Turkish Warships Join the Fight, 1968 -- new beta for testing

[Mgellis]

Newest beta...

As battle rages in the skies over Turkey, the Turkish navy must deal with its own challenges. A Soviet SAG, and groups of missile boats, are located off the coast of Syria. Soviet submarines are in Turkish waters, too. The Syrians, while limited to smaller vessels, are also on the attack. Merchants heading for the Port of Mersin are in peril. Can the Turkish navy, with the help of a few British NATO allies, eliminate the threat of Soviet and Syrian forces, and guide the merchants to safety?

As always, please let me know what you think. Feedback on all aspects of the scenario--gameplay, Events, units chosen, minor details like whether the orders read like real orders, more important issues like whether the orders are actually clear, scoring system, missions, etc.--is welcome. Please let me know what needs to be done to make this scenario more interesting, more challenging, more accurate, more fun, etc. Thanks!

[version 2 uploaded 9:30 PM CST June 23, 2025]

Turkish Med 1.JPG (393.73 KiB) Viewed 222 times

[HalfLifeExpert]

I'm playing it now, and things are not going well. While I've had some success against Syrian PT boats and aircraft, I've already lost 3 destroyers to Shaddocks, despite being on Emcon

Having gotten a look from a failed Canberra run (and looking at the scenario platforms), I think the presence of that Kynda class cruiser is making things untenable for the Anglo-Turkish naval forces. Those Shaddocks massively outrange anything the player has.

While the player doesn't have any SSMs other than the Bullpups onboard the Canberras, I think leaving just the Styx missiles on the Syrian & Soviet ships (Komars, Osas, and a lone Kashin) might be a more reasonably manageable threat, since there is a better-than-tiny chance of AA guns hitting them.

The tight quarters of the battlespace make me unsure as to what my ship's EMCON posture should be, do you have a recommendation?

I also noticed that the F-100s at Incirlik are USAF models (according to DB). Is this intentional since the latest Turkish entries seem to be the late 1950s? Just curious if this is the reason.

[Mgellis]

Thanks, as always, for the feedback.

My understanding is the F-100s were American aircraft stationed in Turkey.

"After the Lebanon crisis, TAC deployed F-100 fighter squadrons on 100-day rotations to Incirlik from the United States. The flying mission at Incirlik further diversified in 1970 when the Turkish Air Force agreed to allow U.S. Air Forces in Europe to use its air-to-ground range at Konya" --http://www.themilitarystandard.com/afb/ ... cirlik.php

I think the Soviets would have had a Kynda with the surface group. A couple were part of the Black Sea fleet at the time and they're so lethal they would have been included. But I think I'll try playing around with the WRA so the Kynda only goes after high value targets like the biggest merchants. The Shaddocks are lethal, but the Soviets might realize there is no sense wasting them on destroyers that don't have their own anti-ship missiles, that's what the missile boats are for.

As for ENCOM, I honestly don't know. I suspect staying quiet is the best option...let your aircraft and submarines find the targets and don't let them find you. Two real dangers, of course, are the Syrian patrol boats and the recon/ASW aircraft. If they get a fix on a NATO ship, they can tell the Kynda where you are and it can launch its missiles.

Looking forward to you future comments. Again, thanks.

I'm playing it now, and things are not going well. While I've had some success against Syrian PT boats and aircraft, I've already lost 3 destroyers to Shaddocks, despite being on Emcon

Having gotten a look from a failed Canberra run (and looking at the scenario platforms), I think the presence of that Kynda class cruiser is making things untenable for the Anglo-Turkish naval forces. Those Shaddocks massively outrange anything the player has.

While the player doesn't have any SSMs other than the Bullpups onboard the Canberras, I think leaving just the Styx missiles on the Syrian & Soviet ships (Komars, Osas, and a lone Kashin) might be a more reasonably manageable threat, since there is a better-than-tiny chance of AA guns hitting them.

The tight quarters of the battlespace make me unsure as to what my ship's EMCON posture should be, do you have a recommendation?

I also noticed that the F-100s at Incirlik are USAF models (according to DB). Is this intentional since the latest Turkish entries seem to be the late 1950s? Just curious if this is the reason.

[HalfLifeExpert]

Thanks for the response Mark.

It makes sense that the F-100s are US aircraft, I just missed that possibility in the briefing.

As for the Kynda, I agree that there would be one in the Fifth Eskadra, but those valuable missiles would not likely be used on older warships. The primary targets of those vessels would have been NATO aircraft carriers.

Based on the prior scenario, this war is a tactical (if not strategic) surprise for NATO, but was premediated on the Soviet's part. What that would mean for this scenario is that I personally don't think the Kynda, and it's assigned escorts, would be just off of Syria (or in port at Tartus) at the start of the war.

With Soviet premeditation, I'd think the Soviets would want that vessel out in the larger Mediterranean to strike the probable US Carrier(s) in the region quickly, almost certainly under the cover of an "exercise" or a redeployment.

This could actually make for an interesting twist on your scenario:

Perhaps the Kynda, at scenario start, has actually been at sea, already fired it's missiles and is racing back to air cover of Syria, is currently somewhere south of Cyprus, and trying to meet up with the Sverdlov in the sea between Syria and Cyprus. Maybe it pulled off a serious hit on a US Carrier.

It would be an opportunity for the player's limited forces to try to strike back against a weakened but valuable Soviet asset, while also trying to complete the same basic tasks as the scenario already has.

I think this could work. The Soviets, even without the Shaddocks, have the superior firepower on paper, but they would also be more spread out.

The Soviet success against the US Carrier could even be attributed (by the larger narrative) to the Treason of John Walker. This war would be have been close to a year since he started selling USN communications secrets to the Soviets.

[Mgellis]

I played around with a few different options and decided to swap out the Kynda for a Kirov-class cruiser. The group still has the two Kashin-class destroyers to provide anti-air coverage with their SAMs, and both cruisers have guns with a 12-mile range (longer than the 10-mile range of the biggest guns on the Turkish and British ships). So they're definitely not pushovers, but they'll have to get closer to the NATO vessels to take them out.

I'll play around with this a bit longer and then post version 2.

[Mgellis]

Just uploaded version 2.

I've removed the Kynda and replaced her with another Soviet cruiser. The Soviets and the Syrians both still have missile boats. I also changed the number of aircraft...the player now gets 4 Canberras and 4 Shackletons (for ASW) on Cyprus, and 4 F-100s at Incirlik.

I look forward to reading your comments. Thanks!

[HalfLifeExpert]

I've tried version 2. Got a minor defeat with -220 points.

Both sides kind of destroyed each other in terms of surface ships.

I was able to score significant hits on the cruisers and Kashins with the Canberras, but all 4 of the planes were lost. Against the Kashins, I was only able to score hits by going down to less than 400 feet and disabling auto evasion.

In retrospect, It would have been better to start those Canberras going after the Osa and Komar groups first.

I lost most of my surface ships, primarily to Styx missiles from the Osas and Komars as well as during a surface battle off the NE tip of Cyprus.

Ultimately all but one of the significant Soviet Surface vessels was sunk, and I only had two destroyers, one patrol boat, and two submarines left.

[Mgellis]

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, I'm figuring the best strategy would be to zap the missile boats with the Canberras, then use the submarines to eliminate as much of the big SAG as possible. You still have some surprisingly lethal patrol boats and a couple of submarines to deal with; the latter is why I added the Shackletons. The surface ships may be best suited as escorts for the merchants; it would be tricky, although I think possible, for them to take on the SAG because the guns on the cruisers out-range them.

Overall, how it is now? Are other corrections, improvements, etc. necessary or is it ready for the Community Scenario Pack?