WitP Copy Protection

[kaleun]

The thing is, while she has the book, you can't read it, so it is OK. If you made a copy and gave it to her, that would be piracy

[freeboy]

one book read at a time... the owner.. library etc paid the "right" to read it.. again lets look at why we have to have these laws... because poeple are not honest as a rule and if they could be trusted absolutely no laws.. police etc.... reminds me of a lecture on internal values verses external constraints which dealt with the needs individually or nattionally to have external controls to the degree self regulation(control) fails to meet the social good.

[Mr.Frag]

The customer relation skills are... interesting.

I don't work for Matrix. I work for a fortune 50 company that looses millions of dollars due to software theft. It comes out of my bonus cheque so it pisses me off.

If I can't afford the losses, it is a pretty safe bet a little company like Matrix sure as heck can't.

[freeboy]

Frag,
Hurts everyone.. as costs will go up to compensate for these non sales

[Arnir]

Piracy is one of those topics that gets quite heated. Well, to be more precise, the copy protection schemes get heated. Very few people that I know of publicly try to defend piracy.

I don't have the technical knowledge to know why some cd-roms work and some don't, but I know that the only one I ever had that was problematic was on a pretty expensive Dell.

I don't mind copy protection if it doesn't get in my way. If I paid for it, then I want to be able to use it without hassles. If Matrix, for example, wants me to register to get a backup copy if my original fails, that's fine with me.

My question is: does copy protection hurt the pirates or the consumers more?

[Mr.Frag]

Hurts everyone.. as costs will go up to compensate for these non sales

Not quite, it hurts those of us who *buy* the software. The other scum could not care less. It is great that my country passed a law that puts a dollar tax on a blank cd to drive the prices up and get the people who are hurting the industry.

[freeboy]

In the big picture.. free stuff still costs .. even the stealers .. in the long run.. no offense to anyone in Pittsburg [:D]

[kaleun]

Of course it also gets those that use blank cds for legitimate purposes, like keeping files, pictures etc.
The dollar tax is probably just an additional way for the gov. to get revenue. The piracy issue just the excuse.

And don't get me started about cigarettes!

[Mr.Frag]

Of course it also gets those that use blank cds for legitimate purposes, like keeping files, pictures etc.

Whaaa whaaa whaaa ... apply for your exception for such use. You seem to be so well versed in the law.

As far as your *rights* and the *laws* in place.

If the licence specifically states that you do not have the right under the terms of the licence to make a copy, you are violating the terms of the licence and must immediately destroy the media and documentation. This *has* help up in *both* Canada and the USA.

Btw:

for the Criminals that don't like my views, I really don't care too deeply that you (being Criminals) take offence. Why should my tax dollars pay to feed you in jail? Much easier to just take you out and hang ya by the neck until dead [:'(]

The pure fact that we even have to have these pathetic discussions in the first place says very little about the morals of todays society.

[2Stepper]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Personally, I don't buy the damaged cd thing. I have had computers since before hard disks were invented and I have never lost any software to damage. If you care about it, you'll take care of it. If not, you pay for a replacement.

I'm sure you'll find zero help if you walk into Blockbuster and say your DVD is scratched. They'll be more then happy to sell you a new one and thats about it. Why should software be *any* different then movies/music. You get it, it works. You trash it too bad/so sad but no one really cares.

Copy protection is mandatory these days, not an option. I will lay money that someone here will be posting the software on a service like eMule within the first week of it being released. It is a sad world full of evil people that we live in these days. Don't pretend otherwise.

Couldn't agree more Frag... you make a valid point.

[kaleun]

I don't believe that a license overrules law. (It should, but it doesn't)
And I take exception that anyone that doesn't like your views is a criminal.
A criminal by definition is someone who breaks the law (right or wrong)
I have always respected copyright law, and it irks me that just because I may disagree with you, you call me a criminal.
And that is the end of this topic as far as I'm concerned

[CaptainBlood]

Jumping into the fray


For those of us who play primarily on our laptops the CD requirements stink. I would rather have a second battery instead of the CD Drive for longer play. This has nothing to do with sub-standard equipment or piracy; I just want to play it on my system the way I have it optimally configured.

[Xargun]

Actually before I bought UV I had a friend scouring every hack site he knew for months and never saw a hint of the game. So I doubt that WitP will make it onto those sites - only RTS games show up there.

I also have been using computers before Hard Drives existed and I have several games in my collection with scratches and nicks on them that will not allow me to reinstall or even play the game with them and I have never dropped or done anything to them. They are nice concentric scratches like you would get if something scratched it while spinning - ie the CD player itself. Perhaps its your good luck, or my bad luck that sticks me with this problem, but at least I know I'm not alone.

But back to the main subject... I am not formenting piracy in any shape or form, but making a game where the CD MUST be in the drive to play AND companies that will not stand behind their products when CDs get damaged in normal use is in my opinion shoddy business. I cannot say whether or not Matrix is one of those, but I sincerely doubt they are - they have gone above and beyond with making WitP the great game it will be. I just have crappy luck with such things and with the time I expect to put into the game (and my crappy luck) I just have a feeling something will go wrong with the disc - especially if it must be in the drive to play.

Xargun

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Of course it also gets those that use blank cds for legitimate purposes, like keeping files, pictures etc.

Whaaa whaaa whaaa ... apply for your exception for such use. You seem to be so well versed in the law.

As far as your *rights* and the *laws* in place.

If the licence specifically states that you do not have the right under the terms of the licence to make a copy, you are violating the terms of the licence and must immediately destroy the media and documentation. This *has* help up in *both* Canada and the USA.

Btw:

for the Criminals that don't like my views, I really don't care too deeply that you (being Criminals) take offence. Why should my tax dollars pay to feed you in jail? Much easier to just take you out and hang ya by the neck until dead [:'(]

The pure fact that we even have to have these pathetic discussions in the first place says very little about the morals of todays society.

I absolutely 100% guarantee you, that regardless of the what the license says or does not say, I WILL make a back up copy, if I can, and safeguard my original and play from the backup, and dare anyone to do anything about it. However, with digital download, I doubt we will have to have a CD in the drive to play it. Which is good. I am one of those who does not always have a CD drive in the main working computer, which is, a notebook. But rest assured, the copy I buy will never run on more than one machine.....MY machine.

[Mr.Frag]

And I take exception that anyone that doesn't like your views is a criminal.
A criminal by definition is someone who breaks the law (right or wrong)
I have always respected copyright law, and it irks me that just because I may disagree with you, you call me a criminal.

You need to slow down when you read. At no point did I call you a criminal. I said specifically "btw: for the Criminals that don't like my views, ..."

If you want to take that as being you ... then I guess you are telling me you *are* one. If you are not, then you should not be taking offence because it specifically does not apply to you right? [;)]

[Hartley]

Copyright/piracy flamefests are so usenet circa 1996.


Yuck.

[ZOOMIE1980]

I assume not, since I have never attemted to pirate a game or anything else. But I copy stuff all the time, even my Windows XP pro CD. I'm more like the guy who seems to have trouble with his media. No matter what I do, the damned CD's end up with sort of a scratch, eventually. May take three or four years, but some end up damaged beyond use eventually, even when I try and take care. And expect this is one of those games I will be playing 10 years down the road. And IF I end up with a CD version, I WILL copy it, if I can, and store the original away safely and run with the backup, no matter what the license says about it.

[GBirkn]

ORIGINAL: Hartley

Copyright/piracy flamefests are so usenet circa 1996.


Yuck.

Amen. And for all of the flaming that gets expended, nothing ever changes. Honest people buy software honestly, dishonest people don't. Assorted people think that they've got the perfect legal or technical solution to the problem, but don't. The more things change . . .

[Mr.Frag]

regardless of the what the license says or does not say, I WILL make a back up copy

And why is this when Matrix offers replacement services? I understand your desire to protect yourself and have no issues with it personally provided it is within the terms of the licence.

Should Matrix choose to offer an alternative option and disallow your copy, that is completely within their right as publisher. You do not have a legal leg to stand on as long as Matrix has a replacement policy for defective media and you know it.

If you have ever bought anything through Matrix's download service, you can (a) get an extended download option for beyond 30 days if you choose and (b) order a backup cd from them and still be legal without having to resort to other means.

We can quote law back and forth for days and you and I both know that when it comes right down to it, 99.9% of these things are settled before they go to court with the pirate paying money and going away because they know they are in the wrong and can not afford the $1,000,000 in legal fees to attempt to slip through some loophole. It is about time that the various governments are stepping forward and dealing with this very serious issue that costs billions of dollars a year to the industry. In 5-10 years, software piracy will be a thing of the past. It takes time, but it will happen. As it sits right now, the follow on to Windows XP will not allow you to run without a valid key from Microsoft that you must call them up for. It is only a matter of time until all the groups merge together and use the same system and bring an end to this massive theft.

[Mark VII]

ORIGINAL: 2Stepper

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Personally, I don't buy the damaged cd thing. I have had computers since before hard disks were invented and I have never lost any software to damage. If you care about it, you'll take care of it. If not, you pay for a replacement.

I'm sure you'll find zero help if you walk into Blockbuster and say your DVD is scratched. They'll be more then happy to sell you a new one and thats about it. Why should software be *any* different then movies/music. You get it, it works. You trash it too bad/so sad but no one really cares.

Copy protection is mandatory these days, not an option. I will lay money that someone here will be posting the software on a service like eMule within the first week of it being released. It is a sad world full of evil people that we live in these days. Don't pretend otherwise.

Couldn't agree more Frag... you make a valid point.

OK, I have no problem with the copy protection method of requiring the dvd to play the game. It prevents illegal copying, thats good! Sometimes its a pain in the butt, like when I went on vacation once, brought my wife's laptop along but then leave the disk in my desk top at home. NO UV for a WEEK, including the 9 hour drive each way(oh, the humanity), but I got over it, my fault.

I think the original intention of the question about a damaged disk(for what ever reason), was could it be replaced without paying the original full $70+ again. A dvd costs less than a dollar to reproduce/burn per unit(not counting artwork, packageing, etc) provided its in the 10,000+unit range(maybe the WiTP dvd run will be less, so that "less than a dollar" cost will go up some). The rest of the $69+ is to recoup the costs of programing, research, testing, time spent on the project, support, and all the other "things" needed to put a game out that runs correctly(something that Matrix does well). The actual cost of reproducing a dvd disk(provided a large run) is nothing compared to the costs of producing the master disk!


Should I not be able return a damaged disk to Matrix, pay $5 to $10 for a new disk, and another $5 for shipping. I have already paid the original $70+ for the first disk and the "right" to play the game under the license, why pay the full price again if I am returning the original "damaged" disk? True, I have also yet to damage a DVD in my computer, but you never know what might happen.