I've seen no section for playing in Admiral's Mode. I've managed to get through the game (Hardcore: AI+, NO cheating/reloads/"bad dreams", etc.!) as Japan with 232 Prestige, so I guess that qualifies me to comment. Answer questions, much to share. Yet there is much I do not know. Stuff I need to know.
A-mode is restrictive, so (nearly all, it seems) avoid it. But after experimentation, I find it is not only the easiest (on the player) mode to play, but you don't come out behind on ship losses, either. There are ways. And, after all, it's far closer to the way the actual dudes had to press the actual fights.
I welcome all questions, including general questions not necessarily directly related to Admiral's mode, but in the context of playing in Admiral's mode.
What to build.
How to fight.
"And How Do I Deal with my Carriers?"
Etc., etc. I got answers. (And questions!)
So, if y'all out there want to play it (closest to) the way it had to be played on the seas -- and win -- this thread is for you. Fire Away.
Admiral Mode (AI+)
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
So far:
Japan: 232
France: 218 (after a horrendous defeat).
Italy: 217
Next shot, the British.
Japan: 232
France: 218 (after a horrendous defeat).
Italy: 217
Next shot, the British.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
British fleet is huge and powerful.
Prestige is 100 and it's almost 1930.
Scrap this game -- in disgrace.
Only 100 P by 1930? How Humiliatin'!
Give it another shot (AI+, Large Fleet, Admiral's Mode, Hardcore -- NO CHEATIN'.)
Prestige is 100 and it's almost 1930.
Scrap this game -- in disgrace.
Only 100 P by 1930? How Humiliatin'!
Give it another shot (AI+, Large Fleet, Admiral's Mode, Hardcore -- NO CHEATIN'.)
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
This time (Britain), much better. More aggressive. Final Prestige, 233.
Looking for a splendid little war near the end, but couldn't find one . . .
Looking for a splendid little war near the end, but couldn't find one . . .
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Germany is a serious challenge, prestigewise. You have to lay low in the (very) early game from France and from Britain for longer than that. You are unlikely to be lucky enough to snag either for an ally (historical enmities), but jump at it if it comes up, then go for war. But don't count on it.
You will likely be behind in prestige for at least the first decade or two and you will need to make that up later.
Go for an early naval treaty as well, if it comes up. You will lose nothing and the others will be hard hit. Then do a "breakout build", and to hell with the tonnage restrictions. Just don't complete them. Get rid of Caution as early as possible, and damn the prestige cost (it will cost you more if you don't). Also, if you can get a war with Spain going, that's great. But they usually don't want to fight you.
Do not go to war with France until your 8000-ton, 22k LCs are available (and maybe a 15kt, 23k AC or two. I did so (with Italy as ally). With those cruisers, you can fight yourself out from under the blockade and turn the tables. Take reparations, not colonies. (As Germany, If I want your colonies, I'll beat them out of you for the prestige, not gulp in more territory than I can manage after the war.)
Next target, Britain (preferably with an ally, but not strictly necessary). Again, you'll likely have to fight yourself out from under. Watch that unrest. You will be needing to Eat Victory for a while. But by the time you have reduced the British fleet to shreds, you will be well established for the midgame.
The Germans will have to press hostilities actively after getting big. You can take on just about anyone by the 1920s. Unless you are on the wrong end of the alliance structure, of course. But even after victories, you'll still likely be a bit low on prestige.
Take reparations rather than colonies. You can conquer colonies (prestige), but no need to make oneself unnecessarily vulnerable (or short of targets).
But the Germans have one serious advantage: Boosted missile technology. Be sure to prioritize that. Being first on scene with missiles -- well, you know about that already, I'm sure. And that's where you make up your prestige points.
You don't need too many carriers. Just enough to defend itself and your fleet (sub out a troop of attackers for fighter escorts). Perhaps five full groups of land aircraft, which should be plenty to shift around to other empty bases as the situation requires (they haven't).
At that point, your problem will be getting into enough wars to push that prestige over the top.
My current position: Oct. 1952, 166 Prestige, All Missiled Up, DDs mostly included. So on track, but not a lot of room to spare. I won't be able to afford a defeat the way I could (and foolishly did) with France.
You will likely be behind in prestige for at least the first decade or two and you will need to make that up later.
Go for an early naval treaty as well, if it comes up. You will lose nothing and the others will be hard hit. Then do a "breakout build", and to hell with the tonnage restrictions. Just don't complete them. Get rid of Caution as early as possible, and damn the prestige cost (it will cost you more if you don't). Also, if you can get a war with Spain going, that's great. But they usually don't want to fight you.
Do not go to war with France until your 8000-ton, 22k LCs are available (and maybe a 15kt, 23k AC or two. I did so (with Italy as ally). With those cruisers, you can fight yourself out from under the blockade and turn the tables. Take reparations, not colonies. (As Germany, If I want your colonies, I'll beat them out of you for the prestige, not gulp in more territory than I can manage after the war.)
Next target, Britain (preferably with an ally, but not strictly necessary). Again, you'll likely have to fight yourself out from under. Watch that unrest. You will be needing to Eat Victory for a while. But by the time you have reduced the British fleet to shreds, you will be well established for the midgame.
The Germans will have to press hostilities actively after getting big. You can take on just about anyone by the 1920s. Unless you are on the wrong end of the alliance structure, of course. But even after victories, you'll still likely be a bit low on prestige.
Take reparations rather than colonies. You can conquer colonies (prestige), but no need to make oneself unnecessarily vulnerable (or short of targets).
But the Germans have one serious advantage: Boosted missile technology. Be sure to prioritize that. Being first on scene with missiles -- well, you know about that already, I'm sure. And that's where you make up your prestige points.
You don't need too many carriers. Just enough to defend itself and your fleet (sub out a troop of attackers for fighter escorts). Perhaps five full groups of land aircraft, which should be plenty to shift around to other empty bases as the situation requires (they haven't).
At that point, your problem will be getting into enough wars to push that prestige over the top.
My current position: Oct. 1952, 166 Prestige, All Missiled Up, DDs mostly included. So on track, but not a lot of room to spare. I won't be able to afford a defeat the way I could (and foolishly did) with France.
Last edited by EvanJones on Tue Jul 30, 2024 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
So far, so good. Feb. 1956. After destroying France4 and Britain, Prestige is now 181. Almost at (desirable) war with the Beastly Sovs . . .
Steady, lads, steady . . .
For some reason, my war in 1950 was "split" and did not even show up on the history page (Bug?. But no matter, no loss of prestige.)
Steady, lads, steady . . .
For some reason, my war in 1950 was "split" and did not even show up on the history page (Bug?. But no matter, no loss of prestige.)
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
So far, so good.Aug. 1966, 205 prestige. No war with the Sovs, through no fault of our own, bu -- finally -- managed to get a war with Italy, bringing me up from 192. White peace (first war I didn't actually win), but many prestige victories. Just have to survive adversity for a couple more years, although I'd welcome a late war.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
And a final war with France leaves me with a final total of 214.
Germany has been the toughest, so far, not through complex management (like, say, France), but through a small start, which leaves a lot of ground to make up.
Germany has been the toughest, so far, not through complex management (like, say, France), but through a small start, which leaves a lot of ground to make up.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Giving AH various shots.
I have one game at 90 Prestige, Aug. 1924. So not ahead of the curve, but may make it, given luck and pluck. I took the arms limitation path, entering two treaties (including some dastardly breakout building) and conniving to pump up prestige while the treaties put a minus on tension. As I am confined to the Adriatic/Eastern Med., I am attempting to make do with land-based air and go a bit light on carriers. If I can survive the air age and, despite lower resources, break into the missile age fast enough, I might just make it.
I started another, going aggressive. Currently, Nov. 1907, 74 prestige. On tack. But can one stay there?
Ran up prestige and tensions to 1893, then a short bounce-off war with Italy/Russia (under blockade), 3 prestige battles, white peace, to reset tensions.
Then, starting 1899, a crushing 3-year war with Italy/Spain. 13 prestige victories, no defeats, fought out from under a long blockade and became the blockader. Downfall of both their gvts. gave me 10 reparations (i.e., +1000 to base economy).
Then another starvation war with Britain in 1907. White peace, so no reparations, but 6 prestige victories. Under total blockade, but the "Let Them Eat Victory" routine wound us up with zero unrest.
No prestige defeats, so far, all game. I owe it all to NIGHT FIGHTING, that Most Underrated Doctrine.
As to whether Austria Hungary can survive and prosper in the missile age remains to be seen. Can such a weak power acquire the badly needed early jump? Will be finding out the hard way.
I have one game at 90 Prestige, Aug. 1924. So not ahead of the curve, but may make it, given luck and pluck. I took the arms limitation path, entering two treaties (including some dastardly breakout building) and conniving to pump up prestige while the treaties put a minus on tension. As I am confined to the Adriatic/Eastern Med., I am attempting to make do with land-based air and go a bit light on carriers. If I can survive the air age and, despite lower resources, break into the missile age fast enough, I might just make it.
I started another, going aggressive. Currently, Nov. 1907, 74 prestige. On tack. But can one stay there?
Ran up prestige and tensions to 1893, then a short bounce-off war with Italy/Russia (under blockade), 3 prestige battles, white peace, to reset tensions.
Then, starting 1899, a crushing 3-year war with Italy/Spain. 13 prestige victories, no defeats, fought out from under a long blockade and became the blockader. Downfall of both their gvts. gave me 10 reparations (i.e., +1000 to base economy).
Then another starvation war with Britain in 1907. White peace, so no reparations, but 6 prestige victories. Under total blockade, but the "Let Them Eat Victory" routine wound us up with zero unrest.
No prestige defeats, so far, all game. I owe it all to NIGHT FIGHTING, that Most Underrated Doctrine.
As to whether Austria Hungary can survive and prosper in the missile age remains to be seen. Can such a weak power acquire the badly needed early jump? Will be finding out the hard way.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Well, I blew both Austria games. Was unable to get rid of the cursed Caution trait. But it is indeed possible to get 200 Prestige. Will start another and see how it goes.
But the game as Spain has put me at 189 Prestige in Jan 1964, which gives me a good shot at 200. I had no battle line. I built a rack of VERY heavy cruisers (10" guns) which has managed to hold off the BBs abd BCs thrown at me. They make great missile platforms and see more action than the BBs/BCs. I built only one BB, which I actually scrapped. More trouble than it was worth if alone.
But the game as Spain has put me at 189 Prestige in Jan 1964, which gives me a good shot at 200. I had no battle line. I built a rack of VERY heavy cruisers (10" guns) which has managed to hold off the BBs abd BCs thrown at me. They make great missile platforms and see more action than the BBs/BCs. I built only one BB, which I actually scrapped. More trouble than it was worth if alone.
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thedoctorking
- Posts: 2904
- Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
I don't think of prestige as "victory points", but instead as a resource to be used to get my government to do stuff I want. So if my prestige is in the 40s, I'm happy. I "spend" prestige points to keep my budget from going down, preserve the careers of talented officers, etc., on the various events. I think a higher prestige appears to give slightly better outcomes on those events.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Well, I'm in it for the Glory.
And it's a VERY warlike path resulting in many, many battles, which, after all, is the point of the game.
Besides, Prestige is what's listed at the end of the game. Not fleet size, not map paint, not economy. And it comes mostly from battle, and most of the rest from raising tensions.
I will spend or give up prestige options from time to time -- but ALWAYS in the greater pursuit of further prestige.
Yet part of what makes this game great is that there is flexibility for the players to pursue what they want, Glory (prestige), Swag (economy), Toys (fleet composition), Op Art (colonialism), whatever. But for me, it's Glory.
And it's a VERY warlike path resulting in many, many battles, which, after all, is the point of the game.
Besides, Prestige is what's listed at the end of the game. Not fleet size, not map paint, not economy. And it comes mostly from battle, and most of the rest from raising tensions.
I will spend or give up prestige options from time to time -- but ALWAYS in the greater pursuit of further prestige.
Yet part of what makes this game great is that there is flexibility for the players to pursue what they want, Glory (prestige), Swag (economy), Toys (fleet composition), Op Art (colonialism), whatever. But for me, it's Glory.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Almost afraid to report on the current game lest I jinx it. Spanish game is still pending. But started a new game as Austria Hungary.
Current Status: Austria-Hungary, Large, Admiral's Mode, AI Advantage, Hardcore (no cheating).
April 1940, 195 Prestige.
Fleet is in excellent shape, even after a truly massive amount of combat. Much of AH losses are between turns. (And, yes, I am keeping ASW and MS covered). All but one point of wins have gone to reparations, and my economic base is larger than Italy and France. (I passed up free prestige for a couple of 200-base economy bumps. Too many budget increases just lead to unrest. And your budget is ~5 to 10 times base.)
Basic strategy: Applies to Austria-Hungary.
No capital ships. The Caution Trait is too severe. If you get the option to unchicken out early on, go for it. Then you can pick and choose. But a BB/BC loss is too severe for Caution.
Built up 8000-ton CL squadron, built heaviest possible CA, starting at 13.5tkt. That got me through much, much warfare. I even had a minor defeat in one of the wars (10-point Prestige loss), but I had so many Prestige victories, it more than made up for it. Current fleet has 5 CAs, all over 20,000-tons, and by now I have sunk most of the BBs/BCs in the game, so, by 1940, I survived (and prospered) through the BB era. 3 Fleet carriers (emphasis CAP), could use another. Plenty of CL, all as big as possible (any survivors to be missled up ASAP. The Italian and French fleets are ground down.
Many wars, many with Germany as an ally, others on my own. Well, if I can't make and hold 200 Prestige with this one, it will be a real tale to tell.
What keeps your prestige in shape tends to keep your fleet in shape, even if it results in minor Prime Minister appointments and other amusements. Besides, officers are ephemeral, anyway. I thought caving the PM on appointments would be very distressing. But I hardly even notice.
The Dreaded Caution: I have had no opportunity to get rid of it. But there comes a point where one is not willing to sacrifice 10% of prestige, and that point is long past. I got nailed very early by losing a weak B, but at that point, it was only a 1 or 2 prestige loss. But at this point, if I get beat bad, I'd lose 20. So I must fight with reasonable caution, and can't afford the prestige buy-off.
Current Status: Austria-Hungary, Large, Admiral's Mode, AI Advantage, Hardcore (no cheating).
April 1940, 195 Prestige.
Fleet is in excellent shape, even after a truly massive amount of combat. Much of AH losses are between turns. (And, yes, I am keeping ASW and MS covered). All but one point of wins have gone to reparations, and my economic base is larger than Italy and France. (I passed up free prestige for a couple of 200-base economy bumps. Too many budget increases just lead to unrest. And your budget is ~5 to 10 times base.)
Basic strategy: Applies to Austria-Hungary.
No capital ships. The Caution Trait is too severe. If you get the option to unchicken out early on, go for it. Then you can pick and choose. But a BB/BC loss is too severe for Caution.
Built up 8000-ton CL squadron, built heaviest possible CA, starting at 13.5tkt. That got me through much, much warfare. I even had a minor defeat in one of the wars (10-point Prestige loss), but I had so many Prestige victories, it more than made up for it. Current fleet has 5 CAs, all over 20,000-tons, and by now I have sunk most of the BBs/BCs in the game, so, by 1940, I survived (and prospered) through the BB era. 3 Fleet carriers (emphasis CAP), could use another. Plenty of CL, all as big as possible (any survivors to be missled up ASAP. The Italian and French fleets are ground down.
Many wars, many with Germany as an ally, others on my own. Well, if I can't make and hold 200 Prestige with this one, it will be a real tale to tell.
What keeps your prestige in shape tends to keep your fleet in shape, even if it results in minor Prime Minister appointments and other amusements. Besides, officers are ephemeral, anyway. I thought caving the PM on appointments would be very distressing. But I hardly even notice.
The Dreaded Caution: I have had no opportunity to get rid of it. But there comes a point where one is not willing to sacrifice 10% of prestige, and that point is long past. I got nailed very early by losing a weak B, but at that point, it was only a 1 or 2 prestige loss. But at this point, if I get beat bad, I'd lose 20. So I must fight with reasonable caution, and can't afford the prestige buy-off.
Last edited by EvanJones on Tue Jul 30, 2024 5:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Well, about the only way to blow it would be to take on a half-dozen enemies at once. Which I did.
But I didn't blow it. Faithful Germany as my ally and first-phase All Missled Up against unmissiled enemies (Bri, Fra, Rus., Ita, USA, Japan). Took a much-welcomed white peace (negotiated hard), despite my massive advantage in Victory Points, when my unrest got up to 3. I an SO glad I had almost a hundred thou in my kick. It enabled me to get missles on almost everything all at once, and by the time the war was over, I had around five left. And now mostly replenished, postwar. Enormous convenience (not to say, survival) for the time-price of one measly not-measly ship. Think of it as Keynesian Economics -- as Keynes intended.
Aug. 1952, Prestige 246.
All turtled up in the Med amid friendly air bases. Invading and taking Malta (early on) has been extraordinarily useful. Add in Tunisia. Currently control the entire Eastern Med., including Egypt. Libya and Albania are still neutral. (I'd have more, but I'm mostly fighting under blockade.) That and four carriers have protected my fleet and themselves from enemy air. Attack enemy ships? Hardly ever. Just suppress that enemy air, gimme CAP, and trusty Admiral Mode will handle the ships . . .
But I didn't blow it. Faithful Germany as my ally and first-phase All Missled Up against unmissiled enemies (Bri, Fra, Rus., Ita, USA, Japan). Took a much-welcomed white peace (negotiated hard), despite my massive advantage in Victory Points, when my unrest got up to 3. I an SO glad I had almost a hundred thou in my kick. It enabled me to get missles on almost everything all at once, and by the time the war was over, I had around five left. And now mostly replenished, postwar. Enormous convenience (not to say, survival) for the time-price of one measly not-measly ship. Think of it as Keynesian Economics -- as Keynes intended.
Aug. 1952, Prestige 246.
All turtled up in the Med amid friendly air bases. Invading and taking Malta (early on) has been extraordinarily useful. Add in Tunisia. Currently control the entire Eastern Med., including Egypt. Libya and Albania are still neutral. (I'd have more, but I'm mostly fighting under blockade.) That and four carriers have protected my fleet and themselves from enemy air. Attack enemy ships? Hardly ever. Just suppress that enemy air, gimme CAP, and trusty Admiral Mode will handle the ships . . .
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Austria-Hungary game is finished. Wars with France and Italy. Lost a, CA bringing me down to four, plus a couple of CLs. But dealt out hideous casualties. (I did lose one -1 prestige battle, of two all game. But I more or less wiped out both the French and Italian fleets. Again.) The trick is to dodge the Cautious Trait by never building BBs/BCs. Which, with some skill, works for the lesser powers (the greater ones, not so much).
Final Score: 302 Prestige.
They can use up an entire flotilla of carriers' worth of names after all that.
Final Score: 302 Prestige.
They can use up an entire flotilla of carriers' worth of names after all that.
Last edited by EvanJones on Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
CHINA
Before finishing the Spain game, I wanted to try out China. Well, so far, so good. The strategy (as expected) is not unlike Japan. But reaching 200 Prestige by 1/70 will be more of a challenge.
So far, so good: Feb. 1919, 100 Prestige.
Wars with Spain (victory), Russia (Minor defeat but more than made up for during the war), Japan (white peace, many wins), and a solid win over France. Currently control most of NE and SE Asia, as might be expected. Fleet is bases on heavy CAs, heavy CLs, and many DDs. Minimum subs.
Before finishing the Spain game, I wanted to try out China. Well, so far, so good. The strategy (as expected) is not unlike Japan. But reaching 200 Prestige by 1/70 will be more of a challenge.
So far, so good: Feb. 1919, 100 Prestige.
Wars with Spain (victory), Russia (Minor defeat but more than made up for during the war), Japan (white peace, many wins), and a solid win over France. Currently control most of NE and SE Asia, as might be expected. Fleet is bases on heavy CAs, heavy CLs, and many DDs. Minimum subs.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Beat France twice again, then two slugfests with Russia, one win, one white peace. Then another nice long war to defeat France. China holds Then a nasty war with Britain/US with some real losses. And then another "long victory" over France, with Italy/Spain providing a blockade.
But I have done worse with my carriers than I ever have, so I had to replace losses and I am down to my last two large CAs, which I couldn't replace on account of carriers. I also managed to get my two largest partly built carriers confiscated by the USA. I am using two missled-up legacy CAs to fill the line, and it's a good thing you can put CLs in the same division as CAs unless you fail your command check.
Status: July, 1960, 215 Prestige. Chinese Prosperity Sphere.
But I have done worse with my carriers than I ever have, so I had to replace losses and I am down to my last two large CAs, which I couldn't replace on account of carriers. I also managed to get my two largest partly built carriers confiscated by the USA. I am using two missled-up legacy CAs to fill the line, and it's a good thing you can put CLs in the same division as CAs unless you fail your command check.
Status: July, 1960, 215 Prestige. Chinese Prosperity Sphere.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
A splendid little war with France, and two years of peace
Final score (China): Jan. 1970, 241 Prestige.
So, yes, China has many possibilities.
Final score (China): Jan. 1970, 241 Prestige.
So, yes, China has many possibilities.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
SPAIN.
Finished the game. A depressing peace gave way to a nice quick mostly peaceful war with Austria, then a year of peace.
Status: Spain
Final Score: 202 Prestige. Close shave, that, but we made it.
Being the player of ANY small nation does NOT mean you cannot pursue a missile-heavy strategy.
So, on to the last of the lot: Russia.
After that, I'll probably try Japan again. Haven't played that one since before I learned how to manage air properly. Also, it was under .46 rules, so I got no surprise attacks.
Finished the game. A depressing peace gave way to a nice quick mostly peaceful war with Austria, then a year of peace.
Status: Spain
Final Score: 202 Prestige. Close shave, that, but we made it.
Being the player of ANY small nation does NOT mean you cannot pursue a missile-heavy strategy.
So, on to the last of the lot: Russia.
After that, I'll probably try Japan again. Haven't played that one since before I learned how to manage air properly. Also, it was under .46 rules, so I got no surprise attacks.
Re: Admiral Mode (AI+)
Everyone says playing Russia is brutal.
Everyone is right. Austria, and even China are a snap by comparison (in terms of 200+ prestige at game end). All I could find out there was why not to play Russia, and nothing on actual Russian strategy.
So I am back to figuring out the correct balancing act. I considered going heavy in the east, but you can't pick off eastern colonies if you are under blockade. I am looking at sending all Bs (esp. if short range) to NE Asia immediately to fulfill requirements and intimidate Japan, while building quality cruisers. Tragically, Russia has only 7" guns, so that complicates the CA issue. Foreign service is also a pain.
You can't refuse the east flank. You could prolly take the occasional prestige hit beef from the Czar, but if you get in war with Japan, they will dominate the east and strip prestige from you every turn. Unsustainable. I found that out the hard way, and it was a shame because I had won in the west and considerably strengthened my economy Alliances become very important for Russia, and you will usually be fighting from under a blockade.
It's likely a path with a built-in slippery slope, but I will try to find it.
Everyone is right. Austria, and even China are a snap by comparison (in terms of 200+ prestige at game end). All I could find out there was why not to play Russia, and nothing on actual Russian strategy.
So I am back to figuring out the correct balancing act. I considered going heavy in the east, but you can't pick off eastern colonies if you are under blockade. I am looking at sending all Bs (esp. if short range) to NE Asia immediately to fulfill requirements and intimidate Japan, while building quality cruisers. Tragically, Russia has only 7" guns, so that complicates the CA issue. Foreign service is also a pain.
You can't refuse the east flank. You could prolly take the occasional prestige hit beef from the Czar, but if you get in war with Japan, they will dominate the east and strip prestige from you every turn. Unsustainable. I found that out the hard way, and it was a shame because I had won in the west and considerably strengthened my economy Alliances become very important for Russia, and you will usually be fighting from under a blockade.
It's likely a path with a built-in slippery slope, but I will try to find it.