Combat intuition in TOAW IV: How do you, veterans, do it?

[voroshilov17]

Hello everyone!.

I am starting a new thread on this topic because I haven't seen any in the forum on this subject, and I think it's interesting and important.

I have a pretty good idea of how combat resolution works in TOAW IV. Basically, it's a matter of reading the combat planner, particularly the net odds values.

My question is more for the TOAW veterans. Studying the combat planner and deducing the outcome of the battle is fine, but I'm more interested in developing that intuition at first glance.

In physical boardgames, it's relatively easy. The combat system is usually total attack/total defense, you check the dice odds table according to the terrain, and you already have an overview and a general idea of how an attack might turn out.
But in TOAW? How do you veterans predict/visualize or have this intuition about the outcome of a battle without having to consult the combat planner? What do you notice or what do you look at more or less?

I think this intuition is very interesting to have when it comes to developing strategies and moving certain units. How do you guys do it?

Big thanks in advances

[Curtis Lemay]

Intuitively, it's not much different from the old CRT stuff. Combat odds are what matter. The one difference concerns the difference between soft and hard targets. Soft targets should have lots of AP directed at them (especially including artillery). Hard targets aren't very vulnerable to AP and must have lots of AT directed at them instead. Know what your tank-killers are (often times they are aircraft! Sometimes they are AAA!), and where your best tank units are. Tanks are pretty invulnerable to artillery, so they usually make the best assaulters. Infantry have to be used judiciously in any artillery-rich environment. Note that this becomes less an issue as the scale increases because division or higher units tend to be well integrated with hard and soft elements. But at battalion or smaller scales it becomes essential to be aware of unit types.

Try to deny support to defenders by knocking that support out of support deployments (via bombardments). Try to deny entrenchment to defenders by knocking them out of entrenchment (via bombardments).

Try to take advantage of flanking (attacking from two opposite directions) if possible for the benefits it affords. This includes denying a retreat path to the defenders - the best way to eliminate defending units. It can be worthwhile to wait a turn before attacking after cutting off retreat to allow the defenders to become unsupplied.

Be aware of the Assault Ratio: It should be 1.0 or above for best results. (Basically, that means the assaulter active-defender strength - sans support - should be at least equal to the active-defender strength of the defending units - sans support.)

Be aware of cooperation issues as the penalties can be severe. Same for combat density issues. Same for terrain issues. Same for entrenchment issues. Same for unit health issues.

Be aware of quality differences between the attackers and defenders (both equipment superiority/inferiority and proficiency superiority/inferiority). If you're sending conscript Shermans against SS Tiger II's, maybe rethink it.

Pay attention to Loss Tolerance settings for your units. Attacking settings depend upon many factors but the objective should usually be to have the unit last one round in the attack (for the most exploitation opportunities). Defenders should usually be set to "Ignore Losses" to make it hold as long as possible. (Bad things start for a defense when units retreat).

Of course, you must be aware of combat round issues (see my article about it here: https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 5#p1451315). Summary: Don't use late units in combats. Wait till they are caught up before adding them. Make good use of Military Police when moving to avoid MP costs due to vehicle density. Keep support units well placed and in support modes. Getting the most out of the round system can be the difference between victory and defeat in TOAW.

Then there is anti-naval combat: Primarily specific aircraft types (dive bombers and torpedo bombers) are the only legit anti-naval air types. Attacking naval with level bombers is mostly a waste of effort. They generally can't hit anything except targets at anchor. But note that dive bombers are a primary anti-tank element. So, it can be a tough choice whether to save them for one or the other. Note that anti-naval interdiction is dependent upon # of targets in range - so naval forces (including embarked) should be moved in-bulk: Move the entire fleet into enemy territory as much as a group as possible. If you, instead, move them their entire MPs one-at-a-time then expect them to be sunk one-at-a-time.

[Lobster]

And then there are the crazy results where a regiment is defeated by a company. Rare but it happens. That's the random factor that's thrown in that makes you throw your mouse across the room.
https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopic.php?t=404859

[Curtis Lemay]

And then there are the crazy results where a regiment is defeated by a company. Rare but it happens. That's the random factor that's thrown in that makes you throw your mouse across the room.
https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopic.php?t=404859

Note that that company was supported by two artillery regiments.

[Lobster]

Yup, and the Axis was supported by 18 artillery batteries, battalions and regiments.
I suppose the Axis failed some kind of check in that battle. And they were massed so heavy casualties. Probably should have rethought that attack.

[voroshilov17]

Wow big thanks Curtis! That's pretty valuable information!

Intuitively, it's not much different from the old CRT stuff. Combat odds are what matter. The one difference concerns the difference between soft and hard targets. Soft targets should have lots of AP directed at them (especially including artillery). Hard targets aren't very vulnerable to AP and must have lots of AT directed at them instead.

Soft targets are the same as Infantry and Hard targets are the same as Vehicles? Or how can this information (very valuable by the way) be checked quicly? I mean, the manual speaks of terrain effects on AP, AT, but does not talk about soft or hard targets in combat.

Try to deny support to defenders by knocking that support out of support deployments (via bombardments). Try to deny entrenchment to defenders by knocking them out of entrenchment (via bombardments).

I didn't understand this part. I mean, I do understand what means to "deny entrenchments to defenders". It is done by bombarding enemy defending units, therefore reducing its entrenchment status down from F to E, or to E or to D or to none. But what does "deny support to defenders by knocking that support out of support deployments" mean and how is it accomplished?

Be aware of cooperation issues as the penalties can be severe. Same for combat density issues. Same for terrain issues. Same for entrenchment issues. Same for unit health issues.

How does "health" affect the combat other than being an indicator of the unit's Quality?

[Curtis Lemay]

Soft targets are the same as Infantry and Hard targets are the same as Vehicles?

Hard targets are the same as Armored Vehicles. Soft targets are anything that is not armored.

But what does "deny support to defenders by knocking that support out of support deployments" mean and how is it accomplished?

By bombardment => convert them from entrenched to mobile or worse. Mobile deployment doesn't support.

How does "health" affect the combat other than being an indicator of the unit's Quality?

Low quality alone has adverse impact on the unit's performance. Also, if the unit has already retreated or routed in the turn, it's Loss Tolerance is automatically set to "Minimize Losses" => very easy to retreat further.

[voroshilov17]

By bombardment => convert them from entrenched to mobile or worse. Mobile deployment doesn't support.

Mmmm could you please give an example for this? I think I didn't get it right. So let's suppose I am attacking and the enemy is defending. You are saying that if the enemy has artillery on D,E or F levels, this artillery will support the defenders, and if there is "mobile" it will not support? So by bombarding those artillery units, I will put them in lower entrenchment levels and thus, they will no support?

Also, this support isn't made automatically, right? It depends if the enemy puts the artillery on "tactical reserve", right?

[Curtis Lemay]

By bombardment => convert them from entrenched to mobile or worse. Mobile deployment doesn't support.

Mmmm could you please give an example for this? I think I didn't get it right. So let's suppose I am attacking and the enemy is defending. You are saying that if the enemy has artillery on D,E or F levels, this artillery will support the defenders, and if there is "mobile" it will not support? So by bombarding those artillery units, I will put them in lower entrenchment levels and thus, they will no support?

Did you look at the link I posted in the first post? That article contains multiple instances of artillery being knocked out of support mode.

Also, this support isn't made automatically, right? It depends if the enemy puts the artillery on "tactical reserve", right?

Actually, you can't knock a unit out of "tactical reserve". Only out of the entrenched deployments.

[voroshilov17]

Did you look at the link I posted in the first post? That article contains multiple instances of artillery being knocked out of support mode.

Yes! but what I don't quite understand is what “artillery in support mode” means. It's a new concept for me. Do you mean that (in a situation where I attack and the enemy defends), any enemy artillery “in range” will support the hex under attack? Regardless of its status: mobile, tactical, defending, entrenched, fortified?
I mean, what is "support deployment"? Is it by default? Does artillery by defoult support defending axis on range?

Hard targets are the same as Armored Vehicles. Soft targets are anything that is not armored.

Why does then the manual (13.12 section) separate the terrain efects on anti-armor, anti-personell, vehicles, infantry and static equipment? Why does not put it all together in armor, not armor?

[Curtis Lemay]

Yes! but what I don't quite understand is what “artillery in support mode” means. It's a new concept for me. Do you mean that (in a situation where I attack and the enemy defends), any enemy artillery “in range” will support the hex under attack? Regardless of its status: mobile, tactical, defending, entrenched, fortified?
I mean, what is "support deployment"? Is it by default? Does artillery by defoult support defending axis on range?

See 13.11: "Artillery units will not support combats if they have Mobile, Retreated, or Routed deployments."

Hard targets are the same as Armored Vehicles. Soft targets are anything that is not armored.

Why does then the manual (13.12 section) separate the terrain efects on anti-armor, anti-personell, vehicles, infantry and static equipment? Why does not put it all together in armor, not armor?

Because all those other factors impact the results as well. But Hard/Soft targets are as I stated.

[voroshilov17]

See 13.11: "Artillery units will not support combats if they have Mobile, Retreated, or Routed deployments."

Oh, that’s new for me. So every artillery unit on range will always support the defender hex unless it is Mobile, Retreated or on route? It doesn’t have anything to do with tactical reserve mode?
And if an artillery unit is downgraded from E to D, it will support the defense?

Because all those other factors impact the results as well. But Hard/Soft targets are as I stated.

So which modificadors take into account? For example imagine I have a motorized infantry unit defending. Which modifications do I take into account? The greatest number between Anti-armor and vehicles for anti-armor, and the greatest number between anti-personnel and vehicles for anti-personnel combat? (According to 13.12.5 that between two multipliers, only the greatest one is taken into account)

[Curtis Lemay]

See 13.11: "Artillery units will not support combats if they have Mobile, Retreated, or Routed deployments."

Oh, that’s new for me. So every artillery unit on range will always support the defender hex unless it is Mobile, Retreated or on route? It doesn’t have anything to do with tactical reserve mode?
And if an artillery unit is downgraded from E to D, it will support the defense?

Provided they have full cooperation with the defense, any deployment except the three listed above will support.

Because all those other factors impact the results as well. But Hard/Soft targets are as I stated.

So which modificadors take into account? For example imagine I have a motorized infantry unit defending. Which modifications do I take into account? The greatest number between Anti-armor and vehicles for anti-armor, and the greatest number between anti-personnel and vehicles for anti-personnel combat? (According to 13.12.5 that between two multipliers, only the greatest one is taken into account)

It is determined (and applied) at the equipment level.