Day of Infamy mpp not enough

[Nginear]

Playing a full Day of Infamy against Feinder, I am Allies. My turn just closed out July '42 (Turn 24). Main observation so far: not enough units on board, and "doing stuff" is too expensive.

MPPs need to be recalculated, either by having cheaper units or earning more. It takes an entire turn's worth of MPPs to buy a bomber, or multiple turns of saving for anyone else. It's August '42 and I have only managed to purchase 3 air units - 2 of which are maritime which are cheapest (none have been produced yet). Filling up those airfields is out of the question. I'm still only rocking the freebie fighter units!
At the rate it is going, I won't be able to even equal the size of Jap airforce until late '43 (Allies have 4 air units, Axis has 8 with 1 killed).

Between rebuilding the half dead free units, amphib/transport occasional unit, buy a land unit (because there were practically none to start), and upgrading, there is little spare mpp to actually build up an air force within the first 12 turns.

I tend to believe this is creating a lull in the game after the opening attacks due to
1) too few units on the map to have any real battles going on.
2) can't build up the #s to mount offensives. Using the 4 free US ground units (HQ, art, corp, tank), it would take a minimum 6 turns to assault Guadalcanal (reinforce, upgrade, transport tank closer, amphib, 2 maybe 3 turns travel). Some of those turns would leave no mpps for buying/operating air power, or building up in general - which makes a big lull. Most of the other turns around that are used rebuilding the half dead arriving units.

Consequently, an assault on Guad is still multiple turns away...without bomber support.

[Platoonist]

I mentioned in a post to Bill Runacre that southern California oil production (present in SC World at War) seems to be absent in this game. Those would earn a few more MPPs per turn for the United States anyway. He replied he might move some over. Sounds like it would be in a future patch. They'd probably have to 'ramp-up' to full production like they do in the other SC games.

California-oil.jpg (36.27 KiB) Viewed 829 times

The Los Angeles basin produced medium to heavy crude oil suitable for refining into fuel oil for ships, while fields in the San Joaquin Valley produced lighter crude oil rich in gasoline. Since there was no overland pipeline to Texas in 1941 this was the primary fuel source of US Navy in the Pacific supplemented by what tankers brought in from Venezuela and the Eastern US.

[Platoonist]

I was also thinking it might not be a bad idea if the US got a low-strength free bomber unit in northern Australia on turn two or three. This would represent the surviving bombers and aircraft of the Far East Air Force which retreated to Darwin after the December 7th Clark Field debacle. Obviously, if they started on Luzon on turn one they'd likely get overrun by invading Japanese.

[Feinder]

FWIW, those reading my AAR will say that my lack of activity is somewhat self-inflicted. I can't go into details. We're at the point at least where my conquest is as far as the historic empire. What that tells us? I have no idea if/that my allocation of MPPs is high/med/low.

[Platoonist]

It was an entertaining AAR while it lasted. Hopefully you can pick it up again at some point.

[Tanaka]

FWIW, those reading my AAR will say that my lack of activity is somewhat self-inflicted. I can't go into details. We're at the point at least where my conquest is as far as the historic empire. What that tells us? I have no idea if/that my allocation of MPPs is high/med/low.

You are ending your AAR? Ah that is a shame...

[Feinder]

"It was an entertaining AAR while it lasted."

Wait... What?! That was an awesome AAR! It was magnificent! Why was it ended?! It was a amazing piece of riveting dialog complete with beautiful maps and brilliant prose. Nobody told me it was over! What a shame...

One must not make such assumptions during the work-week Platoonist!

Game is still on! I have a turn to post, and a turn in my Inbox. Real-life takes time away from clobbering each other.

I should get caught this evening (Friday). But I gotta pay the mortgage first!

[Nginear]

Realized that the production delay is set to months (same as WaW), but when they shortened the turns to 10 days from 20, no wonder the game feels slower. It effectively is taking twice as long to get a unit.

This just confirms in my mind the need for changes to keep up the action. Either more units, more MPPs, quicker builds, or cheaper units. Something to increase the tempo.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Realized that the production delay is set to months (same as WaW), but when they shortened the turns to 10 days from 20, no wonder the game feels slower. It effectively is taking twice as long to get a unit.

This just confirms in my mind the need for changes to keep up the action. Either more units, more MPPs, quicker builds, or cheaper units. Something to increase the tempo.

I thought this too in repeated MP tests as Allies, but I believe increasing the tempo will drastically alter the game in a favorable way towards the Allies way too early. At least that's from my experience and opinion so far at least.

[Nowi]

I ran into some of the same problems before I realized I was approaching the game incorrectly as the Allies.

If you total all the Allied MMP it's already about 3X that of Japan. And when the Soviets come in at the end it's even more.

During the first 6 months of the war, the Allied position was desperate. It's modeled well.

I realized after my first two starts as the Allies, when I lacked units, that I was spending too much on R&D, a carryover from playing the other Strategic Command games. This is especially true for the Brits. My third start I curtailed almost all long-range development and prioritized on what I needed at the moment--ground units!

Also, realize that with one chit purchased for let's say lowering unit costs by 5%, for the Brits you have to spend something like 110 MMP. On average, that will take one year to gain a level, which will save you, given your pathetic income, 10-15 MMP. It will take you a half-year to recoup the expense, which means if you buy it early, not until mid-1943! MMP advances for the Brits give you a 15% jump, so about 30-35 MMP, but again you won't' see that until mid-1943 by which time the war can be lost.

My priorities for the Brits were replacements, new ground units, and an HQ. Same for the Aussies. Almost the same for the Chinese and Americans.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I ran into some of the same problems before I realized I was approaching the game incorrectly as the Allies.

If you total all the Allied MMP it's already about 3X that of Japan. And when the Soviets come in at the end it's even more.

During the first 6 months of the war, the Allied position was desperate. It's modeled well.

I realized after my first two starts as the Allies, when I lacked units, that I was spending too much on R&D, a carryover from playing the other Strategic Command games. This is especially true for the Brits. My third start I curtailed almost all long-range development and prioritized on what I needed at the moment--ground units!

Also, realize that with one chit purchased for let's say lowering unit costs by 5%, for the Brits you have to spend something like 110 MMP. On average, that will take one year to gain a level, which will save you, given your pathetic income, 10-15 MMP. It will take you a half-year to recoup the expense, which means if you buy it early, not until mid-1943! MMP advances for the Brits give you a 15% jump, so about 30-35 MMP, but again you won't' see that until mid-1943 by which time the war can be lost.

My priorities for the Brits were replacements, new ground units, and an HQ. Same for the Aussies. Almost the same for the Chinese and Americans.

Yep that's what I ran into in my first MP match as Allies when I went heavy with research right from the get go.. Mid to late 42 into 43, I was unit poor everywhere.

[Nginear]

[/quote]
Yep that's what I ran into in my first MP match as Allies when I went heavy with research right from the get go.. Mid to late 42 into 43, I was unit poor everywhere.
[/quote]

Money on Research isn't the problem for me. It's the fact that all units arrive half dead and take 10-30 turns for either side to build a unit. I'm not complaining that "there's not enough $ for the Allies" - I think both sides could use more for this focused map. By cutting the turns in half and not adjusting Prod delay, most turns there is relatively little going on. You really can't ramp up production either, if it takes 2-3 turns to save enough money to purchase a simple medium bomber unit. The game just feels like a trickle of units and a walking pace.

We have a large Pacific map, but unit numbers more on the WaW scale, not a large, focused map.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Yep that's what I ran into in my first MP match as Allies when I went heavy with research right from the get go.. Mid to late 42 into 43, I was unit poor everywhere.
[/quote]

Money on Research isn't the problem for me. It's the fact that all units arrive half dead and take 10-30 turns for either side to build a unit. I'm not complaining that "there's not enough $ for the Allies" - I think both sides could use more for this focused map. By cutting the turns in half and not adjusting Prod delay, most turns there is relatively little going on. You really can't ramp up production either, if it takes 2-3 turns to save enough money to purchase a simple medium bomber unit. The game just feels like a trickle of units and a walking pace.

We have a large Pacific map, but unit numbers more on the WaW scale, not a large, focused map.
[/quote]
Yeah the pacing and tempo is totally different here then WaW, especially when playing the Allies. Its hard to get used too, I agree. Playing the Japanese side is 'Action Jackson', that's for sure, in early game.
Well, time will tell post-beta if others also feel frustrated playing Allies here, as you are. I can understand that.

[BillRunacre]

Changing the rate at which new units arrive is something that can be experimented with. Whether it would be wise to change significantly, I am not sure.

If someone wants to give it a go then please do, it's pretty easy to mod this by changing the period to turns in the Production Delay setting in the Editor, and amending the number of turns to the desired amount.