New Medium Titan to import...

[GeneSteeler]

Howdy,
To those of you I haven't met, I'm relatively new to TOSWS and just made my first Titan. It appears to do quite well in battle, but still runs a bit hot. If you have any ideas for improvement, please let me know, feedback is requested and most welcome.

Niche:
Heavily armoured short-close combat titan. Built to take a beating but keep on ticking. Uses BRGs and DFA to knock down opponant and Chainsaw to carve it up (called shots quite doable once the enemy is knocked down). Built specifically for novice-regular jocks. (medium laser installed as a 'back-up' weapon to BRGs when either disabled, or the BRG "unbalancing" efect is not required.)

Playtesting:
Runs quite hot if care is not taken at controlling the times to use the BRGx2.

Possible modifications required:
Increase Heat Regulator at the expense of armour or Med Laser. LA armour would need to be replaced with Titanium to allow for adequate space of heat sink. This would result in even more weight.
Engine appears sufficient to give adequate recharging of BRGs. Limiting factor appears to be heat dissipation. Possible solution: refer above or decrease engine size?

Here it is:

Titan Name: Spider Short Range Medium Titan
Chassis: Krios K-M1 Design: Anarchy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 100.0t (100t maximum) Height : 11 [meter]
Bmt : 28 (42 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.97C/sec.
Jmt : 12 (100 kph) for 60 secs Cost : 222791($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Krios K4 [Engine 4] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Delinit H6 [Heat 6]
D.C.S. : Repakoff [D.C.S.1] [LT ]
LifeSup.: B.M.I. [Life 3] [Head]
Scanner : Triton [Scan. 4] [LT ]
Computer: Krios K5 [Comp. 5] [CBT ]
JumpPort: Morola MJ [Jump 4]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[LA ] BLACK RAY GUN
[RA ] CHAIN SAW
[RT ] BLACK RAY GUN
[Head] MEDIUM LASER


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 019 [028mm]
[RT ] (21) Vicenium (W) 037 [063mm]
[CT ] (21) Dullaroy (S) 041 [059mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (S) 016 [027mm]
[LT ] (21) Vicenium (W) 037 [063mm]
[RA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 034 [057mm]
[LA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 034 [057mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 034 [057mm]
[RL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[LL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]

Armor Index: 4.98 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 180 [APts]
External: 318 [APts] Max:[066mm]
Total Armor: 498 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Medium Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Scanner
Skills : D.C.

[Xcorps]

drop either one of the BRG, or the ML and CS, cut the jump to 3 maybe. I'd change the armor all around so that the better coverage is on the legs and lower torso. The lower torso armor as it stands is pathetic. If you lose a leg or LowT, you fall down. If you loose an arm or R/L torso you can still move and fight.

Personally, I'd drop DCS, and bring LS to 1. Add ECM (if you have power to spare) and more armor.

The armor is way to low for a close range titan IMHO.

[Thorgrim]

There's already a light Spider, you should choose another name for this.
I wouldn't exactly call it heavily armored, for a CC titan, it has about average armor for a medium. Remember that heavier chassis can carry more armor.
Heat dissipation is quite insufficient for the 2 BRGs. It should have ~4C/sec. Most energy weapons need ~2C/sec each for continuous fire. Looks like a refit of the Highlander. The Highlander also has heat problems.
The engine is insufficient too, when running. Only 3 PUs available for recycling weapons - if you fire the ML, that's the one that'll get the most PUs at start, only 1 PU will go to the BRG(s). When standing still, 6 PUs are available, but at point blank you'll need more than that. 1 for the CS, 1 for the JPs recharging, and 2 or 3 for HtH (leg actuator(s), for/from DfA; punch).

You can remove 1mm in the side torsos, same APs. You can then up LOT armor to 36.


With the following armor layout, you can squeeze some more heat reduction out of the HR6 (to 3.30), plus adding flares 1 to the LT (or upgrading BC to 6, or LS to 4 by moving the ML to the RA), at the cost of some CT and side torso armor. Notice that I didn't touch the engine or the HR.

Code: Select all

 [Head] (11) Dullaroy  HMAX 019 [028mm]
 [RT  ] (21) Vicenium  (W)  033 [055mm]
 [CT  ] (21) Millenia  MAX  033 [066mm]
 [CBT ] (13) Vicenium  (S)  016 [027mm]
 [LT  ] (21) Millenia  MAX  033 [066mm]
 [RA  ] (21) Vicenium  (W)  033 [055mm]
 [LA  ] (21) Vicenium  (W)  033 [055mm]
 [LowT] (13) Vicenium       034 [057mm]
 [RL  ] (19) Millenia  MAX  033 [066mm]
 [LL  ] (19) Millenia  MAX  033 [066mm]
 
 Armor Index:   4.80 [Total APts/T]
 Internal:    180  [APts]
 External:    300  [APts]   Max:[066mm]
 Total Armor: 480  [APts]
 

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: Xcorps

drop either one of the BRG, or the ML and CS, cut the jump to 3 maybe. I'd change the armor all around so that the better coverage is on the legs and lower torso. The lower torso armor as it stands is pathetic. If you lose a leg or LowT, you fall down. If you loose an arm or R/L torso you can still move and fight.

Personally, I'd drop DCS, and bring LS to 1. Add ECM (if you have power to spare) and more armor.

The armor is way to low for a close range titan IMHO.

Cutting JPs to 3 will bring jump time down so that instead of 4 jumps you only get 3.
I don't see why LOT armor is pathetic. A leg has a higher probability of going before the LOT gives.
Power is already a problem, so adding ECM will only aggravate it.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Here's what I ended up with after playing around with the design[:)]




Titan Name: Sickle Short Range Medium Titan
Chassis: Krios K-M1 Design: Anarchy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 100.0t (100t maximum) Height : 11 [meter]
Bmt : 28 (42 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.36C/sec.
Jmt : 13 (92 kph) for 52 secs Cost : 227900($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Delinit H6 [Heat 6]
Flares : FL Large [Flare2] [CT ]
D.C.S. : Repakoff [D.C.S.1] [LT ]
LifeSup.: Phillippi [Life 2] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys L [Scan. 3] [Head]
Computer: Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [CBT ]
JumpPort: Coltos [Jump 3]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[LA ] BLACK RAY GUN
[RT ] BLACK RAY GUN
[RA ] CHAIN SAW


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 019 [028mm]
[RT ] (21) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[CT ] (21) Titanium MAX 036 [066mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (S) 016 [027mm]
[LT ] (21) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[RA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 033 [055mm]
[LA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 033 [055mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[RL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[LL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]

Armor Index: 4.82 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 180 [APts]
External: 302 [APts] Max:[066mm]
Total Armor: 482 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Medium Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Defense Scanner
Skills : D.C. Medic Scout






Renamed it: Sickle
Dropped the ML: Not enough power to really run it, and not a big enough need for it as a back up, the BRGs will make do, besides the BRGs starts forest fires VERY well.
Uped the engine by a size to give a extra PU, still not enough to 'fully' power the titan in all situations but enough if you recognize what situations will put your PUs in a bind.
Armor: overall you're version was a tad better then average. I trimmed some from the arms, CT, and, LoT. in exchange for a better cooling rate. My playstyle would dictate to try to keep the enemy on the ground with the BRGs before closeing with the Chainsaw, then DFA just as the enemy tries to stand [;)] Hit 'em with the DFA, fist, chainsaw, then if thier still standing... open up with the BRGs agian.
I did sacrifice a bit on the scanner, LS, and JJs. in order to better the BC, add flares, and engine Hardest call was the JJs but I don't like closing 4 hexes for a DFA, too much can change before you get there.

Lots of personal 'designer's calls' in mine. Each player tends to build titans that fit thier individual playstyles, but in the long run no tweaked design is significantly better then the other until a playstyle is defined. I think the only strong suggestion from me would be to lose the ML... It's just too much with too little gain. IMO.

As for the DCS... the titans is pushing it for PUs and runs warm.. a crit. to the engine or heat regs, would be harder for this titan to compensate for then others, so it needs a chance to prevent/fix these cripple crits, as long as your jock has some skill in damage control.

[rosary]

That thing might be a real terror in the polar regions. Or just make sure you stand in some water if possible. There are other ways to reduce heat.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

ORIGINAL: rosary

That thing might be a real terror in the polar regions. Or just make sure you stand in some water if possible. There are other ways to reduce heat.

Agreed. Water can be your friend![:D] It runs hot and would probably have to take 'cooling breaks' (ie. scans) once it gets it temp built up into yellow/red range.... at least it don't have ammo that will explode hehehe

Only way to get it to run substancially cooler, would be to strip out alot of the electronics. smaller scanner, BC, LS, no flares, no DCS... some combination, but enough to add about 2 levels of HRs (+armor adjustments). That's would be a pretty big change in design though.

[Thorgrim]

Gains:
Bigger engine, but still insufficient for running both BRGs and all HtH/CC in melee.
Marginally better flares (+5% vs GMH).
Marginally better BC (+2%; don't think it'll significantly affect lock time - which isn't all that important here anyway).
Slightly better heat reduction.
+3 AP in CT.

Losses:
Flares cannot be launched when prone face down.
LS efficiency greatly diminished (-2HP).
Scans slower and less efficient - this is a CC design with called shots in mind. Lower ranges and VH.
Jumps are slower (slightly lower defensive mod) and shorter (JPs are very useful beyond DfA).
ML as a fast recycling, longer range, less heat generating (slower heat buildup), good vs moving targets, firing when prone weapon.
-1 AP LOT.
Cost.


The problem with the titan is trying to pack 2 BRGs with not enough power and heat dissipation to match. You can only have the firepower OR the systems, not both - basic design philosophy.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

ORIGINAL: Thorgrim
Flares cannot be launched when prone face down.

Opps. Missed this trying out differnet systems... swap scanner and flare locations.

The problem with the titan is trying to pack 2 BRGs with not enough power and heat dissipation to match. You can only have the firepower OR the systems, not both - basic design philosophy.

Totally agreed. The 2BRG/Chainsaw med. titan will work, but with some significant downsides. It's tring to put a little too much into a medium design. From a purely design standpoint it would be much more efficent to either consentrate 'solely' on the 2 BRGs giving them enough power and heat reduction (Instigator) or to concentrate focus more on the CC aspects. (something with 2 Chainsaws and 1 BRG) either of these approaches would yield a more efficent design....

All that said, efficentecy isn't everything [:)] How the titan 'fits in' with the rest of the squad can count for a bunch that isn't taken into account when we 'nitpik' these designs. If the titan works excedingly well in your squad... keep it. Don't fix things that aren't broken.[:)] Also, if the design is 'fun' to play, that's what really matters! I've run more then a few 'less-then-optimal' designs before just because they were fun to play and what they 'could' do when everything worked out right.

This being a first attempt at a personal design, it's actually pretty good and I'm looking forward to see what other designs Genestealer comes up with in the future.

[LarkinVB]

I enjoy reading about titan design philosophies but I have none of my own. I create a jock and try to allocate a 'tool' which will fit his/her skills and my playstyle. For me this is more important than theoretical optimisations. I play a few battles and start tweaking or changing titans according to the outcome and mix of the squad. Its a dynamical process. I'm pretty sure my top two jocks (hero+ rank with 220000+ xps) had driven a lot of sub optimal titans in their past and maybe still do. Need for certain titans change with my skills. Therefore I'm pretty sure there are lots of superior titan builders out there and I'm happy for the work of Iceman and BBlue aka sleeping Dragon for a solid basis to choose from. Most of my actual titans are tweaked designs. My favorite jock, Ripley is riding a Green Dragon (2 Gauss and 2 HMGS) were I subsituted both HMGs for a plasma and large laser. Being good at cannons and energy weapons does allow for being effective against shielded and unshielded opposition. Together with a superior shield of my own and an good D.C.S she is capable of dealing lots of damage and hard to kill. I just miss the chance to lay smoke. Maybe swap a Gauss for an AC12 but I love the Gauss called shot capability. Its more likely I trade one or both of the LMGs for an AC4.

Why did I write this .... I don't know ....

[rosary]

Well, I have to admit that I only use stock Titans normally. Usually, when I create a new Titan its because it falls into a category that is not contained in the Stock. Its not the most efficient method. What really surprises me is that a Titan-AT that would not normally do a good job by itself fits so well into a team that it becomes the unstoppable killer of the group.

[GeneSteeler]

First off, a huge "thank-you" for all your input.

I'm sorry for the lateness of my reply, but I was quite "unavailable" over the 4-day Easter break.

I'll definitely take the above comments into close consideration as I 'tweak' the Titan tonight. Sorry about the name duplication *blush*

Squad Anarchy will be back in action tonight (lord willing), so I'll send in a AAR in the appropriate forum and comment here about what tweaks I made and what did (and didn't) work.

- Gene [8D]

[GeneSteeler]

Here is the updated Titan, I kept the Sickle name for now (Although I was toying with the name "Squid" as it shoots "black rays", immobilizes it's opponant and goes in for the close kill - But perhaps sea creature names aren't in vogue [;)]). The modifications are quite similar to what Bblue suggested, although I removed the flares and upped the DCS. This is probably a "style" modification, but also, as this titan is designed specifically for novice-regular, I haven't been fighting very many GMH titans to warrant the flares (also, the "Sickle" doesnt often stay in one place very long). By increasing the Engine/Heat config, I was able to alternate firing the BRGs, theorhetically just knocking the opponant back to the ground every time he stands up. In reality, it doesn't work quite that "surefire", but when it works, it's pretty. Perhaps this titan won't be as useful for high level jocks (vs. high level jocks) but at this tonnage/experience it worked quite well for me and fit in quite nicely with the rest of my squad.

Titan Name: Sickle Short Range Medium Titan
Chassis: Krios K-M1 Jock: Squad: Anarchy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 100.0t (100t maximum) Height : 11 [meter]
Bmt : 28 (42 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.36C/sec.
Jmt : 13 (92 kph) for 52 secs Cost : 228900($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Delinit H6 [Heat 6]
D.C.S. : Triton R2 [D.C.S.2] [LT ]
LifeSup.: Phillippi [Life 2] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys L [Scan. 3] [Head]
Computer: Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [CBT ]
JumpPort: Coltos [Jump 3]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[LA ] BLACK RAY GUN
[RA ] CHAIN SAW
[RT ] BLACK RAY GUN


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 019 [028mm]
[RT ] (21) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[CT ] (21) Titanium MAX 036 [066mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (S) 016 [027mm]
[LT ] (21) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[RA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 033 [055mm]
[LA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 033 [055mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium 033 [055mm]
[RL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[LL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]

Armor Index: 4.82 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 180 [APts]
External: 302 [APts] Max:[066mm]
Total Armor: 482 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Medium Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Scanner
Skills : D.C. Medic Scout

PS - It's also true what was hinted at above, if the titan runs red, it at least doesn't need to worry about ammo explosions... although I don't think I'd be putting a ML back into the design...

PPS - Hopefully I'll have an AAR typed and posted within 12 hours with the Sickle in action!

As always, any further comments are most welcome.

- Gene [8D]

[LarkinVB]

I suggest removing the D.C.S. for a better life support and/or scanner.

[GeneSteeler]

Well, the Sickle is performing quite nicely. Never changed the name (for historic reasons [;)])

Here is the Minotaur - New 100ton to be piloted by Sarge: Please blast me with comments. The hardest part I have in building a Titan is deciding Eng and HR. Without further ado....


Titan Name: Minotaur Short Range Medium Titan
Chassis: Krios K-M1 Jock: Sarge Squad: Anarchy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 100.0t (100t maximum) Height : 11 [meter]
Bmt : 28 (42 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.36C/sec.
No Jump Ports Cost : 220430($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Triton T6 [Engine 6] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Delinit H6 [Heat 6]
D.C.S. : Triton R2 [D.C.S.2] [RT ]
LifeSup.: Phillippi [Life 2] [Head]
Scanner : Triton [Scan. 4] [CBT ]
Computer: DynamCorp. [Comp. 3] [LT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RA ] TESLA BOLT
[LA ] TESLA BOLT
[Head] MEDIUM LASER


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 019 [028mm]
[RT ] (21) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[CT ] (21) Titanium MAX 036 [066mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (W) 015 [025mm]
[LT ] (21) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[RA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 033 [055mm]
[LA ] (21) Vicenium (W) 033 [055mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 034 [058mm]
[RL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]
[LL ] (19) Millenia MAX 033 [066mm]

Armor Index: 4.82 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 180 [APts]
External: 302 [APts] Max:[066mm]
Total Armor: 482 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Medium Titan
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Scanner
Skills : D.C. Medic


Again the questions are:
1. ML worth it as a backup? Perhaps not - I'm thinking maybe I should just remove and up the Computer. Doesn't weigh much though...
2. Is the engine the right strength?
3. HR sufficient?
4. JPs? Maybe install by removing the ML?

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: GeneSteeler
The hardest part I have in building a Titan is deciding Eng and HR.

Those are the parts that call for some calcs. The rest just sorta falls into place.

[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 034 [058mm]

You can remove 1mm there. That's less 90$ [;)]

1. ML worth it as a backup? Perhaps not - I'm thinking maybe I should just remove and up the Computer. Doesn't weigh much though...

Well, this is basically the same story as with the Sickle.

2. Is the engine the right strength?

If you'd want both TBs to recycle at full speed while running or when in HtH, you'd need an engine 7. But I guess this one will do due to the short range of the weapons and the heat dissipation.

3. HR sufficient?

Short for continuous fire with both TBs. Ideally you'd need 4+ C/sec. But if you stagger your fire...

4. JPs? Maybe install by removing the ML?

You'll need something else, as JP1 weighs 2 tons and ML 1.5.


The design is very similar to the Sickle, basically with weapons being swapped and some small system changes. So there isn't much more to say other than what has already been said I guess [:)]

[GeneSteeler]

I'm sorry, I guess I like my twin big guns and in a Medium Titan there isn't much room for anything else [:'(]

I've removed the ML and lowered the Life Support to put in JPs. Probably a bit crazy, but hey... I *promis* my next build will be a helluva lot different. (My next Titan will likely be designed for Billy or Marshall, and they have quite a different 'style').

- Gene Steeler

[Coyote27]

A heat 6 is NOT gonna be enough- a pair of nm14's on you and you're literally toast. I have a twin tesla medium that can fire indefinitely without heating - it has moderate armor, great scanner and essentially nothing else, but it's fun to use - I just get a yellow scan and aim for the head with every shot

However the Heat 6 is a great choice for not all-energy titans, since it's the best you can get without using arm slots. You can usually eke out a hair over 3c/sec heat dissipation, which is just enough for two ac12's and two srm8's, or a CLG an ac12 and two HMG's, or any other combination that suits you while the total heat adds up to about 3.