Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2

[M4Jess]

Steel Panthers replaced for me board games and opened a grand new highway to the future for us wargamers. This was the fantasy. It was all before me. I was a closet designer then, from way back, hell even had a scen "almost posted" in AHs General magazine.

Even with the "Countless Hours and days and years", giving to this great game, mind you, I am no Wild Bill, Redleg, Brent, and others, I feel I have giving more than I have taken from this game.

I have run into sacrarium, rudeness, and down right threats. I have been called a great designer and a looser designer.

Why?

On the upper side, my design's have thousands of DLs. And the Emails keep coming in.
With that said, and the total nonsupport from Matrix, I will step down from MG and 8.2

I am not looking for a medal, Wild Bill and others such as Redleg and many others deserve the glory. I am only a half-breed designer taught by the best.

A total DL for 8.2 is a total slap in the face. BTW, just how many SPWARs should I have and my HD? How many of us have two plus SPWAW on our PCs now? This 8.2 might be grand, I don't care, I have been hearing "This is the last" for years! And 7.2 was/is much better than 8.0. H2H by Leo rules over all current Vs of SPWAR, Hell he should have stayed with 5.0 H2H and never signed up for 7.1! And I hope he never does H2H 8.0

So I am forced to ask myself, why am I still here?

Well, I love the game, but more so, I love you guys. That's the truth. But. I must warn you all, I am tired of this. One of my biggest highs was the Rman Vs Shoe in Beyond the Beachhead PBEM series. Going into Sealion and soon IWO PBEM I get into it! I sit back and make scens happen. I just don't get this 8.2 thing at all.

I feel MG wants to push out us vets out and bring in the new....so be it

Hell let um...

One more question for Matrix, then I will shut up,

Where is CL?

[Kevin E. Duguay]

Where is CL?

Good question M4. I fear that it's still under construction.

Oh! and

[Oxtane]

Hear! Hear Jess! Very good question!

[Gallo Rojo]

Ok... I'm agree with Jess here.

I have 3 version of Steel Panthers in my HD, but non of them are the oficial Matrix ones.
I have instaled the SPH2H.fr, the SPWW2 and the SPMBT.

I'm really waiting for CL ... but I won't buy it inmediately after it'r release ... I will wait a litte and see what some people that I knew in this forum and whos opinion I respect says about it.

[varjager]

ORIGINAL: M4Jess

Steel Panthers replaced for me board games and opened a grand new highway to the future for us wargamers. This was the fantasy. It was all before me. I was a closet designer then, from way back, hell even had a scen "almost posted" in AHs General magazine.

Even with the "Countless Hours and days and years", giving to this great game, mind you, I am no Wild Bill, Redleg, Brent, and others, I feel I have giving more than I have taken from this game.

I have run into sacrarium, rudeness, and down right threats. I have been called a great designer and a looser designer.

Why?

On the upper side, my design's have thousands of DLs. And the Emails keep coming in.
With that said, and the total nonsupport from Matrix, I will step down from MG and 8.2

I am not looking for a medal, Wild Bill and others such as Redleg and many others deserve the glory. I am only a half-breed designer taught by the best.

A total DL for 8.2 is a total slap in the face. BTW, just how many SPWARs should I have and my HD? How many of us have two plus SPWAW on our PCs now? This 8.2 might be grand, I don't care, I have been hearing "This is the last" for years! And 7.2 was/is much better than 8.0. H2H by Leo rules over all current Vs of SPWAR, Hell he should have stayed with 5.0 H2H and never signed up for 7.1! And I hope he never does H2H 8.0

So I am forced to ask myself, why am I still here?

Well, I love the game, but more so, I love you guys. That's the truth. But. I must warn you all, I am tired of this. One of my biggest highs was the Rman Vs Shoe in Beyond the Beachhead PBEM series. Going into Sealion and soon IWO PBEM I get into it! I sit back and make scens happen. I just don't get this 8.2 thing at all.

I feel MG wants to push out us vets out and bring in the new....so be it

Hell let um...

One more question for Matrix, then I will shut up,

Where is CL?

M4Jess, i say that you deserv a medal.Been playing you scens and i do love em.
You have devoted countless of hours for us to enjoy the game so dont be shy!


I salute you and your effort for this game ! I will stick with the 3 versions of Spwaw i allready have on my HD.

Cheers! And please start placing those mines!

[STEELER13]

Yo Jess,
As one of the many who enjoy your scenarios, please rest assured I will burn and send you a copy of 8.2. if you unable to download it.
Everyone else, as I said, the charitable offer is still in effect---and I am happy to send an 8.2 cd for your donation to Disabled American Vets or your local Children's Hospital(and the donation is made by you directly---not through me as someone worriedly emailed me).

That being said, after Matrix put in that awesome "true update" feature, I doubt that they would offer 8.2 as a whole new download unless they couldn't avoid it. Has it been officially stated that it will be a whole new download?
Just checking.

Thank you.

[Jim1954]

Steeler, I don't think anything has been stated "Officially" as of yet, but I've been wrong before.

[Jackk]

ORIGINAL: M4Jess

A total DL for 8.2 is a total slap in the face. BTW, just how many SPWARs should I have and my HD? How many of us have two plus SPWAW on our PCs now?

They said it will be full-only download?

I have 2 versions only. One is H2H and I wouldn't have that if a friend and I weren't PBEMing in it.

I also was one that enjoyed the DARs of Beyond the Beachhead. I found it late in the game, but went back and read all 512 entries so I could get the full impact of it. Great reading stuff and fun scenarios.

*Just a random post*

[rbrunsman]

It was nice to feel like I had my own personal scenario designer for a whole year taking me through the D-day action.[:)] Of course, I was on the winning side of that series of battles.[;)]

I've got three versions on my computer; v7.1, H2H.fr and v8.01. I haven't really noticed a huge difference between v7 and v8 other than the screwup of the cost of the units. I can't wait to see what was done to make us all in awe over the new "improvements."

[KG Erwin]

I haven't heard officially whether 8.2 will be available as a patch. However, considering that the full 8.2 game will be the largest free download Matrix has ever offered, I don't know if it makes any sense to offer a separate patch.

This is why I requested that guys with CD burners help distribute the full 8.2, to prevent the download servers from getting bogged down and frustrating those with dial-up connections. This is my suggestion, not Matrix'.

[shadow151]

well how bout just having a list posted of all the new files in 8.2 and someone can download the whole thing, make a patch and host on their own website? I have spwaw v8.01, spww2 and spmbt but i have v7 backedup on a cd. I think i probably will try to get a friend to download me h2h as i only have dail up.

[Steve Wilcox]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

I haven't heard officially whether 8.2 will be available as a patch. However, considering that the full 8.2 game will be the largest free download Matrix has ever offered, I don't know if it makes any sense to offer a separate patch.

Uh, maybe I'm dumb, but why would it not make sense to have a patch? I would have thought a patch would be the first priority. Since when do new versions of the same game require a whole new game, instead of just a patch? It's not like we're going from SPWAW to Combat Leader.

About two-thirds of the size of the unzipped install of 8.0 is sounds...does 8.2 have all new sounds or something?[&:]

[VikingNo2]

RB play the Brits them and the Russians are very much more deadly in 8.01 as sompaired to 7.1

[Alby]

who said it was another full game download???[&:]

[rbrunsman]

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

RB play the Brits them and the Russians are very much more deadly in 8.01 as sompaired to 7.1

Well, I have experienced the Russians being tougher, and I'm happy to hear that the Brits are too. But none of this is an earth shattering change in the way the game plays.

People seem to be getting bent out of shape waiting for something that will have changes that are hardly noticeable as far as I'm concerned (and the vast majority of casual players). But, heck, since they OOB Team isn't sharing any of their TOP SECRET details and all is hush-hush from them, who am I to say one way or the other...

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: rbrunsman

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

RB play the Brits them and the Russians are very much more deadly in 8.01 as sompaired to 7.1

Well, I have experienced the Russians being tougher, and I'm happy to hear that the Brits are too. But none of this is an earth shattering change in the way the game plays.

People seem to be getting bent out of shape waiting for something that will have changes that are hardly noticeable as far as I'm concerned (and the vast majority of casual players). But, heck, since they OOB Team isn't sharing any of their TOP SECRET details and all is hush-hush from them, who am I to say one way or the other...

Well, for AI players, the AI purchase routines for all major nations have been altered to provide a more challenging generated or long campaign experience. As my AARs on USMC vs Japan have demonstrated, it's definitely more challenging. Much depends on your preferences--I play with true troop ON, rarity OFF.

The rarity issue is the killer--for PBEM players, this issue and related costs are the be-all and end-all. In 8.2, many costs have been adjusted, but these same costs also have to apply to solo play. The Team has no magic wand or formula--this has been an endless subject of controversy.

This is also the thing that frustrates me the most--providing a variety of options, adding historical and in some cases what-if units, and making sure that players have the option of buying historical formations if they want, was my personal mission in contributing to the team.

Nothing is being done "in secret"-- a forum for making suggestions to 8.2 exists.

All that being said, I firmly believe that 8.2 will provide the most realistic selection for forces in all nations that we can give you. Is it perfect? No. Will it ever be perfect? No. Will there be complaints on our decisions? Yes.

We could still be arguing about imperfections in the OOBs when the sun burns out. Support for SPWaW will be an ongoing thing, but for OOB updates, I sincerely hope that 8.2 will be the end.

[Goblin]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Nothing is being done "in secret"-- a forum for making suggestions to 8.2 exists.

So where is the published list of changes? Why will they not talk about them? The suggestion thread are suggestions from US, which means that they are, of course, not secret. It's any information about 8.2 coming down the line that appears to be Top Secret.


Goblin

[KG Erwin]

Ok, here is the incomplete list for the USMC--many changes have been subsequently done, so I'll add them soon. These notes illustrate the collaborative nature of the OOB team's work:

"Added weapon 81 - another 4.5 Rocket with long range and add these to USMC Off Map Rocket Unit 128 weapons. Truck Rct unit 129 uses the 88 hex rockets. - Bryan -


>(notes added by Glenn Higginbotham 14 Jan 2004)
>(19 January 2004--formation availability change--see below)
>(24 January 2004--tank unit & formation changes--see below)
>(30 January 2004--amphib tank formations fixed--see below)
>Proposed Changes:
>
>Weapon/Unit/Formation# Original Stat New Stat
> (Units 21 -27 -- changed carry capacity to 13 to accomodate F squads--BM done)
>(Unit 22--added M4A1 Sherman from US Army--cost stays as is, availability April 1943-end 1945-- GH DONE)
>(Units 21, 23, 24, 25 have availability dates changed to match historical usage-- GH DONE)
>(Units 40 [M9 Bazooka] & 91 [M1 Bazooka] have accuracy changed to 8 and 4,
>respectively--GH DONE)
>(Unit 53 [Jeep 60mm]-availability in Jan 49--GH DONE)
>(Unit 55 [Jeep, 1 man crew] --classed as 32-Scout Vehicle for carrying
>Recon Teams--GH DONE) (Unit 56 [Jeep] -- increase crew size to 2--GH DONE)
>(Unit 57 [Jeep w/30 cal] -- increaded cost to 14, to match US Army--GH
>DONE)
>(Unit 110 -- Lt Mortar crews changed to 4--GH DONE)
>Formation (1045 & 1046--availability begin Jan 1949--GH DONE)
>1132 change to platoon, special set to 0 --> DONE
>
>196, 197, 198 Medium Bombers change LBM from 0 to 853---> DONE
>
>To eliminate the M8 HMC Scott, I edited unit 047--> DONE 047 M4 105mm
>Change rarity from 0 to 3 --> DONE
>
>091 M8 HMC Scott changed class from 21-SP Artillery to 10- OffMap
>artillery.--> DONE Therefore neither of the M8 HMC Scott units will be
>available for purchase but they will remain available for Campaign players
>to buy in an upgrade if they wish. Also any scenarios or campaigns that
>have used these units will continue to have the units available for use as
>the scenario designer originally intended. (EXCELLENT STUART)
>
>
>To complete the fix, formations need to be corrected.
>(Formations 1010, 1011, 1013 changed to accomodate M4A1s--GH DONE)
>1014, 1015, 1016 change start dates from January 1944 to September 1945 and
>change the unit to 047.----> DONE <------ TOE for Formation 1015 CS-Tank
>Plt needs to be checked for historicity.
>
>1016 is an illegal formation because it contains a company formation
>1018---> DONE <---- Therefore to correct the build of Formation 1016 I made
>the following changes. These changes only correct the structure of the
>formations and are not checked for historical correctness.
>
>1016 Replace Unit 4 (1018) with Unit 2 (1038) Replace Unit 2 (1038) with
>unit 030 Add units 5 and 6 Insert formations 1031 and 1034. --> DONE
>
>1019 Replace units 4 and 5 M8 HMC Scott with units 047 I suspect this
>platoon to be incorrect and that the CS vehicle should be a halftrack.
>1045 Mot Mortar -- 60mm mortar and jeep
>1046 Mot Mortar Sec -- two 60mm mortars with jeeps

>GLENN - WHAT DO YOU THINK? (Agree--replace unit 47 with unit 87--GH)
>
>who will do this?
>
>(I went ahead and made the change--see note on addition of Unit 88, the
>75mm M3A1 GMC--GH DONE)
>
>(Formations 1021 & 1022 have LCVP (211) replaced by LCM (212)--GH DONE)
>
>089 Do not change rarity from 3
>
>Unit 089 This is the M3 halftrack carrying the 75mm Howitzer for SPA duty.
>As far as I know this unit was not issued to USMC. Please check. (Not
>used--this unit should be deleted-GH)
>
>the rarity 3 code should eliminate the unit from the purchase list.
>Deleting the unit might cause problems to scenarios and campaigns. Please
>check that this unit is not available for purchase.
>
>1117, 1118 change units to 090 and availability to April 45 to 49 --> DONE
>
>087 Check availability dates especially the start date. My info says these
>were available for action in the Philippines in Dec 1941. Later versions
>carried the 75mm M1917A4 gun Maybe we can replace Unit 089 with a newer
>version of the M3 GMC? (087) GLENN---ALL FOR YOU---(There was a GMC M3A1--I
>have no specifics on it--GH)
>
>Simply copy the M3 to a new slot and replace the gun. Then change the start
>date

>to some time in 1942. There is discussion on this on the Forum.

>(OK. Unit 88 is the GMC M3A1, with the 75mm 1917A4. Unit 87 is now
>available from Dec 1941 to end 1942, and the new unit 88 avilable from Aug
>42 to end 45. Also note that weapon 34, the 75mm 1897A2, has no AP pen. I
>changed this to match what was in US Army--AP pen is now 86--GH DONE)
>
>(Formation 1023 now available beginning December 1941--GH DONE)
>
>211 LCVP has Carry Capacity of 232. This means it can load a tank. CC s/b
>1## Changed CC to 132--> DONE
>
>Weapon 109. I have mentioned this before. These weapons had a maximum range
>of 1000 yards. The rocket LCS had to get in real close to fire at the
>target Currently in OOB's these weapons have an effective range of 4800
>yards. NEED TO CHECK THIS OUT - GLENN - YOUR CALL--(Agree--max range is
>actually 1100 yards--GH)
>

>make note to check this in ALL allied OOB's.

>(Range of 4.5 Rockets changed from 224 to 88--all OOBs have been
>changed--GH DONE)
>
>If you change the class of 210 to 110-SP Rocket Launcher, the unit will
>have indirect fire capability. Move sound would have to be edited to the
>sound for landing craft. (066). Needs to be tested. NEED TO CHECK THIS OUT
>- GLENN - YOUR CALL

>(The Rocket Landing Craft were tested and sound is correct--GH DONE)
>
>cost of 210 relative to 206, 210 should be much more expensive. ---> DONE
><---
>
>1190 Landing Support Change unit to any other unit 205-209 NEED TO CHECK
>THIS OUT - GLENN - YOUR CALL--(All same type, or leave mix as is?--I don't
>use them--GH) When buying these you get either all one type (the default)
>or all a different type (your choice) If the formation is built up from a
>mixture, the player gets

>this choice of mixture first and then he can buy all one type - his choice-
>by

>selecting the choice. It is not a TOE issue but a game purchase choice
>issue."

>(I simply left the 1190 mix as it was--GH DONE)

> (Formations 1196 and 1198 now show correct configuration--GH DONE)"


I hope you don't fail to notice that we've been tweaking and testing this database for five months. For other OOBs, a similar effort has been undertaken.

[Alby]

Well, we have seen the list of USMC changes,
a couple times now, thanks for posting them, but, Im sure Goblin was refering to more than just the USMC changes again.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

WE, not Matrix Games necessarily, all have collectively done this to ourselves guys.

Ever since I discovered Steel Panthers WaW, I have watched as users constantly and continuously fiddled with the game.

This is our doing guys, as much as it's anyones doing.

Look at your feet, notice the bullet holes

Each time we have fussed over the core game, we have effectively fiddled with that which runs all of our user based creations.

It isn't Matrix Games and a few select people and always just a few select people, and always the same few select people responsible for the game currently waiting for version 8.2

We all have a hand in this.

I am not siding with any one group, because we are all collectively guilty here.

I have not minded the incessant downloads, but I am lucky. I invest the funds to possess a DSL connection, and downloading 8.2 won't really mean anything to me.

But I recall my first download pre DSL service, and man what an experience that was.
Each day we might be adding to our ranks, but each version we might be purging them as well.
Maybe that is a hidden reason the Mega Campaigns have not sold faster (I have no idea though).

That a Mega Campaign has been the most secure wargaming investment I have ever made is a given. I have yet to buy anything that even gets to being half as solid a prchase.

But each MC came out with a new version. We might have been harming ourselves while indulging ourselves.

And again, let me stress, we are all guilty. Right down to the last member that has ever posted a comment for or against a something being done to modify the game.

It's not about whether 8.2 will be the better version me thinks, but whether we are doing ourselves any favours by constantly making older versions no longer viable, and all the custom work that was done while those versions were the versions that counted.

I see a lot of scenarios out there, but I tend to only play stuff that is built into the core program download. That is because, I am always wondering, will that custom scenario work?
I ponder this openly, have we created a lack of confidence in our previous creations?

We can't constantly be re inventing the game and expect it to have no repercussions.

Thus, when 8.2 is released, it will not be important what is right or wrong with it, but whether re doing this or that is in the long run doing us any favours.