About the possibility of open Source code

[Curtis Lemay]

In Erik's defense, the document I sent him was 84 pages, 5662 words, and 18MB (zipped). Let's give him some time with it.

[Lobster]

I think giving him 'some time' is probably not quite accurate. I believe it will take him three or four weeks to properly wrap his head around the whole thing unless he just browses it to get the general idea. He does have other things to do.

[Curtis Lemay]

A small announcement: The feature coding on the new update is finished. Still plenty of other things to get done, so still no launch date can be estimated, though.

Took 65 months to get to here!

[josant]

A small announcement: The feature coding on the new update is finished. Still plenty of other things to get done, so still no launch date can be estimated, though.

Took 65 months to get to here!

Great

[Lobster]

A public beta would help find bugs. I guess that's up to Erik?

[Curtis Lemay]

A public beta would help find bugs. I guess that's up to Erik?

He even suggested it himself here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p5182443

[rhinobones]

A public beta would help find bugs. I guess that's up to Erik?

He even suggested it himself here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p5182443

The question becomes, do you intend on posting a public beta?

Regards

[Curtis Lemay]

A public beta would help find bugs. I guess that's up to Erik?

He even suggested it himself here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p5182443

The question becomes, do you intend on posting a public beta?

Regards

Sounds like a good idea. But we're probably months away from that point. Might need scenario designers first.

[rhinobones]

Sounds like a good idea. But we're probably months away from that point. Might need scenario designers first.

Scenario designers? This makes it sound like the update is not compatible with existing TOAW IV scenarios. If it is compatible, the beta testers could make the necessary updates without the need for additional designers.

Is the update compatible with existing TOAW IV scenarios?

Regards

[Curtis Lemay]

Sounds like a good idea. But we're probably months away from that point. Might need scenario designers first.

Scenario designers? This makes it sound like the update is not compatible with existing TOAW IV scenarios. If it is compatible, the beta testers could make the necessary updates without the need for additional designers.

Is the update compatible with existing TOAW IV scenarios?

Regards

Of course it is. But existing scenarios won't have any of the new features (or just the most rudimentary minimuns). Scenarios need to be modified/designed to include them.

[Lobster]

Wouldn't that be part of the beta test?

[Curtis Lemay]

Wouldn't that be part of the beta test?

Well, it would be a beta test of the Editor. Beta test of the game itself needs scenarios with updated features included. So, Editor first, then game.

[Lobster]

Sorry I thought the game was the whole package as you would receive it on purchase. My bad.

[rhinobones]

Well, it would be a beta test of the Editor. Beta test of the game itself needs scenarios with updated features included. So, Editor first, then game.

Suggest that along with the update and scenario(s) you include a check list of the features need tested. The check list findings along with any additional comments can be returned to you to ensure the coding you find most important is thoroughly, and systematically, tested. May even uncover some unintended blips. No sense in testing 5 years of coding in a haphazard manner when a simple check list can guide the process.

Regards

[Curtis Lemay]

Sorry I thought the game was the whole package as you would receive it on purchase. My bad.

Words often have multiple meanings. If the word "game" is confusing, then come up with some other word for "playing a scenario". For the "whole package" is split into editng and playing. We need to brew up some scenarios with the new features before we can check out the "playing" part. That means the editor part will get used - and therefore checked out - first.

[Curtis Lemay]

Well, it would be a beta test of the Editor. Beta test of the game itself needs scenarios with updated features included. So, Editor first, then game.

Suggest that along with the update and scenario(s) you include a check list of the features need tested. The check list findings along with any additional comments can be returned to you to ensure the coding you find most important is thoroughly, and systematically, tested. May even uncover some unintended blips. No sense in testing 5 years of coding in a haphazard manner when a simple check list can guide the process.

Regards

Scenario designers will have their own desires for which new features are appropriate for their topics. I can't dictate to them what to do. But, with enough designers I expect everything to get touched on at least once.

[Lobster]

Sorry I thought the game was the whole package as you would receive it on purchase. My bad.

Words often have multiple meanings. If the word "game" is confusing, then come up with some other word for "playing a scenario". For the "whole package" is split into editng and playing. We need to brew up some scenarios with the new features before we can check out the "playing" part. That means the editor part will get used - and therefore checked out - first.

Can't possibly separate the two since designers will most certainly play a scenario to see if it works as intended so they can correct any parts that don't. It's a process. But if you want to call it editor testing we'll call it that boss.

[rhinobones]

Scenario designers will have their own desires for which new features are appropriate for their topics. I can't dictate to them what to do. But, with enough designers I expect everything to get touched on at least once.

Rubish. As the author of the update, you have every right to provide the guidance and direction for testing. After 5 years of effort, I thought you would be keenly interested in how testing is accomplished and the specific features to be examined. As is you have absolutely no assurance that everything will be tested or documented as you expect. You need to do three things:
1. A baseline scenario provided by you that has the changes incorporated. This gives all beta testers a common article to test.
2. A second different non-updated scenario provided by you for the beta testers to update. This gives all testers a common starting point and hopefully arrive at similar outcomes.
3. A test plan which defines the features to be tested, how the results should be reported and the testing start/stop dates. This gives the testers test objectives and guidance on the response format most compatible to your input requirements.

Considering all the work you've put in, adding the above should be a simple task with significant added value. You can also be assured that after such an extended period the testers will update multiple scenarios and provided data on far more than your baseline scenarios.

I’m really amazed that you are being so resistive on conducting the beta test in a more structured process. You need a plan. You didn’t have a plan for the update and that’s probably a big reason why a 3-month job turned into a 65-month marathon. Hope you reconsider and not let this opportunity to be a leader go to waste.

Regards

[Curtis Lemay]

Scenario designers will have their own desires for which new features are appropriate for their topics. I can't dictate to them what to do. But, with enough designers I expect everything to get touched on at least once.

Rubish. As the author of the update, you have every right to provide the guidance and direction for testing. After 5 years of effort, I thought you would be keenly interested in how testing is accomplished and the specific features to be examined. As is you have absolutely no assurance that everything will be tested or documented as you expect. You need to do three things:
1. A baseline scenario provided by you that has the changes incorporated. This gives all beta testers a common article to test.
2. A second different non-updated scenario provided by you for the beta testers to update. This gives all testers a common starting point and hopefully arrive at similar outcomes.
3. A test plan which defines the features to be tested, how the results should be reported and the testing start/stop dates. This gives the testers test objectives and guidance on the response format most compatible to your input requirements.

Considering all the work you've put in, adding the above should be a simple task with significant added value. You can also be assured that after such an extended period the testers will update multiple scenarios and provided data on far more than your baseline scenarios.

I’m really amazed that you are being so resistive on conducting the beta test in a more structured process. You need a plan. You didn’t have a plan for the update and that’s probably a big reason why a 3-month job turned into a 65-month marathon. Hope you reconsider and not let this opportunity to be a leader go to waste.

Regards

I already have a couple of scenarios so modified and will modify even more of mine. (Really looking forward to it, in fact!) But, again, I can't dictate to other designers what to do. Only certain of the new features will be appropriate for some scenarios. Those features need the right topics. I want to attract designers to a process that will clearly benefit their scenarios - not frog-march them into something they object to.

And the update was rigourously planned. It's was just impossible to foresee what would be required till I got into the middle of it.

[larryfulkerson]

Bob,
I really appreciate your dedication and hard work. I'm familiar with the travails of coding and can appreciate your skills. I myself like to program using the principle of "Least Astonishment". I need to code to be readable because I frequently find myself wondering what a section of code really does. Sometimes comments are a lifesaver.

And I'm right in the middle of testing the new features and it's a blast to see your changes make things much better. It's not the same game, it's significantly different in subtle ways. Difficult to explain though. You have to be there. I like it a lot. Once or twice an hour the mouse clicks have no effect and I have to reload TOAW completely from the start, rebooting as it were. Other than that I never have a problem.

hiker falls.gif (2.31 MiB) Viewed 736 times