[Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

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newageofpower
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[Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by newageofpower »

Very WIP mod, attempting to improve balance/realism/fun. Inspired by Pymous and Catasteroid.

Installation:
Extract the attached zip into your Shadow Empire\shadowscenarios folder (should have NModLiteV#.se1evlib). Start Shadow Empire. From main menu -> modlib picker ensure there is a checkmark next to NMod.

No guarantee on compatibility with any mod that touches the same files.

v2 Design & Changelog:
-Halved Ablative bonus
Even with halved ablative, Charged Gauss still outcompetes Laser in effective firepower. At there's now a reason to bring Liquid Armor against vehicle weapons.

-Fixes unit-energy storage optimization logic
-Doubled Nuclear Engine IP cost

-+1 Nuclear Vehicle Pop Divisor: Automation + Nuclear Engine + Energy Weapon
-+1 Infantry Pop Divisor: Automation + Power Armor
Incorporating automation to improve maintenance/logistical/crew manpower need is already a thing, and Shadow Empire does feature infantry droideka.

-Temporary Envirosuit + Personal Shield gfx (that is, no shielded image, just imagine it) for Motorbike
Still haven't had time for gfx - need to transplant the light tank's sideskirts onto apc & mechqmg, medium tank onto mech arty.

And of course, tonight's highlight...

New Formations Swapped in:
Image
Hat tip to mroyer

Formation Sample (Brigade)
| Pure (Walker, Heavy Walker, Rocket, Missile)
2 points in HQ section
5 points per battalion

| Vanguard Light Armor
1 L. Tank + 1 M. Quad in HQ
3 L. Tank + 3 M. Quad per battalion

| Armored Mechanized Artillery
1 M. Armor + 1 SPG in HQ
3 M. Armor + 3 SPG per battalion

| Combined Walker
1 Walker + 1 Heavy Walker in HQ
3 Walker + 3 Heavy Walker per battalion

| Bastion
2 L. Infantry in HQ
1 L. Infantry + 2 MG Emplacement + 2 Turret Emplacement per battalion.

Along with this, I've increased BP/Customization Point efficiency to 800%, but reduced the BP inefficiency falloff from 100 to 10. The idea is to make it plausible to customize in 3-4 turns fairly early, so that poor President fibol can strap AT guns onto his infantry before the Kaiju eat his capital city, while late game you can't trivially customize multiple times per turn every turn.

Let me know if this needs further adjustment.

v1 Design & Changelog:
| Nukes Disabled
Different from Pymous and Catasteroid's implementation, I've set a techlevel >= 12 requirement for Micro-Nuke RPG, Tactical Nuke Grenade Launcher, Atomic Missile Launcher and ICBM, which is currently impossible to reach.

Whilst a more elegant solution, it leaves most nuke techs pointless and might get undone should Vic add another page to the techtree.

| New Radiation Sources
However, Rads are a cool mechanic and removing them entirely would suck. Luckily, many sci-fi plasma & beam weapons plausibly generate radiation, i.e. from micro-fusion events on impact.
-Plasma and Beam Weapons generate Radiation depending on size, maxing out with 100 Rads from Plasma Missile (half of smallest Atomic Launcher, twice as much as Tactical Nuclear Grenade)

| New Radioactive Resource Sink
Radioactives are the new HiTech
-Plasma & Beam Weapons also cost Radioactives based on size
-Tripled Nuclear Engine Radioactive cost

| Beam Buff
With these changes Beams are now a heavier, more expensive, lower penetration, but equal firepower & multi-attack alternative to Heavy/V Heavy Plasma guns.
-Beam Gun has 6000 firepower, 2 attacks. Cost increased to 20 Rare Metals, 18 High Tech, 4 Radioactives, 100 IP
-Combined Beam has 7500 firepower, 3 attacks. Now costs 30 Rare Metals, 27 High Tech, 5 Radioactives, 125 IP

| Size Adjustments
Actual IRL buggies are small & light, as in can be carried by a few dudes tiny. They're smaller and lighter than even utility trucks like the HMMWV
Almost all IRL SPGs are smaller/lighter than MBTs, same with Assault Guns, MRL etc.
Tank Destroyers were almost always smaller/lighter than the tank chassis they were based off of
MG (or even twin autocannon) turrets are significantly more compact than a 100mm+ gun, and this will result in a smaller fortification for an equal field of fire/protective level.
-Motorbike infantry & Recon buggy to Size 1 (2 after base, same as truck)
-Automated MG to Size 3 (4 after adjustment)
-SPG, Assault Gun, Walker, Rocket Launcher, Size 5 (6 after +1 base, but 1 less than medium tank)
-Tank Destroyer, Heavy Walker to size 7 (8 after +1 base)
-Mobile Shield to Size 8

| Other Changes
I remember reading the reason Light Tanks got nerfed was that 100mm armor at Tech Level 2 was oppressive, but Light Tanks already fall off late game even before being nerfed to 50mm armor.
-100mm armor now TL 3
-100mm armor now allowed for Light Tanks

Couldn't figure out how to trigger increased storage for electric engines, but shocked it wasn't already in the game.
-Energy Storage Optimization increases Ammo Capacity for units with energy weapons, by up to 50% at 100% Optimization
-When Electric Motors are researched, Diesel Engines reduce energy weapons energy consumption by 20%
-Nuclear Engines reduce energy weapons energy consumption by 99%

As technology advances the amount of crew and maintenance personnel needed for a given weight of vehicle decreases. Unfortunately the way manpower rebate is finnicky, meaning minimum divisor increments are 1,2,3 etc
-With Automated Turrets, Robot Soldiers & Industrial Robotization Light Tanks and Mech QMG gain +1 population divisor, or manpower rebate of 50%
-Recon buggies use same rebate as trucks

-Allow Envirosuit and Personal Shield Generator for Jetpack & Motorbike Infantry
-APCs, Mechanized QMG, SPG are also affected by Side Skirt bonus

-Wide Area Shield generators now classified as Automated
-Plasma MG/Quad Plasma now have effectively 100mm penetration
-Heavy Combat Armor, Battledress and Advanced Battledress nerfed to 55/70/85mm respectively
-Heavy Combat Armor costs increased by +1 Machinery
-Battledress costs increased by +1 HiTech
-Heavy Battledress cost increased by +1 HiTech, +1 Radioactive

Heavy Battledress now has its own power source

| AI Choice Rationalization
AI does dumb things like putting HV guns on Assault Gun chassis and Howitzers on TD chassis... just don't allow it, duh
-Disallow HV guns, Laser/Plasma for Assault Guns
-Disallow Howitzers for Tank Destroyer

| Artillery Rebalance:
IRL towed guns are known to be/have been proven quite vulnerable to counterbattery
-Towed guns receive 33% HP malus

IRL the largest SPG (that wasn't a low velocity mortar carrier) was 203mm and the largest towed gun was 240mm.
-300mm Howitzer disallowed for Towed Guns
-240mm Howitzer allowed for SPG

SP and Towed guns operate in 'MRSI mode' once Industrial Robotization and Automated Logistics are researched, with the following effects:
-Combat Rounds reduced to 5
-125% increased Anti-Infantry Bonus
-100% increased AT Bonus
-100% increased Ammo consumption

Though shortening combat rounds has some negative synergy with GR Recon Shells, it provides a raw 12.5% increase in anti-infantry effectiveness, and effectively more during non-ranged attack/defense, where 100%~125% extra firepower in the first 5 turns can be decisive for the rest of the combat. Net ammo consumption should remain the same since 200% ammo per round x 50% rounds = 100% ammo consumption.

Along with Infantry Armor nerfs these changes should make artillery significantly more effective.

| Walker Nerfs
I love Shadow Empire, but "Due to their high stature they are excellent tank killers" is one of the dumbest things Vic has ever said. Realistically walkers could be competitive or even superior to wheeled/tracked AFV on mountainous worlds, you could have quad/hex/octopedal artillery & tank replacement tachikoma... but absolutely not MechWarrior-esque 3 story tall bipeds.

-50% AT Malus for Walkers & Heavy Walkers
-Walkers & Heavy Walkers excluded from Vehicle Armor Optimization
-150mm armor disallowed for Walkers
-200mm armor disallowed for Heavy Walkers
-Added HiTech cost; +1 for Walker/+4 for Heavy Walker
-Heavy Walkers limited to 105mm/Medium weapons
-Walker Optimization bonus halved

Funnily enough -even- with these nerfs walkers are -still- good at fighting in difficult terrain where conventional AFVs are penalized. This just shows you how absurdly overtuned vanilla Walkers are.

| Automated Emplacement Buff
I tried very hard to let MG emplacements use the same twin HMG as Walkers get, but Vic's hardcoded AI kept exploding in protest.
-MG Emplacement x2 Attack Overrule
-MG Emplacement +100% Firepower
-MG Emplacement +25% Anti-Tank Bonus
-Turret Emplacement +25% Anti-Infantry Bonus
-Automated MG & Turrets receive +50% Ammo Capacity

This makes Automated MG/Turret more flexible and better at preventing breakthroughs, increasing synergy with backliner units.

Todo:
-Add vehicle entrenchment (somehow) as 50% of infantry, no instant entrench
-###mm Polymer and Shield Generator
-Graphics for vehicles with shield bubble
-Graphics for APC, Mech QMG, SPG side Skirt
-New Formations: [s]Garrison, Walker, Heavy Walker, Combined Walker, MRL, Missile, Light Armor Vanguard[/s]
-The rest of the mod (story, character feats, stratagems, assets, hex perks)
Attachments
NModLiteV2.zip
(102.86 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
Last edited by newageofpower on Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:13 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Kartoshecka
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by Kartoshecka »

Overall I think these are pretty good changes that make the game more enjoyable and realistic/immersive at the same time, so a huge thank you for this mod! I especially like the increased lethality of artillery (which is currently way too nerfed and unrealistic in the base game imho).

I completely agree with your take on Walkers as well, but the decision to completely disable nukes is controversial and I personally don't like it though and think it should probably be a submod or something like that, but hey, it's your creation and you made something awesome, thank you again!
fibol
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by fibol »

Is it intended that buggies and trucks have a pop divisor of 5, meaning one can get a full unit of buggies for just 100 pop?
fibol
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by fibol »

Is it intended that buggies and trucks have a pop divisor of 5, meaning one can get a full unit of buggies for just 100 pop?
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newageofpower
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by newageofpower »

Kartoshecka wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:56 am Overall I think these are pretty good changes that make the game more enjoyable and realistic/immersive at the same time, so a huge thank you for this mod! I especially like the increased lethality of artillery (which is currently way too nerfed and unrealistic in the base game imho).

I completely agree with your take on Walkers as well, but the decision to completely disable nukes is controversial and I personally don't like it though and think it should probably be a submod or something like that, but hey, it's your creation and you made something awesome, thank you again!
I'm not 100% sure I fixed all the problems of artillery, in my testing they *feel* stronger vs infantry, but I have to autistically socket-fork every little change I make with these modtools so my time/attention to any single issue is much lower than I'd like. Please do give feedback.

Most MP games ban nukes via mod or houserule because micronuke instantly obsoletes everything else on the ground - tanks, mechs, plasma weapons, triple prefix grenadier with double suffix, doesn't matter, they're all so much less cost efficient than nuke RPG troops its not a contest. Then ICBMs immediately end the game. First player to drop a Tsar Bomba on the other guy's SHQ wins 99.999% of the time.

This is very, very unfun, at least after the first one or two times you do it to your enemy. I can't realistically nerf nukes either - Shadow Empire is, if anything, understating the power of nukes. From my conversations with SMEs it's completely plausible for sub-20 men action teams with nuclear demolition charges (using nuke-resistant UHF radio) to hold up/cripple entire tank divisions, and there'd be no way to be sure you've cleared the AO of these teams without resorting to nuke carpet bombing.

Hence the story portion of my mod; your star system has GR-era automated space defenses (backronym: Orbital Defense Integrated Network), some components of which are still functioning and will automatically punish (read: orbital strike) anyone who initiates a nuclear explosion, and winning the game is about controlling all the ODIN terminals.

I'm tempted to make a total nuke-war mod (nuke weapon for light armor, artillery, rockets, missiles) but I suspect it would be the same conclusion as you get late vanilla - Davy Crockett boys everywhere on the ground until you can fling ICBMs at their capital city.
fibol wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:53 am Is it intended that buggies and trucks have a pop divisor of 5, meaning one can get a full unit of buggies for just 100 pop?
Pop Divisor 5 for trucks is vanilla Truck behavior, and **on average** yields a rebate of 80%, that is out of 10 points of truck you should get back 8 points of population.

Check out page 38 of the 1.0-1.21 changelog: https://www.matrixgames.com/amazon/Uploads/whatsnew.pdf

"Manpower Rebate rule. Trucks / APCs and Recon Buggies return some manpower back to SHQ
after their deployment from the factory (returning mechanics, logistics and factory teams)"

You can test this by turning my mod off and starting a vanilla 1.26i run, non-militia trucks will still have manpower divisor 5.

As for buggies, the manhours of maintenance to hours of service ratio for IRL buggies is even better than most military trucks, so I felt it OK to reduce it's manpower impact. If this is imbalanced early game, I can nerf their initial manpower rebate and then give them a bonus for automation.
Last edited by newageofpower on Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
fibol
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by fibol »

Heh, thats what being away from Shadow Empire for half a year and super tired does to a fibol. I thought to remember it was a 60% rebate originally. But beside that yeah I do think 80% for buggies is to much. Buggies are pretty decent combat units for quite a while, giving them out for mostly free seems a bit to extreme. A divisor of 2 or 3 I think would be reasonable.

Edit: Overall my general impression is that this mod seems mostly aimed at more lategame things than I usually reach, but I'm gonna give it a spin and see if anything else comes up regardless.
Kartoshecka
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by Kartoshecka »

newageofpower wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:03 pm
Kartoshecka wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:56 am Overall I think these are pretty good changes that make the game more enjoyable and realistic/immersive at the same time, so a huge thank you for this mod! I especially like the increased lethality of artillery (which is currently way too nerfed and unrealistic in the base game imho).

I completely agree with your take on Walkers as well, but the decision to completely disable nukes is controversial and I personally don't like it though and think it should probably be a submod or something like that, but hey, it's your creation and you made something awesome, thank you again!
I'm not 100% sure I fixed all the problems of artillery, in my testing they *feel* stronger vs infantry, but I have to autistically socket-fork every little change I make with these modtools so my time/attention to any single issue is much lower than I'd like. Please do give feedback.

Most MP games ban nukes via mod or houserule because micronuke instantly obsoletes everything else on the ground - tanks, mechs, plasma weapons, triple prefix grenadier with double suffix, doesn't matter, they're all so much less cost efficient than nuke RPG troops its not a contest. Then ICBMs immediately end the game. First player to drop a Tsar Bomba on the other guy's SHQ wins 99.999% of the time.

This is very, very unfun, at least after the first one or two times you do it to your enemy. I can't realistically nerf nukes either - Shadow Empire is, if anything, understating the power of nukes. From my conversations with SMEs it's completely plausible for sub-20 men action teams with nuclear demolition charges (using nuke-resistant UHF radio) to hold up/cripple entire tank divisions, and there'd be no way to be sure you've cleared the AO of these teams without resorting to nuke carpet bombing.

Hence the story portion of my mod; your star system has GR-era automated space defenses (backronym: Orbital Defense Integrated Network), some components of which are still functioning and will automatically punish (read: orbital strike) anyone who initiates a nuclear explosion, and winning the game is about controlling all the ODIN terminals.

I'm tempted to make a total nuke-war mod (nuke weapon for light armor, artillery, rockets, missiles) but I suspect it would be the same conclusion as you get late vanilla - Davy Crockett boys everywhere on the ground until you can fling ICBMs at their capital city.
Regarding nukes. Well, the thing is, I don't play multiplayer, although I have a license version of the game on steam. I just like to play at my own pace and on large planets/with very slow research, so personally I see nukes somewhere around 100-200 hours into the game and it's a useful way for me to shorten really long campaigns so they don't last another 300+ hours. Plus I like the feeling of building up your key cities with bunkers and anti-radiation centers in anticipation of nuclear strikes, when the world gradually brings back these technologies.

The story part looks really cool and creative to me, I like the idea, but during Dissolution War many planets experience nuclear wars, I think this contradicts the ODIN idea a little?

I'll try to give some feedback with my impressions of the mod (and of my beloved artillery in it) as I'm currently playing the campaign with it. I'm really excited about your mod though, I feel like SE, while already a Great game, still has so much potential if the community turns it's modding efforts to it.
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newageofpower
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by newageofpower »

fibol wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:08 pm Heh, thats what being away from Shadow Empire for half a year and super tired does to a fibol. I thought to remember it was a 60% rebate originally. But beside that yeah I do think 80% for buggies is to much. Buggies are pretty decent combat units for quite a while, giving them out for mostly free seems a bit to extreme. A divisor of 2 or 3 I think would be reasonable.

Edit: Overall my general impression is that this mod seems mostly aimed at more lategame things than I usually reach, but I'm gonna give it a spin and see if anything else comes up regardless.
Lol. I've been gone for over >3 years and came back recently, first thing I did was inhale patch notes.

Mod has more late game 'content' but some of the changes are huge early game; for example the early game customization bonus. Next patch I'll be rebalancing the tech tree which will have more implications for midgame choices too, at least for Team Minmaxers. Among other things.
Kartoshecka wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:57 amRegarding nukes. Well, the thing is, I don't play multiplayer, although I have a license version of the game on steam. I just like to play at my own pace and on large planets/with very slow research, so personally I see nukes somewhere around 100-200 hours into the game and it's a useful way for me to shorten really long campaigns so they don't last another 300+ hours. Plus I like the feeling of building up your key cities with bunkers and anti-radiation centers in anticipation of nuclear strikes, when the world gradually brings back these technologies.
Shadow Empire fortifications are vastly more cost effective against nuclear weapons than IRL hardening, but even max level bunkerization still doesn't hold up against 100MT ICBM. Putting resources into building bunker VII in all your cities instead of snowballing/rushing nukes first is how you lose the game - that is, if you're not facing the deeply suboptimal AI.

If I'm still in a Shadow Empire fugue after finishing this mod, I'll look into a total nuclear war mod next. But I already gave you an idea of what that would look like...
Kartoshecka wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:57 am The story part looks really cool and creative to me, I like the idea, but during Dissolution War many planets experience nuclear wars, I think this contradicts the ODIN idea a little?

I'll try to give some feedback with my impressions of the mod (and of my beloved artillery in it) as I'm currently playing the campaign with it. I'm really excited about your mod though, I feel like SE, while already a Great game, still has so much potential if the community turns it's modding efforts to it.
Millenia of (mostly) peace means very low levels of militarization. Few of the Galactic Republic's systems would have significant space defenses. Those things are expensive! Why is Podunk Backwater Governor funding a grid of orbital fortresses? Is he planning on rebelling!?

Even fewer of them would trust soulless machines to run them, instead putting meatbag officers in charge... Whom inevitably started using their absurdly destructive weapons on each other during the Dissolution War. The systems wouldn't always be able to prevent ground based Republican military bases from nuking each other, if they were too busy trying to prevent themselves from getting blown up, especially since the majority of the defense network would not be optimized for orbit-to-surface duties.

By using this mod you are the lucky 10% of 10% of 10% of 10% of systems whom invested into a space defense network, whose civil war left significant portions of it intact or at least minimally functional, and which had decent levels of automation/self-maintenance, and whose last acting governor had a moment of sanity and gave the right orders to the defense network... You probably aren't the only one in the ashes of the Republic, but definitely an ultra rarity.

Thanks in advance for testing.
Kartoshecka
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by Kartoshecka »

newageofpower wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:08 pm Shadow Empire fortifications are vastly more cost effective against nuclear weapons than IRL hardening, but even max level bunkerization still doesn't hold up against 100MT ICBM. Putting resources into building bunker VII in all your cities instead of snowballing/rushing nukes first is how you lose the game - that is, if you're not facing the deeply suboptimal AI.

If I'm still in a Shadow Empire fugue after finishing this mod, I'll look into a total nuclear war mod next. But I already gave you an idea of what that would look like...
Well, in my opinion, in this game the bunkered city gradually moves its important assets into cement chambers underground (Siege of Vraks style :В), while the anti-radiation structures deal with the passive effects of the radiation itself and prevent people from dying/poisoning of the waters etc. I know this style of playing is not what you call optimal, it's just one of many choices I make purely for aesthetic reasons (for example, I also often use multiple SHQs simply because it makes more sense in terms of immersion than hauling resources to one specific warehouse from all over the planet). Plus, when you have a few dozen zones, you can pretty much direct your resources to whatever your heart desires (though I haven't played with the Nemesis option yet, maybe a more well-fed AI will limit the opportunities for such "frivolity").
newageofpower wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:08 pm Millenia of (mostly) peace means very low levels of militarization. Few of the Galactic Republic's systems would have significant space defenses. Those things are expensive! Why is Podunk Backwater Governor funding a grid of orbital fortresses? Is he planning on rebelling!?

Even fewer of them would trust soulless machines to run them, instead putting meatbag officers in charge... Whom inevitably started using their absurdly destructive weapons on each other during the Dissolution War. The systems wouldn't always be able to prevent ground based Republican military bases from nuking each other, if they were too busy trying to prevent themselves from getting blown up, especially since the majority of the defense network would not be optimized for orbit-to-surface duties.

By using this mod you are the lucky 10% of 10% of 10% of 10% of systems whom invested into a space defense network, whose civil war left significant portions of it intact or at least minimally functional, and which had decent levels of automation/self-maintenance, and whose last acting governor had a moment of sanity and gave the right orders to the defense network... You probably aren't the only one in the ashes of the Republic, but definitely an ultra rarity.
I really love the "head lore" that SE generates, but what I meant was that in the Dissolution War events that are described in the process of planet generation, nuclear war happens quite often, and even radiation-infected areas are generated on planets. I even came across an event where unknown cult (syndics I bet) take over a certain zone towards the end of the war and initiate several nuclear strikes. Should ODIN's inaction in such events be attributed to bad orders from the Orbital Defense Force command or something like that?
newageofpower wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:08 pm Thanks in advance for testing.
Don't mention it. I don't know if I'll finish the full 100+ hour campaign with your mod, but I can already agree that artillery is probably still not the "god of war" it deserves to be. I've already had a little discussion about this issue in vanilla (along with the issue of tanks being currently waaaay too strong) with the wonderful user Slippy on the Suggestions and Feedback forum in the Shadow Empire community on Steam, he suggested making artillery somehow more effective at killing or dislodging infantry on lower calibers. Although I'm not sure how to implement this
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newageofpower
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by newageofpower »

Image
Finally got a hang of the gfx system...
Image
Kartoshecka wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 11:18 pmDon't mention it. I don't know if I'll finish the full 100+ hour campaign with your mod, but I can already agree that artillery is probably still not the "god of war" it deserves to be. I've already had a little discussion about this issue in vanilla (along with the issue of tanks being currently waaaay too strong) with the wonderful user Slippy on the Suggestions and Feedback forum in the Shadow Empire community on Steam, he suggested making artillery somehow more effective at killing or dislodging infantry on lower calibers. Although I'm not sure how to implement this
Hmm, this is after you've activated MRSI (and designed a new model/iteration and then put it into the field)?

The increase in artillery power comes from two factors - weakening of infantry armor, and MRSI mode. In my testing endgame arty (Model MkIV, >90% optimization) passes 1000 vs soft/11 attacks (over 11k soft attack) and outperforms well optimized heavy plasma guns (at anti-infantry).

Does artillery have problem with infantry too or is it just AFVs?

I've got the rest of Patch 3 ready so if Artillery is still underperforming (could you send a combat log?) I'd like to know ASAP. I do have a suspicion on what the reason is -and- a solution in mind.
Kartoshecka wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 11:18 pm Well, in my opinion, in this game the bunkered city gradually moves its important assets into cement chambers underground (Siege of Vraks style :В), while the anti-radiation structures deal with the passive effects of the radiation itself and prevent people from dying/poisoning of the waters etc. I know this style of playing is not what you call optimal, it's just one of many choices I make purely for aesthetic reasons (for example, I also often use multiple SHQs simply because it makes more sense in terms of immersion than hauling resources to one specific warehouse from all over the planet). Plus, when you have a few dozen zones, you can pretty much direct your resources to whatever your heart desires (though I haven't played with the Nemesis option yet, maybe a more well-fed AI will limit the opportunities for such "frivolity").
IRL Cheyenne Mountain was originally designed to survive 30MT detonation at 2km, but as technology advanced it's 600 meters of granite protection was no longer enough - a direct hit from an 18MT weapon would obliterate the facility. By ~1976 the Soviets designed burrowing warhead ICBMs to kill facilities even under a kilometer of rock, so America stopped trying.

It is vastly cheaper to increase the yield and precision of nuclear weapons than trying to move millions of people (and the infrastructure to keep then alive) deeper, at least with currently foreseeable technology.
Kartoshecka wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 11:18 pm I really love the "head lore" that SE generates, but what I meant was that in the Dissolution War events that are described in the process of planet generation, nuclear war happens quite often, and even radiation-infected areas are generated on planets. I even came across an event where unknown cult (syndics I bet) take over a certain zone towards the end of the war and initiate several nuclear strikes. Should ODIN's inaction in such events be attributed to bad orders from the Orbital Defense Force command or something like that?
Yes, I'll put in a blurb about how due to grossly delayed resupply it took X decades for the automated maintenance drones to mine the minerals and salvage dead parts to reactivate it or something. There's many ways to let nukes have fallen in the Dissolution War yet still have an ancient automated sword of Damocles hang over your head.

Heck, some of those nukes could have been *from* orbital defense punishing launches...
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by Kartoshecka »

newageofpower wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:11 am Image
Finally got a hang of the gfx system...
Image
Yooo I'm so excited
newageofpower wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:11 am Hmm, this is after you've activated MRSI (and designed a new model/iteration and then put it into the field)?

The increase in artillery power comes from two factors - weakening of infantry armor, and MRSI mode. In my testing endgame arty (Model MkIV, >90% optimization) passes 1000 vs soft/11 attacks (over 11k soft attack) and outperforms well optimized heavy plasma guns (at anti-infantry).

Does artillery have problem with infantry too or is it just AFVs?

I've got the rest of Patch 3 ready so if Artillery is still underperforming (could you send a combat log?) I'd like to know ASAP. I do have a suspicion on what the reason is -and- a solution in mind.
Oh no, I should have specified that I meant early game artillery model Mk II, not the lategame one. It's too early for that, I won't be able to talk about it's perfomance after all the tech and model iterations until much later, sorry

If you want, I can send you some logs with artillery, if you'll be interested in its performance in the early game.
newageofpower wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:11 am IRL Cheyenne Mountain was originally designed to survive 30MT detonation at 2km, but as technology advanced it's 600 meters of granite protection was no longer enough - a direct hit from an 18MT weapon would obliterate the facility. By ~1976 the Soviets designed burrowing warhead ICBMs to kill facilities even under a kilometer of rock, so America stopped trying.

It is vastly cheaper to increase the yield and precision of nuclear weapons than trying to move millions of people (and the infrastructure to keep then alive) deeper, at least with currently foreseeable technology.
Interesting. Well, one could argue that in the moderate sci-fi conditions that the late game is in, fortifications of this kind become more accessible and effective, but yeah, I doubt that's very realistic.
newageofpower wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:11 am Yes, I'll put in a blurb about how due to grossly delayed resupply it took X decades for the automated maintenance drones to mine the minerals and salvage dead parts to reactivate it or something. There's many ways to let nukes have fallen in the Dissolution War yet still have an ancient automated sword of Damocles hang over your head.

Heck, some of those nukes could have been *from* orbital defense punishing launches...
Sounds plausible enough to me
fibol
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by fibol »

Bug report: My late game artillery now requires both ammo and energy per combat round, but doesn't request any ammo, leading it to not do anything at all anymore. I assume the energy requirement comes wth the msri mode?
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by newageofpower »

What do you guys think about these armor gfx?
Image
Actinoid Alloy on left, Polymer with Vehicular Shield on right
fibol wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 1:21 pm Bug report: My late game artillery now requires both ammo and energy per combat round, but doesn't request any ammo, leading it to not do anything at all anymore. I assume the energy requirement comes wth the msri mode?
Definitely sounds like a bug. Might be fixable via debug. Wanna send me your save file?
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by fibol »

Sure, heres a save file and 3 images showcasing the issue.
Attachments
2024-11-05 17_03_35-Greenshot.png
2024-11-05 17_03_35-Greenshot.png (4.48 MiB) Viewed 977 times
2024-11-05 17_04_12-Greenshot.png
2024-11-05 17_04_12-Greenshot.png (1.63 MiB) Viewed 977 times
2024-11-05 17_03_42-Greenshot.png
2024-11-05 17_03_42-Greenshot.png (3.17 MiB) Viewed 977 times
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by newageofpower »

fibol wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:06 pm Sure, heres a save file and 3 images showcasing the issue.
Ahhh... I found the error. Backported the fix to your save but you will need to redesign a new model.

Before
Image

After
Image

You can still be able to get the old guns to fire by pairing them (usually via customization) into a unit with models that have energy storage, like mobile shield generators


Fixed Save Below:
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fibol
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by fibol »

Thanks!
Kartoshecka
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by Kartoshecka »

newageofpower wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 2:21 pm What do you guys think about these armor gfx?
Image
Actinoid Alloy on left, Polymer with Vehicular Shield on right
Looks awesome! These APCs definitely need some shields, considering the turretless machine gunner position (Why in the name of God did you do that, Vic?)

Edit:
newageofpower wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:03 pm As for buggies, the manhours of maintenance to hours of service ratio for IRL buggies is even better than most military trucks, so I felt it OK to reduce it's manpower impact. If this is imbalanced early game, I can nerf their initial manpower rebate and then give them a bonus for automation.
I finally decided to produce buggies in my campaign and came across this mechanic. While I'm all for realism, I also think that such a generous reduction in resource costs, given the enormous effectiveness of buggies in early game, is too unbalanced
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by newageofpower »

Kartoshecka wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 1:10 pm I finally decided to produce buggies in my campaign and came across this mechanic. While I'm all for realism, I also think that such a generous reduction in resource costs, given the enormous effectiveness of buggies in early game, is too unbalanced
In patch 3 buggies have been nerfed back to their vanilla pop divisor 3 (and APCs to divisor 2!) with +1 for automation. Unfortunately due to continuous feature creep patch 3 is... delayed.
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by Kartoshecka »

newageofpower wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:24 am (and APCs to divisor 2!) with +1 for automation.
Yes, why so? To try to simulate the need for maintenance staff? It's just that in my opinion, I don't know if team minmax agree with me, APCs with pop divisor of 3 are in nice middle ground betweeb combat effectiveness and resource cost. I think, they significantly increase the combat potential of your units, but they also require substantially more resources than just infantry and motorized infantry, and are still vulnerable to tanks, so you can't really call them unbalanced. Has your experience in multiplayer led you to a different conclusion?
newageofpower wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 1:24 am Unfortunately due to continuous feature creep patch 3 is... delayed.
No problem, take as much time as you need if that's what you want. Personally, I'd rather wait for a good mod than get one of dubious quality right away :В
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Re: [Mod] NMod Lite - October 29th - v2 for 1.26i

Post by fibol »

I just completed my first long game with this mod and heres a collection of feedback:

- I like the nuke disable, as otherwise they always just come to early and make the entire 4th row of tech feel like an imminent doomclock that you need to finish the game before there is any substantial time spent there.

- I did not get to Plasma/Beam weapons so no comment on their changes

- 100mm armor for light tanks at tech level 3 does nothing, as you already start at that. Theres 10 Tech in 'Early Tech', 6 more gets you level 4, 15 level 5, the entire 'Basic Tech' group is 14 techs. I think moving the 100mm armor to level 5 is warranted if early tanks are supposed to be meaningfully limited from that protection.

- With side skirts APCs are tankier than light tanks, and particularly can't reliably be cracked by RPGs. It does always irk me in vanilla when they don't get any side skirt bonus, but seeing it in action I think its to much.

- I think the machinery cost + mm nerf to Heavy Combat armor together is to much. I have a level 3 Heavy Industry doing 240 machinery a turn and I felt neither capable, nor pressured by opposing Heavy Combat Armor infantry to upgrade my own infantry into Heavy CA. There are a lot of infantry, and the survivability difference is not high enough. I think either reversing one of these nerf, or extending the machinery cost to also affect normal Combat Armor (which has such a transformative quality it makes non-CA inviable once fielded) would be an improvement.

- Similar thoughts on Battledress. HiTech for mere infantry is a massive cost, and although battledress infantry is very strong, its now competing with walkers and honestly more expensive than tanks. A small elite squad for difficult terrain might proof worth the investment, but then they should actually be a menace to non-Battledress infantry similar to tanks and retain their old mm values.

- Ai choice rationalisation: Good

- There weren't many artillery duels, so not much to comment there.

- 240mm for SPGs very good, they needed a bit of a small buff to increase their late game viability to not get outcompeted by artillery on economic terms again.

- MRSI mode: Just the amount of time saved from late game bombardments not going on forever every time makes this an excellent change. I'd ask for something similar for planes, but there recon is always gained per turn, so difficult.

- I like the new walkers. I only got a handful of light walkers, no heavies, but they carry a lot of firepower still, while now are actually being relatively vulnerable and needing cover. They now have an identity as an infantry attacks heavy firepower for difficult terrain which feels really nice.

- Automated MGs changes turned them into something thats actually usable instead of utter trash you research to get to Automated turrets.

- Formations: I at no point missed any of the removed ones. From the new ones I only got the rocket corps, but I really like that one. I am not sure if the Bastion Army actually works, it's components in Formation Types Overview show as Inexistant reinftype ID 12 and 24. I didn't want to crash the game so I didn't research it.

Overall I rate this mod currently mostly a big success and improvement.
Also, those APC sprites look really good.
I think I'm gonna play a vanilla game next (mostly to check my memory of how oppressive nuclear weapons are and because there may be a bug with city mergers I want a clean slate to report), but I am looking forward to the next releases here.
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