[WAD+TWEAK][1567.6] EODAS and IRST nerfed too much?

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Tcao
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[WAD+TWEAK][1567.6] EODAS and IRST nerfed too much?

Post by Tcao »

Hi , I know in pervious built the IRST and other optical sensor was nerfed. the question is, was it nerfed too much?




in this article

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... iles-79426
Described as multi-function array technology, the DAS system uses automated computer algorithms to organize and integrate target-relevant data from missile warning systems, radar, night vision and other long-range sensors; the array is able to track a BMD target from the air at distances up to 800 nautical miles
However in the attached scenario, F-35's EODAS system cannot detect any ICBM launch. And when facing Aircraft, its performs is no better than MK1 eyeballs.

There are two groups of A/C (each with 1 x Tu-22M3, 1 x Su-27, 1 x F-35) moving at 920kts and 480kts respectively.


In about 20 tests, the player's F-35 usually detect the Tu-22M at 50nm by Mk1 eyeball (Large contrail) , detect Su-27 at 15nm by IRST, and detect F-35 at 9nm by Eyeball (small contrail) .

While I thought the high speed could causing a significant bigger heat signature on IRST, in this test the target's speed difference doesn't generate a difference on detection range.
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Raptorx7_slith
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Re: [1567.6] EODAS and IRST nerfed too much?

Post by Raptorx7_slith »

Logged, thanks. Should have an answer by tomorrow
Dimitris
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Re: [1567.6] EODAS and IRST nerfed too much?

Post by Dimitris »

You are using a fairly old database version. After a DB update, EODAS seems to be getting aircraft detections reliably at around 35nm, which tracks with public information.
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Re: [1567.6] EODAS and IRST nerfed too much?

Post by Tcao »

Dimitris wrote: Fri May 30, 2025 2:02 pm You are using a fairly old database version. After a DB update, EODAS seems to be getting aircraft detections reliably at around 35nm, which tracks with public information.
I have updated the DB to 5.11, it is still the same reslut
5/23/2025 1:32:44 PM - [1] New contact! Designated BOGEY #13 - Detected by F-35A Lightning II [Sensors: Mk1 Eyeball] at 95deg - Estimated 47nm - Very Large Contrail Detected.

5/23/2025 1:32:51 PM - [1] Contact: BOGEY #13 has been classified as: Tu-22M-3 Backfire C - Determined as: Hostile (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II [Sensor: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at Estimated 48 nm)

5/23/2025 1:33:51 PM - [1] New contact! Designated BOGEY #14 - Detected by F-35A Lightning II [Sensors: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at 107deg - 17.8nm

5/23/2025 1:33:55 PM - [1] Contact: BOGEY #14 has been type-classified as: Fighter (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II (F-35A Lightning II) [Sensor: AN/AAQ-37 EO-DAS] at 16.6 nm)

5/23/2025 1:34:01 PM - [1] Contact: Fighter #14 has been classified as: Su-27P Flanker B - Determined as: Hostile (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II [Sensor: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at 14.4 nm)


5/23/2025 1:34:14 PM - [1] New contact! Designated BOGEY #15 - Detected by F-35A Lightning II [Sensors: Mk1 Eyeball] at 117deg - Estimated 9nm - Small Contrail Detected.

5/23/2025 1:34:21 PM - [1] Contact: BOGEY #15 has been type-classified as: Multirole (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II (F-35A Lightning II) [Sensor: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at Estimated 7 nm)


5/23/2025 1:34:31 PM - [1] Contact: Multirole #15 has been classified as: F-35A Lightning II - Determined as: Hostile (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II [Sensor: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at 4.3 nm)


5/23/2025 1:38:38 PM - [1] New contact! Designated BOGEY #16 - Detected by F-35A Lightning II [Sensors: Mk1 Eyeball] at 95deg - Estimated 49nm - Very Large Contrail Detected.

5/23/2025 1:38:41 PM - [1] Contact: BOGEY #16 has been classified as: Tu-22M-3 Backfire C - Determined as: Hostile (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II [Sensor: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at Estimated 48 nm)



5/23/2025 1:40:51 PM - [1] New contact! Designated BOGEY #17 - Detected by F-35A Lightning II [Sensors: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at 107deg - 13.4nm

5/23/2025 1:40:55 PM - [1] Contact: BOGEY #17 has been type-classified as: Fighter (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II (F-35A Lightning II) [Sensor: AN/AAQ-37 EO-DAS] at 12.6 nm)

5/23/2025 1:41:01 PM - [1] Contact: Fighter #17 has been classified as: Su-27P Flanker B - Determined as: Hostile (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II [Sensor: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at 11.1 nm)


5/23/2025 1:41:14 PM - [1] New contact! Designated BOGEY #18 - Detected by F-35A Lightning II [Sensors: Mk1 Eyeball] at 120deg - Estimated 10nm - Small Contrail Detected.


5/23/2025 1:41:29 PM - [1] Contact: BOGEY #18 has been type-classified as: Multirole (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II (F-35A Lightning II) [Sensor: Mk1 Eyeball] at Estimated 6 nm)

5/23/2025 1:41:31 PM - [1] Contact: Multirole #18 has been classified as: F-35A Lightning II - Determined as: Hostile (Classification by: F-35A Lightning II [Sensor: AN/AAQ-40 EOTS [IRST]] at Estimated 6 nm)
Same detection range , Mk1 eyeballs seems to be the most effective sensor (by detecting contrail). Between the group move with afterburner and the group with cruise speed, they are detected at the same distance.
Still no detection of the ICBM launch.
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Dimitris
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Re: [1567.6] EODAS and IRST nerfed too much?

Post by Dimitris »

Yes, contrails can greatly boost the visual detection distance for a unit, this is well known. (If you live close to an airport or under an airlane you probably already know this).

I ran your save and forced all three target aircraft to lower altitude, to remove contrails as a factor. Now the visual detection ranges became:
* Tu-22M-3: 6nm
* Su-27P: 4nm
* F-35A: 2nm
....which are well below EOTS & DAS detection ranges for the same units. This is all WAD.

The detection of boosting BM at extreme range is a super-edge case; to accommodate this we'd need to do changes in the IR model that would make all IR sensors way more capable than they are IRL. So it's not worth it, at least for now.
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Re: [1567.6] EODAS and IRST nerfed too much?

Post by Dimitris »

Tcao wrote: Wed May 28, 2025 12:30 am While I thought the high speed could causing a significant bigger heat signature on IRST, in this test the target's speed difference doesn't generate a difference on detection range.
That's a fair observation. We do, in fact, have an IR signature multiplier applied depending on Mach value, but I've recently come across a better source for this effect: https://csbaonline.org/uploads/document ... eport-.pdf - p.38, Table 4

I implemented a method for calculating the multiplier based on these sample values and extrapolating for >M2.2 speed values using 2nd-degree polynomial regression (quadratic curve-fit). I then re-ran your test scenario and instructed all three targets to go as fast and high as possible (maximum Mach). The detection results were interesting:
* Tu-22M-3: 47nm
* Su-27P: 19.7nm
* F-35A: 9nm
(All detections made by EOTS).

This tweak will be included in one of the next updates.
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