Luskan versus Mogami.

[Luskan]

CD units of a certain tpye (size) cannot be moved. But smaller ones you can move (and these are big enough to put a hole in anything smaller than a bb in their way - they really damage transports). These are what I'm stacking at Singapore in my other AAR.

Of course, the BBs at kwajalein were unharmed by the CD unit - not a scratch. The nells had already sunk west virginia and Colorado by then. Oklamhoma got off scott free (and sank that I boat lets not forget!!!)

[soeren]

I think an CD unit ( with some ecxeptions like Singapore ) are just Artillery units detailed to defense a coastal area. They may be raised specially for coastal defense and not very mobile once emplaced, but you could always take the whole unit ( including guns ) and ship it somewhere else.

[byron13]

ORIGINAL: Luskan
Of course, the BBs at kwajalein were unharmed by the CD unit - not a scratch. The nells had already sunk west virginia and Colorado by then. Oklamhoma got off scott free (and sank that I boat lets not forget!!!)

My bad: I didn't pay close enough attention to the results. They were sunk by torps.

The truth be told, I think I was so awed by your inspired plan to send the Pacific Fleet after that submarine that all else became immaterial to me. Brilliant plan surpassed only by its flawless execution. Mission accomplished and well done, sir!

[Mr.Frag]

There are CD units and then there are CD units that will make you scream "Mommy"! [:D]

The "Mommy" version are static emplacements and can not be moved. (They show up with a * beside the large guns indicating a static emplacement.)

The normal units are made up of guns smaller then 6". They can be laoded up on ships and taken to forward bases to teach people some manners.

The "Mommy" versions go all the way up to the effectiveness of multiple battleships.

[Gyrene]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

There are CD units and then there are CD units that will make you scream "Mommy"! [:D]

The "Mommy" version are static emplacements and can not be moved. (They show up with a * beside the large guns indicating a static emplacement.)

The normal units are made up of guns smaller then 6". They can be laoded up on ships and taken to forward bases to teach people some manners.

The "Mommy" versions go all the way up to the effectiveness of multiple battleships.

Would be an arduous task attempting to move some of those 16-inch emplacements off the West Coast! [:D]

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

There are CD units and then there are CD units that will make you scream "Mommy"! [:D]

The "Mommy" version are static emplacements and can not be moved. (They show up with a * beside the large guns indicating a static emplacement.)

The normal units are made up of guns smaller then 6". They can be laoded up on ships and taken to forward bases to teach people some manners.

The "Mommy" versions go all the way up to the effectiveness of multiple battleships.

Hi Frag,

So these "Mommy" ones - are they all on the map at the start or do they materialise at islands/bases overtime?

[byron13]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The "Mommy" version are static emplacements and can not be moved.

Static. Yes, that is the term I was looking for.

Seems Mogami found that, while working over Wake, that neither airpower nor bombardment was very effective at reducing CDs. What's the answer for Kwajalein? Six Essex carriers camped on station for two weeks? Other than Singapore, Corregidor, and Kwajalein, are there any other "Mommy" CDs that a player is likely to come up against (in other words, forget Hawaii and California)?

[Mike Scholl]

I'm still waiting for one or both of the participants to comment on the effectiveness
of the CD unit at Kwajalein as opposed to Singapore's. I think at least one of you
fellows once tried a naval bombardment of Singapore in an earlier AAR, and I re-
member being dissappointed at the British results. Now Kwajalein, which was less
heavily fortified than Truk, does a pretty good job on a TF. And Truk had nothing
larger than an 8" gun to my knowledge (I don't know about Kwajalein). All 3 were
pre-war installations and would be more effective than just a "mobile" set of CD guns;
but I would certainly have expected Singapore's results to be at the top of the list
with Kwajalein running a distant 3rd.

[mogami]

Hi, Kwajaleans CD had no effect on the lone USN BB that survived the air attacks to bombard. I should note that prior to the USN TF arrival I had been staging units at Kwajalean for movement to other bases. Including 3 more CD units. I moved Saipan CD unit and 2 others. I planed on moving 1 to Wake and another to Marcus and the third to Tarawa. They had just unloaded from the transport TF (Luskan was hoping to encounter it in surface battle)The CD units had finished unloading 3-4 days before I spotted the USN so I delayed forming the TF's to relocate them. (The transport TF was still off loading supply since AP do not unload supply as fast as they unload ground units.)

[byron13]

You know, Mogami, you need to make these disclosures with or before you all provide the combat results!! Then we crazed wannabe players wouldn't end up with egg on our face.

(where's the egg-on-the-face smiley? Oh, here it is: Well, it looks kind of like egg, anyway)

[mogami]

Hi, I found bombing Wake with CV for a few days did help alot. Most of the report loss on landing was actually caused by using troops that were not prepared for landing.

[Gyrene]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I found bombing Wake with CV for a few days did help alot. Most of the report loss on landing was actually caused by using troops that were not prepared for landing.

Oh just admit it. Those salty dogs of the 1st Defense Bn. put up one hell of a fight! [:D]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: byron13

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The "Mommy" version are static emplacements and can not be moved.

Static. Yes, that is the term I was looking for.

Seems Mogami found that, while working over Wake, that neither airpower nor bombardment was very effective at reducing CDs. What's the answer for Kwajalein? Six Essex carriers camped on station for two weeks? Other than Singapore, Corregidor, and Kwajalein, are there any other "Mommy" CDs that a player is likely to come up against (in other words, forget Hawaii and California)?

I'm not sure where the game puts pre-war "fixed CD installations", but for the US they
were in Manilla Bay, Oahu, the Canal Zone, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and
Puget Sound. For the Japanese, they had major calibre CD units at Tokyo Bay and on
the Tsushima Straights that I'm certain of, and probably at the entrances to the Inland
Sea. Truk was Fortified fairly strongly, though without any BB calibre emplacements or
turrets; and Kwajalein less so. All the US installations mentioned had 12-14" guns, 12"
Mortars, and supporting lighter batteries. What made all these Permanent Fortifications
so deadly was the permanent and pre-calibrated fire-control systems. With years to
prepare to defend one place, everything down to the state of the tides could be worked
out on tables ready for use. And while ships were limited to using a range finder with
a base that they could carry aboard (at very most 100') land batteries could have base
ends a couple miles apart, making triangulation much more accurate. War-time CD
installations (except where added to existing sites) and "mobile CD units" couldn't match
these set-ups (except in the later years when US units had gunnery radar attached)

[TIMJOT]

Speaking of which. Has anyone tested the new Bataan hex rule yet?

[DoomedMantis]

it was tested and found to work, but I cant remember who it was that did the test

[Mike Scholl]

QUESTION FOR MOGAMI. When the Japanese did the Midway Operation, it used a
quite significant portion of their fuel-oil stockpile because for the first time thay put
virtually all their heavy units to sea. I notice you've been making fairly substantial
use of your "battle-line" componants from the opening gun in a number of AAR's.
What effect is the "early and often" use of these "fuel-hogs" having on your supply?
"Operation Shoe-string" was a title given in jest to US Guadalcanal Operations....,
but in a very real sense it could be applied to the entire Japanese Effort during the
War. The Allies never had to base their strategy on where they could fuel their
ships, but the Japanese wound up basing significant elements of theirs in the SRA
not for strategic reasons, but for logistical ones. How well does the game reflect
the Japanese "balancing act" between what they wanted to do, and what they could
afford to attempt?

[Luskan]

As the japs against Raver you'll notice the AAR is very quiet. This is because although I got some supply and fuel at singapore, places I'd been basing my bbs and cvs from (kwajalein, truk, palau, kendari) have all been sucked dry of fuel. So dry that the autoconvoy system has been straining to keep up with the demand (have even had to pull a few tankers off oil duties to move some fuel toward for a while).

[Speedysteve]

With regard to softening up bases prior to invasion -

I see Mogami says above he thinks it helped his Wake invasion. My question is:

Has there been a lot of testing to see the effect of various locations (and their CD defences) against invasion. Also, if pre-invasion bombardments/air strikes have an appreciable effect? I'm thinking that maybe a lot of later war Allied invasions haven't been tested e.g. Marshall, Gilberts, Iwo, Okinawa invasions.........

Regards,

Steven

[mogami]

Hi, Here is how I view pre landing bombardments and air strikes.
Better to have them then not to have them but they alone will not negate the enemy defense. Your still going to suffer during the landing unless the defenders have been out of supply for a long time or were not present in any numbers before the bombardment/air strikes.
Wake still inflicted heavy loss on my Japanese landings however where before without the airstrikes the landing would fail with them they succeeded the first time.

[rhohltjr]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

With regard to softening up bases prior to invasion -

I see Mogami says above he thinks it helped his Wake invasion. My question is:

.... I'm thinking that maybe a lot of later war Allied invasions haven't been tested e.g. Marshall, Gilberts, Iwo, Okinawa invasions.........

Regards,

Steven

Don't stop there Speedy, advancing further, I am also interested in Operation Olympic and Corronet(sp?). Bet they had some [8D]Heavy cruiser caliber CD[8D] on Kyushu. My PW games often ended with my divisions getting slaughtered on Kyushu.