Pilot losses

[Gratch1111]

So playing Japan and losing a lot of pilots, and that would be ok if I also lost planes, but there are constantly numbers of 1-3 planes lost to AA, Ground or dogfight but 5-7 lost pilots. I have other planes lost to Ops.

Anyone know the logic behind this? Are the rest killed during training?

[BBfanboy]

Are you counting the loss of aircraft that were damaged in battle but didn't make it back to base?

[Gratch1111]

Are op losses planes that didnt make it back? I thought it was planes that was written off as too damaged to repair meaning that the pilot got back.

[btd64]

Are op losses planes that didnt make it back? I thought it was planes that was written off as too damaged to repair meaning that the pilot got back.

No, those are writeoffs. Op loses are aircraft that didn't make it back....GP

[Gratch1111]

That doesnt make sense either, I had 2/3 planes shotdown, AA etc, lost 18 aircraft, so like 15-16 in op losses and 6 pilots KIA and one MIA. Maybe ops losses are both as you say and write offs?

[LargeSlowTarget]

If everything else fails, read the manual

A search for "operational losses" yields several pieces of information from different chapters:

Planes that are damaged in combat will show up as either Flak or air combat losses if they don’t get home safely (and the enemy pilot will get credit for a kill).

Planes that are not damaged, but do not return safely are counted as operational losses.

Operational Losses (or Op Losses) occur due to accidents or other untoward events that are not a direct result of being shot at by the enemy.
These losses occur to squadrons based on several factors, including the range of the Mission, the experience of the pilot, and if the aircraft is flying from a carrier.
Any long-range Carrier-based aircraft strikes (of two or more hexes in distance) will cause an extra chance of operational losses to be incurred.
However, if a player’s base has sufficient supplies they may note that any damaged aircraft will likely be repaired before the next Orders Phase.
Op losses include planes lost returning to base and planes crashing, planes destroyed or damaged on take-off and landing, and pilots as a result getting killed, wounded, or captured.

Write offs are a new type of Ops loss for A/C. A write off may occur when a machine returns with too much damage to repair. Pilot survival rates are higher for write offs than Ops losses.
It is assumed that the plane is cannibalized for parts, and thus after 5 write offs an extra plane is considered repaired and becomes available.


So, planes damaged in combat may not return due to that damage and will then count as kills.

Planes undamaged in combat but not returning due to non-combat causes (mechanical problems, out of fuel, weather, navigation etc.) and accidents during take-off and landing are op losses.

Write-offs are op losses as well - planes that managed to return with damage too heavy to repair.

Leaves me wondering whether a plane damaged in combat and crashing on landing is counted as kill or as op loss. I guess it is considered as kill since damaged in combat and did not get home safely.

[Yaab]

"Your Ki-84 Frank pilots have a high attrition rate".

[RangerJoe]

Aircraft that are damaged in combat and don't return to base are A2A losses.

If the pilot crash lands the aircraft, that is an OPs loss and can also kill/wound the pilot.

If the aircraft is a write-off, it is an OPs loss. The pilot can be WIA.

The pilot can be WIA if the aircraft is damaged in combat even if the damage is slight and the aircraft may still be available.

[PaxMondo]

So playing Japan and losing a lot of pilots, and that would be ok if I also lost planes, but there are constantly numbers of 1-3 planes lost to AA, Ground or dogfight but 5-7 lost pilots. I have other planes lost to Ops.

Anyone know the logic behind this? Are the rest killed during training?

So, LST and RJ gave you the real details on what is in Ops loss. I just want to clarify that as opposed to other losses (A2A, Flak, etc), this loss type can be most impacted by the player. AvSupport, Base Size, HQa, group rest, group distance being flown are just a few of the variables that go into Ops losses that the player has direct control over.

[HansBolter]

Distance being flown is a factor I can't see most Japanese players reigning themselves in on.

It's the range advantage that Japanese players exploit most to their benefit.

Japanese players dream of setting up an 8 hex carrier strike.

What self respecting Japanese player isn't going to hinder Allied ship movements with his ultra long range ship killing Netties?

I can see Japanese players working to reign in all of the other factors, but not this one.

[Chickenboy]

Actually, knowing what my high repair costs are for many of my mid-late war planes, I *do* try to limit range (and other causes of airframe fatigue, OPS losses, etc.) where feasible. Japanese players that constantly stress out the maximum range on their sorties (including NavSearch) will find themselves with high levels of such losses. Just because you CAN stretch the range doesn't mean you SHOULD stretch the range.

[PaxMondo]

Distance being flown is a factor I can't see most Japanese players reigning themselves in on.

It's the range advantage that Japanese players exploit most to their benefit.

Japanese players dream of setting up an 8 hex carrier strike.

What self respecting Japanese player isn't going to hinder Allied ship movements with his ultra long range ship killing Netties?

I can see Japanese players working to reign in all of the other factors, but not this one.

Hans,

Good to see you!

From the many AAR's, it isn't CV air group losses that are the major problem, it is LBA units being put on long range attacks with escorts and left there (maybe forgotten?) for many, many turns. There are AAR's where the IJ ops losses are well over 20% of the total losses, I've seen it in the 40's. Totally unsustainable, and all those free VP's for the allies.

[PaxMondo]

... Just because you CAN stretch the range doesn't mean you SHOULD stretch the range.

Exactly. CB, you got perfectly. JFB's should take note!!