The Good Old Days

[pz501]

For me at least.

I remember back in the mid 1970's and early 1980's playing the SPI games "War in The East", "War in The West", and War in Europe" while stationed in (then) West Germany as two player and three player games. Those were huge but simple "monsters" with rules that could be read and absorbed pretty easily, and even taught to a new player pretty quickly. No attempt or need to try and keep track of individual generals, aircraft, tanks, or pilots. Just pure strategy with the most complex things being the Soviet and German war production routines. Politics could be played with all sorts of deal making (and double crossing) between players. All in all (for me) a ton of fun, and probably the height of my wargaming enjoyment.

Years have gone by, and lack of space along with lack of opponents caused me to sell off my physical copies. Every now and then a fit of nostalgia would strike me, but looking at the going used SPI prices or even the "new" Decision Games version would jolt me back to reality. Besides, who to play with and how? There was of course Vassal, but mastering the software system always seemed like work to me.

Then Decision Games published a computer version of War in Europe that enforced the rules for all of the various versions, and even allowed some modding. Play was via email for 2 or 3 Players. I was overjoyed! A dedicated mailing list existed full of healthy arguments, modding discussions, and playing tips. DG had an online forum that did the same things, but sadly both the mail list and the forum have long been gone along with what was a pretty sizable player base.

I still have my DG computer copy with the last patch and re-install it from time to time (it works on Win 10 and 11) and just tinker with playing all sides while messing with variations and graphics. There is a version for TOAW IV, but even though the designer made a great effort, the TOAW game system itself doesn't really support things like production, and honestly, I dislike the TOAW timed or phased combat pulses.

So, here I am 50 years or so later with no opponents, but a lot of good memories. Those were the days....

I wonder if anyone else out there has had a similar experience with their personal favorite game or game system?
It could make for an interesting discussion among old Grognards.

[Kuokkanen]

I'm younger than you and didn't get into analog war gaming before turning to adult age. First for me was BattleTech. While game was first released in 1984 (1st edition named BattleDroids), I didn't get anything physical until 2004 or so, starting with a rule book Classic BattleTech Master Rules Revised Edition. In 2007 or so BattleTech underwent some kind of revival that started with a new rule book: Total Warfare. I bought it along with few Map Sets, made handcrafted paper counters, and went over to a local game convention. New game boxes containing limited rules and plastic miniature models became available, I bought one, and brought those to game conventions. Along the way loads of books and game materials started to accumulate that I brought to the conventions to show off. Along I dragged a desktop computer (later laptop), printer, and LCD TV, and played videos from video games. Got some attention, and players too. But as I got older, it started to get weary to drag it all along. I still go to conventions (with less or no game materials) and play video game adaptations.

IMG_0061.JPG (2.51 MiB) Viewed 648 times

[Zovs]

I was a beta tester for CWIE2, and also one of the "lead" testers, setup folks and did the counter artwork for that game. My good friend Steve sadly passed away about five years ago and I have not been able to really play it with any heart since then. Plus a bit of burn out I guess you could say.

There is a thriving and active community of board wargamers that still play these old classics using mainly VASSAL.

WITE is still one of my sweet spots in my memories from SPI (Breakthrough & Pursuit being another) that I used to play and love. I made some changes to the WITE VASSAL module and I have also made some tweaks to some other SPI ones.

I am mainly playing ASL again on VASL and loving it. Its nice to read the rules and interpret them yourself instead of having the computer do it for you. That being said CWIE2 really made the production portion of the game much more playable I think.

I have the latest version (I don't know if DG ever sent it off/out to the public) from the developer stashed away.

Its version 1.2.18

Maybe DG released it I don't know, they sure make it hard to find anything on there site.

[emily098]

Absolutely agree! Those SPI games were true classics! I remember playing "War in the East" with my dad when I was a kid, he always took Russia and I went with Germany, haha. The rules were simple, but the gameplay could get really intense. Plus, the player negotiations added so much flavor – I remember tricking France into joining my side one game!

Recently I've been thinking about revisiting these games too, but the secondary market prices are brutal. And I just can't seem to get into Vassal. Such a shame that the computer version's community from Decision Games fell apart.

Maybe it really would be worth creating a new communication channel for fans of these games? What do you think?
remontowanie.waw.pl

[Zovs]

Absolutely agree! Those SPI games were true classics! I remember playing "War in the East" with my dad when I was a kid, he always took Russia and I went with Germany, haha. The rules were simple, but the gameplay could get really intense. Plus, the player negotiations added so much flavor – I remember tricking France into joining my side one game!

Recently I've been thinking about revisiting these games too, but the secondary market prices are brutal. And I just can't seem to get into Vassal. Such a shame that the computer version's community from Decision Games fell apart.

Maybe it really would be worth creating a new communication channel for fans of these games? What do you think?
remontowanie.waw.pl

For me, honestly VASSAL is the only way to play the games anymore. No worry about cats or kids knocking stuff over, or leaving your game setup out in the garage for 18 months only to have the map grow mold (my FITE/SE game, lol).

The market is harsh, but if you shop and wait you can pick up some good deals.

[Zovs]

This is the modified VASSAL module I am using for WITE 1st Edition, I am using a WITE 1st edition map a friend of mine created and then I made the counters using the art and color from SPI's 2nd Edition of WITE/WIE.



First image is a little hard to see.

This is a very rudimentary setup but hopefully you can get the gist of it all.

[pz501]

I was a beta tester for CWIE2, and also one of the "lead" testers, setup folks and did the counter artwork for that game. My good friend Steve sadly passed away about five years ago and I have not been able to really play it with any heart since then. Plus a bit of burn out I guess you could say.

There is a thriving and active community of board wargamers that still play these old classics using mainly VASSAL.

WITE is still one of my sweet spots in my memories from SPI (Breakthrough & Pursuit being another) that I used to play and love. I made some changes to the WITE VASSAL module and I have also made some tweaks to some other SPI ones.

I am mainly playing ASL again on VASL and loving it. Its nice to read the rules and interpret them yourself instead of having the computer do it for you. That being said CWIE2 really made the production portion of the game much more playable I think.

I have the latest version (I don't know if DG ever sent it off/out to the public) from the developer stashed away.

Its version 1.2.18

Maybe DG released it I don't know, they sure make it hard to find anything on there site.

Glad to hear from you my friend! I don't think we've talked since both of us joined the ACW club (I'm still answering muster calls but not actively playing) some little while back.

If version 1.2.18 of CWiE is the one that fixed the problem where Vichy French couldn't be converted to Free French, that's the one I have also. A real pity DG seems to have quit on it, and the future appears cloudy for their proposed new board version.

Looks like there are three of us WiE grognards here, so maybe someday we can get a PBEM going. Who knows? Just last night I was playing around with the CWiE editor and having a go at trying to add in improved French 1940 units as suggested over at Boardgame Geek. Didn't get far (have to get used to the editor again), but I'm having fun.

I'm rusty as hell with WiE, but willing to get involved playing again.

Anyway, great to hear from you!

[pz501]

Absolutely agree! Those SPI games were true classics! I remember playing "War in the East" with my dad when I was a kid, he always took Russia and I went with Germany, haha. The rules were simple, but the gameplay could get really intense. Plus, the player negotiations added so much flavor – I remember tricking France into joining my side one game!

Recently I've been thinking about revisiting these games too, but the secondary market prices are brutal. And I just can't seem to get into Vassal. Such a shame that the computer version's community from Decision Games fell apart.

Maybe it really would be worth creating a new communication channel for fans of these games? What do you think?
remontowanie.waw.pl

I have the same issue with Vassal, but I will admit it is intriguing. Maybe I should give it a look again.

It is a real shame DG took their forums down. I remember things could get a little hot over there but never too outrageous. I think the mailing list discontinued because the owner passed away, but I could be wrong. Using the Wayback Machine it's possible still to read some of the list, but it calls for a lot of effort.

I'm open to a communication channel for fans, but someone who is more savvy than me with things like that would have to take the initiative I'm afraid. Right now I'm just happy to be talking with people about these games even for just a little bit.

[Zovs]

I was a beta tester for CWIE2, and also one of the "lead" testers, setup folks and did the counter artwork for that game. My good friend Steve sadly passed away about five years ago and I have not been able to really play it with any heart since then. Plus a bit of burn out I guess you could say.

There is a thriving and active community of board wargamers that still play these old classics using mainly VASSAL.

WITE is still one of my sweet spots in my memories from SPI (Breakthrough & Pursuit being another) that I used to play and love. I made some changes to the WITE VASSAL module and I have also made some tweaks to some other SPI ones.

I am mainly playing ASL again on VASL and loving it. Its nice to read the rules and interpret them yourself instead of having the computer do it for you. That being said CWIE2 really made the production portion of the game much more playable I think.

I have the latest version (I don't know if DG ever sent it off/out to the public) from the developer stashed away.

Its version 1.2.18

Maybe DG released it I don't know, they sure make it hard to find anything on there site.

Glad to hear from you my friend! I don't think we've talked since both of us joined the ACW club (I'm still answering muster calls but not actively playing) some little while back.

If version 1.2.18 of CWiE is the one that fixed the problem where Vichy French couldn't be converted to Free French, that's the one I have also. A real pity DG seems to have quit on it, and the future appears cloudy for their proposed new board version.

Looks like there are three of us WiE grognards here, so maybe someday we can get a PBEM going. Who knows? Just last night I was playing around with the CWiE editor and having a go at trying to add in improved French 1940 units as suggested over at Boardgame Geek. Didn't get far (have to get used to the editor again), but I'm having fun.

I'm rusty as hell with WiE, but willing to get involved playing again.

Anyway, great to hear from you!

Thanks for reminding me to go to Muster.

Keep me in mind if CWIE2 kicks up.

If you have the manual (can't recall if it both shipped with the game-hard copy-and also came with the pdf-soft copy) but I have both, although I have not leafed through the hard copy in a long while. There is an editor section in the pdf which I am sure you have already read up on. I let Steve do most of that work, he worked with Karl to get it to where it currently is at. Ha ha, my name is in the PDF version lol...

Was looking at my storage and besides the pdf manual I see I have some version of Steve's unfinished 1939 WIE scenario but per the notes I am missing the correct maps.

They are called: FCJv7

If anyone has those please let me know.

1.2.18 states the following:

Code: Select all

Build 1.2.18
------------
Changes Made:
-------------
* Completely new resolution routine in Strategic Bombing - Axis player now chooses Interceptor
priorities during reaid resolution rather than during interceptor allocation
* For custom maps, naval transport between Russian 'White Sea' ports is now valid for any port (not just
Murmansk and Archangel)
* Can now add Named features to custom maps with standard editor
* More messages added to sea movement routine to better explain why certain moves are illegal
* Editor - Changing values in a Unit Template will now automatically update all current in-game Units to
match the new values
* If FOW is active then the Air point disply showing each sides forces on each front is not available
Bugs Fixed :
------------
* Axis units trying to use the 'can always move one hex' rule are unable to enter hexes containing Soviet
ACs
* Soviet ACs in some games are incorrectly marked as 'can stack with enemy', which should only apply to
Partisans.
* Undo transit move, unit is left with 35 movement pts and can then do a normal move of 35 pts.
* When determining if there is a sufficent combat ratio to allow Artillery to join the attack, defending
units incorrectly use their 'attack' value (only affects units with differing atk/def)
* Neutral Italian units can move if "Board (SPI)" option is selected at start; cannot move if it is not
selected. This is the opposite of the rule.
* Sweden never activates as an Axis nation even if Pol Pts reach 70.
* Vichy Units cannot convert to Free French after Axis DoW of Vichy France
* French NTP not available to Allies after Axis DoW of Vichy France.
* Placement hexes for Ukrainian Separatist units missing from "War in the East" campaigns
* can convert UK units from Brigade to Arm Div in excess of Arm Div build limits
* Russian Partisan cadre unit in hex allows German to trace supply though Soviet ZoC in that hex
* Russian air range incorrectly set on turn of Axis attack, can affect Axis air interception of Soviet naval
transport
* German player can build Fort markers in hexes in minor supply. Should be major supply only.
* Custom games with more than 750 unit templates can fail in production phase
* Incorrect handling of conversion to Free French in some games
* Hex in German ZoC and under German Air Int at start of German invasion of France should be +4 mps,
not +2, as special rule is active
* Allies have recaptured Paris while Vichy is still active, but German can still loot France
* If playing custom game with the 'Axis Target Airfields' rule off, the Soviet player will not receive any
APs after an Axis DoW
* Tangiers cannot be Amph assaulted in Snow turns - should be legal to do so (it is part of North Africa)
* Allies cannot build new SW bombers in late-war campaigns. Also, available SW Bombers build counts
are incorrectly displayed in these games
* Rail movement of units that start the phase stacked with flak units will sometimes not allow the move
to end in a hex containing flak units

[Zovs]

Absolutely agree! Those SPI games were true classics! I remember playing "War in the East" with my dad when I was a kid, he always took Russia and I went with Germany, haha. The rules were simple, but the gameplay could get really intense. Plus, the player negotiations added so much flavor – I remember tricking France into joining my side one game!

Recently I've been thinking about revisiting these games too, but the secondary market prices are brutal. And I just can't seem to get into Vassal. Such a shame that the computer version's community from Decision Games fell apart.

Maybe it really would be worth creating a new communication channel for fans of these games? What do you think?
remontowanie.waw.pl

I have the same issue with Vassal, but I will admit it is intriguing. Maybe I should give it a look again.

It is a real shame DG took their forums down. I remember things could get a little hot over there but never too outrageous. I think the mailing list discontinued because the owner passed away, but I could be wrong. Using the Wayback Machine it's possible still to read some of the list, but it calls for a lot of effort.

I'm open to a communication channel for fans, but someone who is more savvy than me with things like that would have to take the initiative I'm afraid. Right now I'm just happy to be talking with people about these games even for just a little bit.

Correct after Steve passed away in 2017, so did the EurMailingList.

[pz501]

[/quote]

Thanks for reminding me to go to Muster.

Keep me in mind if CWIE2 kicks up.

If you have the manual (can't recall if it both shipped with the game-hard copy-and also came with the pdf-soft copy) but I have both, although I have not leafed through the hard copy in a long while. There is an editor section in the pdf which I am sure you have already read up on. I let Steve do most of that work, he worked with Karl to get it to where it currently is at. Ha ha, my name is in the PDF version lol...

Was looking at my storage and besides the pdf manual I see I have some version of Steve's unfinished 1939 WIE scenario but per the notes I am missing the correct maps.

They are called: FCJv7

If anyone has those please let me know.

1.2.18 states the following:

Code: Select all

Build 1.2.18
------------
Changes Made:
-------------
* Completely new resolution routine in Strategic Bombing - Axis player now chooses Interceptor
priorities during reaid resolution rather than during interceptor allocation
* For custom maps, naval transport between Russian 'White Sea' ports is now valid for any port (not just
Murmansk and Archangel)
* Can now add Named features to custom maps with standard editor
* More messages added to sea movement routine to better explain why certain moves are illegal
* Editor - Changing values in a Unit Template will now automatically update all current in-game Units to
match the new values
* If FOW is active then the Air point disply showing each sides forces on each front is not available
Bugs Fixed :
------------
* Axis units trying to use the 'can always move one hex' rule are unable to enter hexes containing Soviet
ACs
* Soviet ACs in some games are incorrectly marked as 'can stack with enemy', which should only apply to
Partisans.
* Undo transit move, unit is left with 35 movement pts and can then do a normal move of 35 pts.
* When determining if there is a sufficent combat ratio to allow Artillery to join the attack, defending
units incorrectly use their 'attack' value (only affects units with differing atk/def)
* Neutral Italian units can move if "Board (SPI)" option is selected at start; cannot move if it is not
selected. This is the opposite of the rule.
* Sweden never activates as an Axis nation even if Pol Pts reach 70.
* Vichy Units cannot convert to Free French after Axis DoW of Vichy France
* French NTP not available to Allies after Axis DoW of Vichy France.
* Placement hexes for Ukrainian Separatist units missing from "War in the East" campaigns
* can convert UK units from Brigade to Arm Div in excess of Arm Div build limits
* Russian Partisan cadre unit in hex allows German to trace supply though Soviet ZoC in that hex
* Russian air range incorrectly set on turn of Axis attack, can affect Axis air interception of Soviet naval
transport
* German player can build Fort markers in hexes in minor supply. Should be major supply only.
* Custom games with more than 750 unit templates can fail in production phase
* Incorrect handling of conversion to Free French in some games
* Hex in German ZoC and under German Air Int at start of German invasion of France should be +4 mps,
not +2, as special rule is active
* Allies have recaptured Paris while Vichy is still active, but German can still loot France
* If playing custom game with the 'Axis Target Airfields' rule off, the Soviet player will not receive any
APs after an Axis DoW
* Tangiers cannot be Amph assaulted in Snow turns - should be legal to do so (it is part of North Africa)
* Allies cannot build new SW bombers in late-war campaigns. Also, available SW Bombers build counts
are incorrectly displayed in these games
* Rail movement of units that start the phase stacked with flak units will sometimes not allow the move
to end in a hex containing flak units

[/quote]
I fired up the game and confirmed that I do have 1.2.18 installed so that's good.

On my external drive I do have a file named "edited 12-10-07 Standard.map'" it's 755,018 bytes in size. Could this be what you're looking for? Check your PM's.

[simovitch]

I remember seeing WITE in full glory tacked up on the wall in a game store in Berkeley in the mid '70's while I was pouring over the contents of "Atlantic Wall" in the isles. I started playing AH's "Midway" before I was 10 but didn't really have a clue what I was doing when it came to writing orders. By the mid seventies my brother and I were buying and playing every Avalon Hill wargame that was coming out on the shelves of the local Toys-R-Us. 1st edition Battle of the Bulge sticks out as the one we played the most.

Just this year I had my first foray into playing FPS games (War of Rights and Hell let loose) in online servers with a headset and mic. Most of the guys I run into can't believe I'm in my 60's and playing this stuff. Things have changes a lot since I was their age.

[Zovs]

I remember seeing WITE in full glory tacked up on the wall in a game store in Berkeley in the mid '70's while I was pouring over the contents of "Atlantic Wall" in the isles. I started playing AH's "Midway" before I was 10 but didn't really have a clue what I was doing when it came to writing orders. By the mid seventies my brother and I were buying and playing every Avalon Hill wargame that was coming out on the shelves of the local Toys-R-Us. 1st edition Battle of the Bulge sticks out as the one we played the most.

Just this year I had my first foray into playing FPS games (War of Rights and Hell let loose) in online servers with a headset and mic. Most of the guys I run into can't believe I'm in my 60's and playing this stuff. Things have changes a lot since I was their age.

Thats a great post!

Back in the 70s my mom used to drop me off at the local hobby stores and all these dudes would be playing something from either SPI or AH and I'd get to join in with someone always willing to play and teach you their favorite game. When I was like 13 or 14 she took me to UW and I was playing with college kids and professors, lol, man times have changed, I suppose the kids now a days uses PCs for this but it was something back then with paper maps and cardboard counters man.

[Lobster]

I recall playing DNO with three buddies and the Great Tea Flood of 1974. Fortunately the map was under a plastic sheet and quick action saved the counters from much soaking.

[Platoonist]

No worry about cats

That I don't miss.

Catastrophe.jpg (24.97 KiB) Viewed 436 times

[Kuokkanen]

I remember seeing WITE in full glory tacked up on the wall in a game store in Berkeley in the mid '70's while I was pouring over the contents of "Atlantic Wall" in the isles. I started playing AH's "Midway" before I was 10 but didn't really have a clue what I was doing when it came to writing orders. By the mid seventies my brother and I were buying and playing every Avalon Hill wargame that was coming out on the shelves of the local Toys-R-Us. 1st edition Battle of the Bulge sticks out as the one we played the most.

Just this year I had my first foray into playing FPS games (War of Rights and Hell let loose) in online servers with a headset and mic. Most of the guys I run into can't believe I'm in my 60's and playing this stuff. Things have changes a lot since I was their age.

Thats a great post!

Back in the 70s my mom used to drop me off at the local hobby stores and all these dudes would be playing something from either SPI or AH and I'd get to join in with someone always willing to play and teach you their favorite game. When I was like 13 or 14 she took me to UW and I was playing with college kids and professors, lol, man times have changed, I suppose the kids now a days uses PCs for this but it was something back then with paper maps and cardboard counters man.

They don't play with PCs in game stores. They play Warhammer miniature games, Magic the Gathering, and the like.