Question about research bonuses

[100thMonkey]

Research bonuses provides research boosts when researching techs of their associated “type”. But they also unlock the ability to research certain techs when you have reach a specific threshold of a certain bonus type.

Mostly, those bonus requirements start with tier 3 techs (the first tier being “0”), with a few tier 2 techs in the mix (Long Range Tractor Beams, High Power Tractor Beams and Long Range Sensors). Those requirements are visible in the tooltips when hovering above a tech in the tech tree.

So my question is: do research bonuses of a given type (“Construction” for instance) apply when researching tier 0, 1 and 2 of those techs? Or do the research bonuses apply only when researching techs that have research bonus requirements?

[MaximKI]

Is there any reason the game has given you to think otherwise? Research bonuses should apply to all of your tech and you can see the total bonuses for a particular tech when hovering over it in the research screen.

For example, if you start a TL0 Gizureans game, or any faction that has a research penalty (all research in this case), you should be able to see said penalty for researching any tech. Say you get a research station with +20% construction bonus, you should see the bonus modified.

[100thMonkey]

Is there any reason the game has given you to think otherwise? Research bonuses should apply to all of your tech and you can see the total bonuses for a particular tech when hovering over it in the research screen.

When hovering above a tech in the tech tree, the tooltip only contain bonus info starting at certain tiers (usually tier 3). Which is precisely what made me wonder if the bonuses apply or not to the early techs for which the tooltips don’t show any bonus infos.

Take the “Early Beam Weapons” (Thuon Beam). At tier 0 through 3, the tooltip for those techs doesn’t show any research bonus info (I would have posted screenshots, but the button to do so isn't available right now). The first research bonus info for that research line only appears at tier 4.

For example, if you start a TL0 Gizureans game, or any faction that has a research penalty (all research in this case), you should be able to see said penalty for researching any tech. Say you get a research station with +20% construction bonus, you should see the bonus modified.

I did that. And indeed, after adding a +25% weapon bonus at the capital, where there’s a research station, the tooltips in the tech tree reflected the changes (but I already knew they would). But like before, there aren't any info about it in the tooltips for the early techs (only at tiers 4 and up for the Thuon line; for others it’s usually at tier 3).

You say that the bonuses should apply to all tier levels, which would make sense. But I think the interface could be clearer about it. One look at OrnluWolfjarl research bonuses per category (included in Scott’s guide), makes it clear that there are many “exceptions” as to which bonuses apply to which research (sometimes it’s obvious, sometimes it isn’t). Including infos about which research bonuses are applied to the currently researched tech, in the research tooltip in the mainscreen, would add a lot of clarity to the whole thing, especially for new players.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Is there any reason the game has given you to think otherwise? Research bonuses should apply to all of your tech and you can see the total bonuses for a particular tech when hovering over it in the research screen.

When hovering above a tech in the tech tree, the tooltip only contain bonus info starting at certain tiers (usually tier 3). Which is precisely what made me wonder if the bonuses apply or not to the early techs for which the tooltips don’t show any bonus infos.

Take the “Early Beam Weapons” (Thuon Beam). At tier 0 through 3, the tooltip for those techs doesn’t show any research bonus info (I would have posted screenshots, but the button to do so isn't available right now). The first research bonus info for that research line only appears at tier 4.

For example, if you start a TL0 Gizureans game, or any faction that has a research penalty (all research in this case), you should be able to see said penalty for researching any tech. Say you get a research station with +20% construction bonus, you should see the bonus modified.

I did that. And indeed, after adding a +25% weapon bonus at the capital, where there’s a research station, the tooltips in the tech tree reflected the changes (but I already knew they would). But like before, there aren't any info about it in the tooltips for the early techs (only at tiers 4 and up for the Thuon line; for others it’s usually at tier 3).

You say that the bonuses should apply to all tier levels, which would make sense. But I think the interface could be clearer about it. One look at OrnluWolfjarl research bonuses per category (included in Scott’s guide), makes it clear that there are many “exceptions” as to which bonuses apply to which research (sometimes it’s obvious, sometimes it isn’t). Including infos about which research bonuses are applied to the currently researched tech, in the research tooltip in the mainscreen, would add a lot of clarity to the whole thing, especially for new players.

You are mixing up two different things... one is the current bonus you have when researching a tech which is based on the total bonus (negative or positive).

You then have the required level you need to research a technology, this is a different number and is placed in a different place when you hover over a tech and is perfectly explained that is is a requirement.

These are two different things and I don't see how you can mix or misunderstand them.

[100thMonkey]

You are mixing up two different things... one is the current bonus you have when researching a tech which is based on the total bonus (negative or positive).

You then have the required level you need to research a technology, this is a different number and is placed in a different place when you hover over a tech and is perfectly explained that is is a requirement.

These are two different things and I don't see how you can mix or misunderstand them.

I understand that research bonuses are used in the game for 2 different things (boost research and requirements to be able to do certain researchs).

The fact that they act as requirements IS what's visible in the tooltips in the tech tree. So, for that aspect, the interface is clear. But when it comes to the research boosting, the interface is more opaque.

All the research bonuses are listed in Control Center's "Research Bonus Amounts" section. But those are all the boosting bonus that you currently have. It says nothing about which ones apply to the research being done currently. And as I wrote earlier, sometimes which bonus apply to what tech is obvious, sometimes it isn't (I refer you to OrnluWolfjarl's list of research bonuses per category).

Currently, there aren't any requirements for the early techs, and therefore, no info about research bonuses in their tooltip. Which suggested to me that maybe the research bonuses didn't boost those early techs.

MaximKI wrote that the bonuses should apply to all techs. So it should also apply to the early ones. So that's settled.

I don't pretend to be an advanced player, or one of the best players. But I'm not a newbie. For the new players though, I think it would help if the interface would be clearer about which bonuses applies to the tech being researched (simply showing the applied bonuses when hovering above the currently researched tech in the main interface would do the job).

DW2 is a challenging game, and that's great. But the challenge shouldn't be in trying to understand the mechanics of the game because the documentation and/or the interface isn't clear about them. In my opinion, improving how welcoming the game is to new players benefit everybody having an interest in the game (Devs and current players), because it increases the chances of those new players sticking with the game and becoming regular players / supporters of it.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I agree that hovering over the tech in the tech tree should say what bonus category it is using, I hope they add that information eventually so it is more clear.

[ChrisGb]

I agree that hovering over the tech in the tech tree should say what bonus category it is using, I hope they add that information eventually so it is more clear.

I wonder about that with High-Tech,lol
also what Category is Colonization Tech in ?

[OrnluWolfjarl]

You can tell which bonus applies by looking at the background colour of the tech tree (the actual background, not necessarily the colour of the tech's box). For example, you might notice that that Shields have a blue background indicating Shield Research bonus applies. However, the point defense shield deflectors just below them have a red background, indicating a Weapons Research bonus.

You can test this using the editor in a fresh game, and giving your capital all research bonuses, but in different amounts (e.g. 1%, 2%, 3%, etc). Then hovering over each tooltip you'll be able to tell which bonus applies. Having done this for each iteration of the DW2 Cheat Sheet, I can say that all tech tiers indeed have bonuses applied to them.

Having said that, I too would like this information to be more clear, but there's two issues that would make this change time-consuming for the devs:

a) Researches in XML files don't have a variable to indicate the research bonus that applies in each case, and tooltips seem to be drawn from the XML files. This variable would likely need to be added for each of the hundreds of techs manually. I don't know how the devs handle assigning bonuses to each tech currently.

b) The All Research bonus is applied to all techs and then added to the specific research bonus for each tech. The current tooltip just shows you the total sum in each case. If they change the tooltips, they'd need to provide a breakdown (e.g. All Research = 10%, Weapons Research = 5%, Total bonus = 15%). This would make generating tooltips a bit more complicated I think, and would make tooltips bigger by at least a couple lines.

[ChrisGb]

You can tell which bonus applies by looking at the background colour of the tech tree (the actual background, not necessarily the colour of the tech's box). For example, you might notice that that Shields have a blue background indicating Shield Research bonus applies.

this honestly doesnt apply reliably as Shields are the same blue as Command, Crew, Medial and Research Facilities which is High-Tech, then you have all the Fighters & Bombers that is High-Tech too but its Lila background, then the research labs on the Research Station line has green background but is High-tech also..like what? so, no...the color scheme not apply

Colonization is Industrial I found and has green background then Storage and Transport is Industrial too but has a brownish background...no...color scheme not apply

You can test this using the editor in a fresh game, and giving your capital all research bonuses, but in different amounts (e.g. 1%, 2%, 3%, etc). Then hovering over each tooltip you'll be able to tell which bonus applies. Having done this for each iteration of the DW2 Cheat Sheet, I can say that all tech tiers indeed have bonuses applied to them.

Found it, just look at Repeatable Tech, they always indicate a minimum of X in that specific field and the colors are mixed and assigend almost randomly, they are no indication whatsoever of the real research field that applies.

If there is any system to the background colors then its obviously not the research field itself.