soft sand...

I also decided to put in quite a few riverine marshes in the south-helps to break up the monotony of the fields, and the Tank Warfare books I recently read (by Robert Forczyk) definitely indicated that they proved to be obstacles in certain campaigns.

For Leningrad I went with a couple of fortified towns south of the main city. The issue with player-made fortifications is that they get destroyed if the unit on top gets killed, but I couldn't leave those spaces blank because for any major cities/capitals I have consistently put in suburbs adjacent to downtown, and saw no reason why I shouldn't here. Plus Leningrad often seems to be easier to take than historically. If you think this is overkill feedback is always welcome-recall the defaults make Fortified Towns less robust than a full Fortification.

Some may note the Settlement density. This is, as discussed earlier in this thread in several spots, meant to give the player on the offensive flexibility so that he doesn't have to deal with supply deserts where (vanilla map) there are no Towns or Settlements at all. They will provide minimal defense bonuses-note the current plan is to bump max fort levels for each city and terrain type up one from vanilla's. I likely will be deleting a few but also adding some as needed.

The Caucasus may be 1 hex too thin N-S, but for playability I can live with that, esp. since there is only one N-S road running through the middle of the thing.

Mines: my readings showed a crucial one near Kherson. I also put in an oil next to Makhachkala on the Caspian based on another note I read somewhere. Otherwise their placement mostly mirrors vanilla's. Google has proved worthless to help me find any more mines, because of the homonym nature of the word "mine", which will give me tons of hits on Bouncing Betties and such, but not much on resource mines.

Make a note of where the Major Rivers are, because defense bonuses for them will be rather steep (as they will proportionately for the smaller ones as well).

I tried to make sure the historical names for population centers were used, esp. in the Ukraine where a bunch got changed, but if I missed any, a heads-up is definitely appreciated.

For Rostov and Astrakhan I had to put the ports at the end of the deltas and not next to the cities. The latter defied all attempts to use the estuary tiles (as discussed last month here), and you need a wide one to put a port into the thing, obviating all land movement across it.

I am happy with how the Crimean crossings worked out, both north and east.

Enjoy, and again all feedback is welcome. I am glad I did Russia last not first as I had originally planned, because I learned tons of things doing the other countries-without those skills doing her first would have proved very frustrating.

[Jazon]

Hi,
If you are looking for maps of USSR this link is two source maps of ALL soviet railroads in 1943. One overlook scheme, and 54 charts for every Oblast.
It's all in Russian, but you can use translator if needed. Again I salute to your monumental effort!
Here's the link:
scroll down the page, anyway this webpage is for free and full of goodies, that only true grognard can appreciate!

http://militarymaps.narod.ru/atlases.html#rail1943sov

Jazon

[Elessar2]

Awesome. I'll see how closely it matches the German one-the latter may very well have a lot of guesswork involved.

Edit: I am not familiar with that file format, nor is my PC alas.

[El_Condoro]

Did you get it download as a djvu format? I looked at this website but haven't done anything as soon as I saw 'ransomware'.

[Elessar2]

Yeah but had no idea how to open it.

On to the eastern part of Russia to the Urals, but a lot is happening in my personal life right now so don't expect anything before early-mid November.

[Taxman66]

Just out of curiosity, but without knowing anything about other changes you are planning, it looks like supply will never be a problem on that map.