new russia

[boldairade]

is the accepted way to play now with tougher russia?

is this how the game ships?

or is that a mod for advanced players?

would anyone recommend playing without it?

[sveint]

What do you mean, the winter scenario?

Personally I prefer it, clear weather in Nov/Dec 41 can easily kill Russia no matter how good the player.

[stjeand]

1) Always play with the harder Russia...not sure if the game ships like that or you have to patch. I suspect patch.

2) Really should play with the severe winter...but I have done okay without it. BUT those "cold" turns are back breaking.

[aaminoff]

It is my impression from the pinned Update Scenario thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0&t=403397

that Alvaro considers bumping up the Soviet defense values as more of a bug fix than a balance adjustment. It sounds to me like the change will be rolled into the next patch, whenever that happens, so the changes are on track to become "vanilla". Someone would have to create a mod to bump them back down.

[sveint]

Those changes are really good. The war on the east front feels much better. You no longer want to just frontal assault everything as Germany in 1941.

[AlbertN]

I am playing Allies in a few PvP games and as Russia is (no Winter scenario, no extra defence) seems to be good in shape.
It takes a beating and sure the winter offensive is not something ludicrous like in other games, in fa ct you do not accomplish much unless Germans overstretch - which is okay for me.

[sveint]

I am playing Allies in a few PvP games and as Russia is (no Winter scenario, no extra defence) seems to be good in shape.
It takes a beating and sure the winter offensive is not something ludicrous like in other games, in fa ct you do not accomplish much unless Germans overstretch - which is okay for me.

The game is remarkably well balanced, problems only manifest with very experienced players, where the Axis tends to win every time.

[AlvaroSousa]

Is it a blowout or close between 2 experienced players?

[AlbertN]

If anything Russia can use more manpower - not more defence value (like that hotpatch) or the Germans may not go too far. And if so remove manpower from UK - which has a far too high value.
I am not an expert as of now of this game but I play WiF and played WITE2 to extents and tend to have an easy grasp on mecanics.

I think key for Soviets is a real, fat lend lease from the Allies.

I admit though I've yet to see the 'Mass all armoured units south' type of strategy.

[stjeand]

So for the Soviets...

1) MAX lend lease from the Allies. This is HUGE...
2) Manpower has to be heavily monitored...disbanding full strength 20% units at the end of 41, could be advantages IF you still have any. I no longer build an army every turn...at least recently...I just repair which normally uses less than the amount I am getting...so I can keep a high manpower until the winter when you start building tons of units and make limited attacks. BUT for the first turn or two be sure to leave enough PP that you can build an army IF you have too much manpower. Then max out repair as your units are getting hammered.
3) Keep your surrounded units to a minimum...It is going to happen...just need to make it a small amount. IF a unit is in supply and you know it can not escape...garrison it to get some PP, IF the ZOC is useful...IF not then disband the unit but be sure you are "down" on manpower...
I was have been able to manage my manpower well...at least well enough that it had no effect.

I have a bunch more secrets but can't give them all away...

[AlbertN]

As said as of now I am not having problems with Russia. In fact to me it seems the Allies are on steroids.

In a game of fresh Warplan players (we did like 4 test drives up to 42 to learn mechanics and resetted) the Allies have done Torch in January '42 (litterally USA production is insane. They enter war and embark and go invade); a small D'Day 42 in France - which got repelled but deprived Germans of a dozen of units including 4 panzers from Russia; and some half sitzkrieg in Egypt / Lybia.
By the end of '42 there is a strategic bombing campaign ongoing too ( as soon as the submarine threat is wrapped over, the strategic bombers used to attack submarines swap from electronics to strategic warfare).

That to me seems far too much. All the while UK and US are sending 100 production points a turn to Russia.

I have agame as Allies against one I see here on the forums, and Barbarossa still has to start. Will see how it goes there. But as of now to me the game seems extremely pro Allies, not exactly balanced.

To disband a unit that is roughly surrounded seems gamey to me - I'd not be pleasead if an opponent does that in general. Probably there should be some 'check' that a unit can disband only if it starts the turn not in an enemy ZoC.

[sveint]

I think key for Soviets is a real, fat lend lease from the Allies.

I always use the "exploit" where first the US maximises LL to UK, then UK can send even more, totaling around 200 for US/UK.

[AlbertN]

I think key for Soviets is a real, fat lend lease from the Allies.

I always use the "exploit" where first the US maximises LL to UK, then UK can send even more, totaling around 200 for US/UK.

Interesting but this is a flaw of the game mechanics then; it would suffice that Lending capability is computed on the production of a nation before it gets 'Lend Lease' from another party.
200 points a turn is rather huge and while not solving Russian manpower issues surely it will get their units upgraded fast and hard.

[sveint]

Is it a blowout or close between 2 experienced players?

The Soviets don't get crushed anymore, so the games go to 44/45.

What happens is Germany becomes a defensive juggernaut with maxed out Logistics and no manpower problems.

My endgame Germans typically have 20 panzer units (tanks), hordes of infantry, and no oil or manpower problems.
I don't feel the Germans are too powerful until around winter 1943.

[sveint]

I have a bunch more secrets but can't give them all away...

I have been on a quest the last month or so to find ways to play the Allies better against top opponents (thanks stjeand for schooling me after my years-long pause!).

And I've found that yes, it is possible to play the Allies to give a strong Axis player a challenge. However, no matter what you do, lategame Germans are extremely strong,
and I don't think it possible to beat the very best players.

I'd write up a small guide, but WarPlan2 is coming and I don't know how many will actually read such a thing.

[sveint]

But as of now to me the game seems extremely pro Allies, not exactly balanced.

Just find a strong Axis player and learn from them.

[sveint]

Example from mirror games against an experienced opponent. I think he might win as the Axis, not sure yet. At least it will be close.

z.jpg (573.79 KiB) Viewed 250 times

[AlbertN]

I've yet to get to the late game - but considering UK + USA gain 50 manpower and more, plus Canada and they out-logistic Germany or what Germany can devote totheir front, I think it's just a matter of ramming into the wall til the wall begins to crumble and crack.
Simply Germany with 32 Manpower at some point does not keep up the pace with the losses.

Which was a nailed mechanic when I started Warplan eons ago before to quit it when UK production went boosted up into silly world.

In Warplan to have nigh 100% manpower is the norm that goes through the most of the game for most of the large nations.
In say WITE2 pretty much the business is that Manpower tends to always be close to 0 (For Soviets since the start, for Axis a bit later on when they start to have more troops about).
WITE2 has an artificial experience downgrade depending on time. Warplan has it when Manpower is under 50% - which here it simply mean that under 50% you are starting to scrape the bottom. Which for Germans historically happened in '44. (Roughly in '42 they still had manpower aplenty and converted an amount of soldiers that were not riflemen into riflemen, in '43 the rotation was from hired / forced labour, getting more national workers in arms.)
The less capable, the elder and the too young is when the experience gradually drops.

Players are also naturally more conservative, and won't launch offensives just because there is someone from above forcing generals. Thus general situations on the map are more healthy on both ends.

[stjeand]

For me the Allies have to take the pressure off Russia...and that is their goal.

Germany invades Russia...UK invades Africa. NOW that can go totally bad...
IF the Germans are having a successful BOA the UK should not have the resources to mount a major invasion of Africa until the US come in...IF the Germans have had a poor showing then things likely go horribly wrong in Africa.

There are so many things that Allies can do to mess with the Axis...they have to protect so many spots...

But as sveint said...every opponent is different and you will learn so many things as you play each.


The Allies absolutely will out pace the Axis...BUT if the Germans push Russia back to far...they can pull back a large force to defend France and Italy.

I have done crazy things to try to break the pressure on Russia before from a 1942 DDay...which normally goes very badly for the Allies but it does help Russia, to a Denmark invasion, taking and holding the Kiel canal all the way to an Allied invasion of Greece and Bulgaria in my current game.

But yes as you said manpower in this game is very different. As a smarter general you don't do the silly attacks that waste manpower which keeps you with a lot better units than they had historically. No Stalingrad...no Kursk...that is a lot of men and equipment saved.



IF you are winning to easily as the Allies then yes...up your opponent, and that may change your opinion to the opposite.

Then again the Allies should get the upper hand...it is just a matter of when and if they can get enough victory points in the process.

[AlbertN]

I've noticed that - and I think it's plainly wrong the Allies in '42 would evaluate some invasion of mainland Europe. Or places where Germany can reinforce easily.

They simply have a far too rich economy, and are swimming in manpower. While Russia is relying on Lend Lease (which is factually good) but struggles with manpower.
That teamed up with how 'easy' is to invade, and eventually embark again from a port to escape.

That's my perception at least.

What you depicted above I did in a game, and sure I got some units shattered (which reform), I may have lost 1-2 corps which US / UK economy breeze through, but saved Russia from a brutal Summer '42 offensive? Smooth.
And by the time summer '43 comes I think D'Day historical will pale by how many troops and planes the Allies are churning out.