Game crash

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:27 pm

It may run, but it will be a pretty painful on a 233MHz machine. There is slow, and then there is really slow and then there is painful ...

Can you list any games you bought recently and installed? A fair number include the DirectX installation code on the CD so you might already have it.

ZOOMIE1980 · Post by **ZOOMIE1980** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:47 pm

It is usually standard practice, that if a game requires a certain level of Direct X that a Direct X installation comes with the game on the installation CD. For those awaiting the boxed CD version are we saying that if it requires DirectX 9.x that a DirectX 9.x installation is not going to be on the CD??? That's pretty brutal...

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:24 pm

It is usually standard practice, that if a game requires a certain level of Direct X that a Direct X installation comes with the game on the installation CD. For those awaiting the boxed CD version are we saying that if it requires DirectX 9.x that a DirectX 9.x installation is not going to be on the CD??? That's pretty brutal...

As I have not seen anything, I really can't comment, but it seems to me a little silly to bundle the DirectX distribution with an Electronic download when it already comes from Windows Update or can be downloaded from http://www.microsoft.com/directx

It is one thing to throw stuff like Adobe PDF Reader and DirectX on CD, it just seems stupid to stick it inside a digital download and increase peoples download for nothing when they probably already have it.

*WE* are not saying anything. *I* am.

ZOOMIE1980 · Post by **ZOOMIE1980** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:36 pm

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It is usually standard practice, that if a game requires a certain level of Direct X that a Direct X installation comes with the game on the installation CD. For those awaiting the boxed CD version are we saying that if it requires DirectX 9.x that a DirectX 9.x installation is not going to be on the CD??? That's pretty brutal...

As I have not seen anything, I really can't comment, but it seems to me a little silly to bundle the DirectX distribution with an Electronic download when it already comes from Windows Update or can be downloaded from http://www.microsoft.com/directx

It is one thing to throw stuff like Adobe PDF Reader and DirectX on CD, it just seems stupid to stick it inside a digital download and increase peoples download for nothing when they probably already have it.

*WE* are not saying anything. *I* am.

No problem there. There is an entirely different standard on DD stuff than there is on a CD. Some CD users, like the poster above, have NO internet access of any kind at home. Anything needed to run the game or view the documentation should be on a CD. But if someone is using DD then it is a fair assumption they have no problem using Window's Update to get the latest Direct X, and a quick download from Adobe for the PDF reader....

Pier5 · Post by **Pier5** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:44 pm

I just updated DirectX directly from microsoft on my office computer, not that I would actually play WitP at work, of course. The download was 9.0b. What's with 9.0c? Are you sure?

Pier5

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:06 pm

http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulle ... ndows.mspx

One day Microsoft will actually have *current* content on their pages and not make people run around, but really, their goal is to FORCE everyone to use www.windowsupdate.com for *everything* to make sure you don't miss anything.

Pier5 · Post by **Pier5** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:58 pm

I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. Your link and download number leads to a security download relating to directplay. As far as I can tell, the following applies to DirectX 9.0c: (a) It will be(is?) released as part of SP2. (b) SP2 has not yet been released, it is still a beta (c) Some people have ripped DirectX 9.0c from SP2 beta, but they have more disclaimers than we want to think about and recommend installation in safe mode. NO THANKS!

I use my computers both at home and at work in matters relating to starvation avoidance. If DirectX 9.0c is required for operation of WitP and my observations above are correct, you'll just have to keep it for a while.[:(]

Pier5

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:05 pm

Nevermind, forgot I have SP2 installed here. The security fix also goes against .b

Pier5 · Post by **Pier5** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:18 pm

OK, I'll bite. So how did you install SP2 if it hasn't been released yet? Perhaps you are a universal beta tester.[;)]

More to the point, is or is not DirectX 9.0c required for satisfactory operation of WitP, or will 9.0b get it done?

Pier5

Marc von Martial · Post by **Marc von Martial** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:21 pm

ORIGINAL: Pier5

OK, I'll bite. So how did you install SP2 if it hasn't been released yet? Perhaps you are a universal beta tester.[;)]

More to the point, is or is not DirectX 9.0c required for satisfactory operation of WitP, or will 9.0b get it done?

Pier5

SP2 is available as a RC version (relesae candidate) since a few weeks allready.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodte ... eview.mspx

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:23 pm

More to the point, is or is not DirectX 9.0c required for satisfactory operation of WitP, or will 9.0b get it done?

Aye

OK, I'll bite. So how did you install SP2 if it hasn't been released yet? Perhaps you are a universal beta tester.

When you work for ... you tend to have to be beyond bleeding edge. RC2's been out for quite a while now. Feel free to dive in.

Topper · Post by **Topper** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:51 pm

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

More to the point, is or is not DirectX 9.0c required for satisfactory operation of WitP, or will 9.0b get it done?

Aye

I am now fairly confused:
1. I already have DX9.0b - Scenario 1 still crashes.
2. If this is a system problem, how come Scenario 3 runs OK?

Sorry, but to this boy it seems like a bug, not a driver/DX problem. Is there a fix coming or not?

Tophat · Post by **Tophat** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:15 pm

Wonderful,
I'm running WinME and see "NO" download for directX 9.0c or a 9.2??? Is directX9.0b going to work?
If anyone has a "direct link' for this,not a support pak update for XP users,please post it!
Or if I can pull the mythical directX 9.0c download out of the support pak for WinXp without muckingup my winMe machine.........feel free to post a scathingly derogatory reply!! I care not as long as it gets this darn game running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:35 pm

1. I already have DX9.0b - Scenario 1 still crashes.

You know if it is sound related (dx/driver) by renaming your sound directory to something else like oldsound and the problem goes away (problem #1). This happens in any scenario.

Scenario #1 ONLY crashes are completely unrelated. They happen when selecting a specific ship to view it within the game and are related to artwork not lining up with ships. (problem #2)

This came about due to new artwork coming in that renumbered everything and the tutorial scenario files not being updated to reflect the new numbers (focus was on the *real* scenarios). It happens to people (or so it would seem from the tester cross section) who have non-ATI video cards. Scenario #1 is a copy of #6 with some extra stuff thrown in to play with. You can verify this by loading scenario #6 (Marianas) and clicking on the same ship there and not crashing. Basically, certain types of video cards get annoyed when told to display nothing. Others don't care and simply display a blank picture.

To correct, you can either have some fun with the editor and update the bit map: value in the classes table (just remember to save to a slot in the user designed area), or avoid clicking on individual ships which brings up the picture or:

If you are a do-it-yourself'er, in the Scene directory:

rename wpc001.dat to wpc001.dat.bak (keep a copy in case you need for patch)
copy wpc006.dat to wpc001.dat

Problem fixed. (Unofficially) [;)]

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:38 pm

I'm running WinME and see "NO" download for directX 9.0c or a 9.2??? Is directX9.0b going to work?

Yep, works fine. I was talking to someone running XP.

Topper · Post by **Topper** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:52 pm

Thank you Mr. Frag. That explanation makes sense re: scenario 1.

BTW, I have an ATI 9800 Pro, so the video/art issue is not just non-ATI. I will apply your advice for a work-around until the official.

Topper

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:54 pm

BTW, I have an ATI 9800 Pro, so the video/art issue is not just non-ATI. I will apply your advice for a work-around until the official.

Hmm, amusing ... my 9800XT doesn't do it. I guess there was more to the change between the pro and the xt then ATI let on [:D]

ZOOMIE1980 · Post by **ZOOMIE1980** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:36 am

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

1. I already have DX9.0b - Scenario 1 still crashes.

You know if it is sound related (dx/driver) by renaming your sound directory to something else like oldsound and the problem goes away (problem #1). This happens in any scenario.

Scenario #1 ONLY crashes are completely unrelated. They happen when selecting a specific ship to view it within the game and are related to artwork not lining up with ships. (problem #2)

This came about due to new artwork coming in that renumbered everything and the tutorial scenario files not being updated to reflect the new numbers (focus was on the *real* scenarios). It happens to people (or so it would seem from the tester cross section) who have non-ATI video cards. Scenario #1 is a copy of #6 with some extra stuff thrown in to play with. You can verify this by loading scenario #6 (Marianas) and clicking on the same ship there and not crashing. Basically, certain types of video cards get annoyed when told to display nothing. Others don't care and simply display a blank picture.

To correct, you can either have some fun with the editor and update the bit map: value in the classes table (just remember to save to a slot in the user designed area), or avoid clicking on individual ships which brings up the picture or:

If you are a do-it-yourself'er, in the Scene directory:

rename wpc001.dat to wpc001.dat.bak (keep a copy in case you need for patch)
copy wpc006.dat to wpc001.dat

Problem fixed. (Unofficially) [;)]

Wow. Don't know what to think of this stuff.....

Glad I've got VisualStudio on my machine. When games crash I can at least bring up a debug session and look at the assembler code at the trap point. At least I'll know where the trap happens....driver, directX library, or application code.....

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:54 am

I rather doubt all the debugging tools in the world are going to tell you that a bit map pointer in a data file happens to be pointing to the wrong bit map. It's not a code problem, it's a data problem. Copy the file and get on with life.

ZOOMIE1980 · Post by **ZOOMIE1980** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:34 am

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I rather doubt all the debugging tools in the world are going to tell you that a bit map pointer in a data file happens to be pointing to the wrong bit map. It's not a code problem, it's a data problem. Copy the file and get on with life.

Well when traps occur they occur at a specific location and that location is not too hard to figure out, in general, where it is at. Of course the why it caused the break where it did is a different story. But bottom line, a missing file should not cause a hard trap, ever, but generate, at least, a diagnostic message indicating a data problem. Any code that attempts any sort of an I/O either returns a boolean value or a result code and all such calls should trap for failure and gracefully exit with a descriptive diagnostic message, not just fall over in a hard trap with a stack trace....

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